Xbox players are fed up with forced crossplay against PC gamers.

[DongBeetle]

pc console crossplay was never a 'popular request' in the way console crossplay was. Nobody was clamoring to play against pc cheaters lmao.

that's some revisionist history. All we ever wanted was to play cross play with our xbox and playstation friends. I'm not against PC being in the mix for shooters but any sort of mandatory matchmaking with PC players is just a horrible decision by developers.

Click to shrink...

"Revisionist history" lmfao come the fuck on. I'm PC primarily but my friends play on a variety of different systems. I know plenty of others in a similar situation. What game in particular do you think PC players are dependent on console players just to have someone to play with? Just cause your situation is one way doesn't mean that people don't have a variety of friends on different systems Jesus Christ lol

It should be opt in but I'd sooner quit games than go back to the days of "what system do you play on?"

 

[Yudoken]

I'm fed up with terrible anticheat and developers outright refusal to hire people to manually going through cheaters (includes evidence on social media and investigating) and aggressively banning them.
Whatever they're doing now is straight up not good enough, if your anti cheat, stats, replay and report system can't determine that someone cheats (especially the extremely obvious ones) after two matches it's not good enough. It's always the same thing, PUBG devs for years told the same lies and didn't do anything to seriously prevent cheating. Also banning their account, hardware and IP would be necessary to accomplish something.


If you only ban their accounts after several months they're just getting a new one and that's the issue, the punishment is just way too late and only needs a new account most of the time.

 

[IamAToast]

No. I am not fed up with it. Having Crossplay for some years now in COD. Its a blessing to play more modes and shorter matchmaking times in other games. I rarely get cheaters in my Lobbys. I dont want to go back to less players just because some people cheat or have advantage with m+k. (Which is wierd that PC Plaers say the same about Controller)

Making it an option is fine for me. But rather have it on by default. For example even when BF2042 is bad game with crossplay deactivated its not really playable on Xbox. At least with PC and PS5 you have games running in a short time.

 

[The Turbanator]

Console default and PC opt in splits the player pool in two, opt out splits it into four and the same for input based crossplay.

Click to shrink...

I fail to understand how these are functionally any different.

Opt-out: Crossplay (large), PS (small), XB (small), PC (small)
Opt-in: PS (medium), XB (medium), PC (medium), crossplay (small)

There's no logical way opt-in and opt-out have different splits of players unless you are arbitrarily changing the rules between them. Input-based pools at least has a logical rationale of gameplay influence, while platform-based pools is mostly a feel-good system that doesn't solve any problems.

 

[DongBeetle]

No. I am not fed up with it. Having Crossplay for some years now in COD. Its a blessing to play more modes and shorter matchmaking times in other games. I rarely get cheaters in my Lobbys. I dont want to go back to less players just because some people cheat or have advantage with m+k. (Which is wierd that PC Plaers say the same about Controller)

Click to shrink...

Yeah cross play is my new favorite thing in games

 

[Defect]

I matched against an obvious cheater on Saturday and sent him a message.

Fast forward to an hour ago and he responds with this cringe.



And I just happened to match with him again and he is STILL cheating.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

But that chart is from players who have looked up their stats in halo tracker.

Click to shrink...

Are you sure about this? Tracker Network stats normally cover the enter population.

I fail to understand how these are functionally any different.

Opt-out: Crossplay (large), PS (small), XB (small), PC (small)
Opt-in: PS (medium), XB (medium), PC (medium), crossplay (small)

There's no logical way opt-in and opt-out have different splits of players unless you are arbitrarily changing the rules between them. Input-based pools at least has a logical rationale of gameplay influence, while platform-based pools is mostly a feel-good system that doesn't solve any problems.

Click to shrink...

PC opt in means by default PS and XB players together, and flipping the option for crossplay puts you with PC players. The same for input based crossplay except you only get controller crossplay with console, and PC can swap between controller and kb/m.

 

[Firefly]

Are cheaters really that common or is there some bias from console players who attribute some highly skilled play to cheating?

Click to shrink...

They aren't. No one likes to play against cheaters. If it was as common as the vocal few make it sound there would be no one playing on PC.

 

[SteviaRelievingYa]

It wasn't since Halo 2 that I ever experienced blatant cheating on Xbox live. Now I've had multiple instances of obvious hackers in Halo Infinite. Shit's stupid.

 

[The Turbanator]

Are you sure about this? Tracker Network stats normally cover the enter population.


PC opt in means by default PS and XB players together, and flipping the option for crossplay puts you with PC players. The same for input based crossplay except you only get controller crossplay with console, and PC can swap between controller and kb/m.

Click to shrink...

Not sure why you decided to group in the separate consoles together but even going that way, that still doesn't change the overall splits. You also ignore that PC players should be able to not play with console players as well if the latter group gets the same option.

Opt-out: Crossplay (large), console (small-medium), PC (small)
Opt-in: Console (medium-large), PC (medium), crossplay (small)

This split still doesn't solve any issues, just slightly more fucks over PC players for no reason other than to shut up baseless whining. Input-based pools are still split only into two, which again makes that the most reasonable choice if anything.

 

[RisingStar]

I routinely opt-out of cross-play and will continue to do so. Then again, I barely play multiplayer as much as I used to these days anyway. I understand Xbox gamers here who don't have a choice with PC.

 

[DongBeetle]

Are cheaters really that common or is there some bias from console players who attribute some highly skilled play to cheating?

Click to shrink...

Depends on the game. I've only seen them in Warzone. None of my console only friends complain

 

[dskzero]

Yup. I always found it cringey that people kept championing Microsoft for crossplay. Microsoft only want it because it benefits them.

Click to shrink...

But it also benefits the players.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Not sure why you decided to group in the separate consoles together but even going that way, that still doesn't change the overall splits. You also ignore that PC players should be able to not play with console players as well if the latter group gets the same option.

Opt-out: Crossplay (large), console (small-medium), PC (small)
Opt-in: Console (medium-large), PC (medium), crossplay (small)

This split still doesn't solve any issues, just slightly more fucks over PC players for no reason other than to shut up baseless whining. Input-based pools are still split only into two, which again makes that the most reasonable choice if anything.

Click to shrink...

In the scenario I am describing opt in would not have the third crossplay section you listed. This is how Apex works where by default the consoles are grouped together, and if you have a PC player in your squad you get switched to PC crossplay.

Opt-in: Consoles, PC (with console players that squad up with PC)

Input based is similar to the above of course with only two pools of players, but presumably the console and PC with controller pool would constantly be the largest. The two options I prefer for 2042 would also not lead to buffing controller aim assist to near cheating levels.

 

[Ocirus]

I can definitely say I don't like console + PC crossplay for competitive modes/games. Even if you ignore the clear benefit of M&KB over controller, it's still a guarantee that you'll be dealing with a large amount of cheaters.

If crossplay didn't happen then the PC players would lose their easy fodder, and have to suffer playing against others on a more level playing field. This would just lower overall player number on PC. Without their easy fodder they'll stop playing. Can't have that.

 

[M. Wallace]

Cross play sucks in general. Rid of it.

 

[Oghuz]

But it also benefits the players.

Click to shrink...

Depends on who you ask. Certainly doesn't benefit me!

 

[DongBeetle]

I can definitely say I don't like console + PC crossplay for competitive modes/games. Even if you ignore the clear benefit of M&KB over controller, it's still a guarantee that you'll be dealing with a large amount of cheaters.

If crossplay didn't happen then the PC players would lose their easy fodder, and have to suffer playing against others on a more level playing field. This would just lower overall player number on PC. Without their easy fodder they'll stop playing. Can't have that.

Click to shrink...

Damn isn't it wild how multiplayer games on PC only started becoming popular after crossplay with console players lmao

 

[regenhuber]

Cross play sucks in general. Rid of it.

Click to shrink...

idk in CoD it has been pretty good for me and my buddies as we can now play together without being on the same system.

Can't really remember a single instance (MW2019, Cold War, Vanguard) where I went like "OK, that guy clearly cheated".
Don't really watch Killcams though, so not trying to negate the experiences other have.

That said, enabling it by default seems dumb. Let players decide during the onboarding process (brightness, language, inverted controls etc.) if they want it on or not.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

idk in CoD it has been pretty good for me and my buddies as we can now play together without being on the same system.

Can't really remember a single instance (MW2019, Cold War, Vanguard) where I went like "OK, that guy clearly cheated".
Don't really watch Killcams though, so not trying to negate the experiences other have.

That said, enabling it by default seems dumb. Let players decide during the onboarding process (brightness, language, inverted controls etc.) if they want it on or not.

Click to shrink...

What does COD regular use now input based? Is it strict?

 

[regenhuber]

What does COD use now input based? Is it strict?

Click to shrink...

Not input based iirc You can toggle crossplay on/off in the menus and that's it. Enabled by default though without asking you.

 

[kaisere]

The irony of this to me is that I wish I could turn off crossplay in PC shooters because controllers are basically auto-aim in some games.

 

[dskzero]

Depends on who you ask. Certainly doesn't benefit me!

Click to shrink...

It benefits me in the sense I can play with my friends on PC and (sometimes) on PS.

 

[sharkkiee]

The devs should give you the option to either cross play with xbox and ps4/5 or cross play with xbox ps4/5 and pc players, I have come across such blatant cheating in cod against pc players seeing me when I'm around a wall playing on my xbox...I always wanted cross play, I just wanted it against other console players and not pc.

 

[Zurick]

If hacking didn't exist and anti-cheat was perfect the option should still be there for people who won opt out. Plain and simple. If you wanna leave Cross play just because you feel like it, you should be able to. No developer should get to decide that for you. If you can pick your own pants in the morning you can choose if you wanna cross play. You don't need any reason whatsoever other than you want to and don't need to justify to anyone why you want the option.

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry did you just compare putting on your big boy pants to deciding if entire communities get to be miserable because you for no actual logical reason just don't want to play with them?

Gears 4 launched without Crossplay. It thrived well within the Xbox user base on the Xbox Platform, but on PC it was fucking dead. Flash forward over a year later and Gears 5 launched with Crossplay. It's still very easy to find matches no matter what platform you're on. It has input based matchmaking. Everybody wins.

Here's a nice quote during the time period about Gears 5 in relation to some changes they made.

"We're removing cross-play options across Gears 5. Currently, 40% of players have cross-play options disabled, which has a significant impact on player matchmaking time on both PC and console.

"We feel that the Xbox and PC equivalence has been achieved with a refreshed view, the ability to connect a mouse / keyboard to the Xbox, and reduced frame rates and input lag on the new Xbox console. It's about the same as making this change in 5, and I'm confident enough.

When given the choice, people become the worst version of themselves more often than not and use knee jerk reactions to explain things like "Why am I dying?" Not everything is cheating, or because of people being on PC. I'd wager a small fraction is related to either of these, but vocal minorities being what they are in gaming communities, shit spreads quick. Good on coalition for not listening to the "passionate, hardcore" fan base and instead using logic.

Factually if people are happy, they generally DON'T SAY ANYTHING. It's when people become unhappy that their voice becomes loud, angry and they create these insane call to arms over issues that either A) Don't exist or B) Are rare.

Crossplay should be not optional. Any attempt to argue this is without merit, logic, or reason.

Instead we should look for ways to make it work BETTER for ALL parties involved. No system is perfect, but this is better than where we were 4 years ago as a community of gamers.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Crossplay should be not optional. Any attempt to argue this is without merit, logic, or reason.

Instead we should look for ways to make it work BETTER for ALL parties involved. No system is perfect, but this is better than where we were 4 years ago as a community of gamers.

Click to shrink...

This is really a game dependent issue, so what works for BF does not for COD, or Splitgate/Halo, or Gears. I partially agree that crossplay should be the default but how the games handle player pools and mechanics should vary. For example, controller aim assist tracking in Warzone is extremely high and is not a net benefit if BF needs to do that to balance mixed input crossplay. As of now there is little to no tracking aa in BF, only snap on which only applies when you ads and slowdown. At the same time it does not make sense why options should be taken away from one platform to serve another.

 

[Zurick]

This is really a game dependent issue, so what works for BF does not for COD, or Splitgate/Halo, or Gears. I partially agree that crossplay should be the default but how the games handle player pools and mechanics should vary. For example, controller aim assist tracking in Warzone is extremely high and is not a net benefit if BF needs to do that to balance mixed input crossplay. As of now there is little to no tracking aa in BF, only snap on which only applies when you ads and slowdown. At the same time it does not make sense why options should be taken away from one platform to serve another.

Click to shrink...

Sounds like you can see the fixes needed here instead of making crossplay an option.

 

[5taquitos]

Encountering console players in Apex isn't possible unless a console player is also in your party. Gamepad players on PC are in the minority. Apex Legends and Destiny 2 are the only shooters I can think of that get crossplay right.

Click to shrink...

This isn't quite accurate. There are just two pools of players in Apex: all consoles and PC. If a console player parties with PC, they'll join PC lobbies. I get PC/console duos all the time when I play solo PC, you definitely don't need a console player in your party to get them.

It's still the best implementation imo.

 

[ConVito]

It still genuinely baffles me that the default for crossplay isn't to match up console players only with PC players who use controllers (and PC controller players with other PC controller players). There's no way that isn't possible. As a PC player who exclusively uses a gamepad myself, I've been begging for that feature for years.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Sounds like you can see the fixes needed here instead of making crossplay an option.

Click to shrink...

Yes, I am more disappointed that DICE did not follow the example from another EA studio out of the gate. Your Gears example makes sense since the developers took the time to balance the game between inputs and it is a relatively high ttk game. Players should not be blamed for negative reactions to mixed input crossplay though.

 

[Alexandros]

Depends on who you ask. Certainly doesn't benefit me!

Click to shrink...

The question is, are there enough players like you out there to warrant a crossplay policy change? Users in this thread say that turning off crossplay results in issues finding matches. This would seem to suggest that the overwhelming majority of players are either fine with the default setting or actually want crossplay. As of right now there is nothing to suggest that the anti-crossplay camp has any sort of momentum.

That said, options should be available to users. Matchmaking should prioritize filtering based on input method and players should have the necessary options to customize the experience to their liking.

 

[Zurick]

Yes, I am more disappointed that DICE did not follow the example from another EA studio out of the gate. Your Gears example makes sense since the developers took the time to balance the game between inputs and it is a relatively high ttk game. Players should not be blamed for negative reactions to mixed input crossplay though.

Click to shrink...

Any problem listed here outside of cheating is a design problem really. I'm going to beat a dead horse until I reawaken it, but crossplay just shouldn't be an option. It should be not only expected, but normalized.

Aim, Locomotion, Input, all of these things are design level problems with solutions that may just need implementation. In fact the overarching conversation about disabling/enabling/options shouldn't even be a conversation. It should be as natural and normal as simply turning your console on and playing with whomever is on your friends list platform considerations be damned.

The rest of your examples are just sliders, numbers and other tuning. All solvable, and nobody is going to be 1000% happy with it, such is life.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

Any problem listed here outside of cheating is a design problem really. I'm going to beat a dead horse until I reawaken it, but crossplay just shouldn't be an option. It should be not only expected, but normalized.

Aim, Locomotion, Input, all of these things are design level problems with solutions that may just need implementation. In fact the overarching conversation about disabling/enabling/options shouldn't even be a conversation. It should be as natural and normal as simply turning your console on and playing with whomever is on your friends list platform considerations be damned.

The rest of your examples are just sliders, numbers and other tuning. All solvable, and nobody is going to be 1000% happy with it, such is life.

Click to shrink...

Eh, it is a stretch to want games to change mechanically for input differences. There are limits to how much balancing you can make to controller and kb/m, and it always boils down to how the aim assist is handled. I just do not think forced mixed crossplay works for every game, but there are different ways to implement it so that is not an issue.

 

[Irrotational]

I honestly don't know why there is so much focus on input method still. Most of the big mass market games now have sbmm and that irons out all differences, player skill, input method, frame rate of display, resolution etc etc etc.

The only solution here, imho, is to do as much as possible to remove cheaters (who seem to be mainly on pc?). That solves the problem for everyone.

I want to play matches and occasionally kill people and occasionally get killed. I don't really care if someone kills me because they're better than me, or because they have a mouse, or whatever.

Note I'm talking about mainstream modes is super main stream games like cod PvP, halo, etc.

Even in bf, in console only mode, there's going to be a ridge line of snipers pointing at you, who kill you super quick...so if you cross play with pc nothing really changes there.


Slow, one shot one kill games might be a bit different.

 

[Rodelero]

I honestly don't know why there is so much focus on input method still. Most of the big mass market games now have sbmm and that irons out all differences, player skill, input method, frame rate of display, resolution etc etc etc.

Click to shrink...

That's sort of tolerable in a social mode, but it clearly defeats the purpose of a competitive one.

More over, different input methods distort the balance of the game. There are certain types of situation where the control methods are relatively even and others where they aren't remotely. That weakens the ability of SBMM to do its job because the disparity can be significantly greater on some maps than others, with some weapons than others, etc.

 

[bitcloudrzr]

I honestly don't know why there is so much focus on input method still. Most of the big mass market games now have sbmm and that irons out all differences, player skill, input method, frame rate of display, resolution etc etc etc.

Click to shrink...

Input methods and how a game is designed mechanically should not have to be changed to suit crossplay balance for forced mixed input. Many games implement input based or console default crossplay so it is not a one size fits all solution.

 

[The Shape]

Opt-in goes against entire premise of cross play. Either have cross play or don't. Opt-in is the worst solution of all possible ones.

Click to shrink...

Then don't. I always disable it when given the chance.

 

[degauss]

I'm fed up with terrible anticheat and developers outright refusal to hire people to manually going through cheaters (includes evidence on social media and investigating) and aggressively banning them.
Whatever they're doing now is straight up not good enough, if your anti cheat, stats, replay and report system can't determine that someone cheats (especially the extremely obvious ones) after two matches it's not good enough. It's always the same thing, PUBG devs for years told the same lies and didn't do anything to seriously prevent cheating. Also banning their account, hardware and IP would be necessary to accomplish something.


If you only ban their accounts after several months they're just getting a new one and that's the issue, the punishment is just way too late and only needs a new account most of the time.

Click to shrink...

If every single company, including those that are from large very PC focused developers (Valorant, CS:GO) who might make their game from the ground up for PC, and include the most robust intrusive, kernel level anti-cheat solution possible, still have cheats, how is there a solution for everyone?

Valve haven't solved cheating in 20 years of Steam with seemingly 'infinite money' and a massive staff, how can you expect your average development team, or even indie development team to be on top of cheating?

To me it's not so much "lazy devs putting out terrible anti-cheat solutions." It's a fundamental issue with the platform that's unsolvable.

At least with Windows 11 and trusted platform stuff there is a chance of a foreseeable future that a hardware ID ban could be permanent, or at least permanent until you buy a new motherboard.

I do however have a solution for us console players who haven't had to put up with this until now, separate us console players from PC lobbies by default. Hence the outcry, and threads like this on here, reddit, other forums, screaming for the default not to include PC.

 

[crimsonECHIDNA]

I don't know if you made that, but this does put a smile on my face.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I threw it together lol

 

[Iucidium]

PvE: on. PvP: opt-in

 

[krazen]

I honestly don't know why there is so much focus on input method still. Most of the big mass market games now have sbmm and that irons out all differences, player skill, input method, frame rate of display, resolution etc etc etc.

The only solution here, imho, is to do as much as possible to remove cheaters (who seem to be mainly on pc?). That solves the problem for everyone.

I want to play matches and occasionally kill people and occasionally get killed. I don't really care if someone kills me because they're better than me, or because they have a mouse, or whatever.

Note I'm talking about mainstream modes is super main stream games like cod PvP, halo, etc.

Even in bf, in console only mode, there's going to be a ridge line of snipers pointing at you, who kill you super quick...so if you cross play with pc nothing really changes there.


Slow, one shot one kill games might be a bit different.

Click to shrink...

I would argue on a ground level it does change the basics of a fight though, so saying SBMM automatically fixes it so everyone is the same is true…but on another aspect it does change some of the fundamentals of a fight. Keyboard/Mouse users have to deal with players who track em unnaturally strong while moving thanks to autoaim: consoles with players who've got great headshots and significantly better movement. On a one on one engagement I can often tell what someone is using by the way they move/shoot and I aint a pro-player.

There's also a discussion to be made that in certain games certain guns are more powerful depending on which group uses it.

Like someone mentioned it above Apex does it right: two pools and if a console player wants to play with his buddies he can go into PC world.

 

[Heynongman!]

Truly love the "I haven't seen a cheater so it must not be that big of a deal" posts.

With Halo being F2P the cheating is a serious problem and even 343 have said they're addressing it in a patch next month. But sure, it's definitely console players whining and not a real problem. This fuckin place sometimes…

 

[krazen]

Truly love the "I haven't seen a cheater so it must not be that big of a deal" posts.

With Halo being F2P the cheating is a serious problem and even 343 have said they're addressing it in a patch next month. But sure, it's definitely console players whining and not a real problem. This fuckin place sometimes…

Click to shrink...

Or when COD announces they banned 50k cheaters in one day. If you do the math and they just cheated in one match with 99 others players you're talking hundreds of thousands who got a match spoiled. If they were just playing for months you're talking about millions of players who hopped in a where they had no fair odds of winning.

 

[R dott B]

Meh I like crossplay and haven't encountered cheating yet so I hope it stays.

 

[Menchin]

I don't see why they can't just have a screen pop up when you first load up the game that explains what crossplay is and asks whether or not you want it enabled

 

[Sprat]

The only cheaters I've encountered recently were in last of us factions and that has no cross play.

Being shot and then down it was from beehive a wall out of bounds at the end of the map really is annoying but it only takes a minute to report

 

[astro]

People we're floating the idea of pumping aim assist to even the playing field in 2042. The problem there is it starts to feel unfair for PC players, while artificially bridging the skill gap between controller players, making encounters feel very "paper, rock, sciccsors".

I don't play Splitgate or Halo MP, but just because the advantage might swing the other way in certain instances doesn't really change anything. Input Based Crossplay or opting players out by default would still create a better, fairer experience.

Click to shrink...

I personally believe there are so many variables in play anyway across all consoles and PCs... frame rates, refresh rates, resolution, monitor width and fov, ping, home network, personal skill, personal experience, team balance, etc... that the benefits of cross play outweigh the negatives by quite a way.

Input devices really don't mean much, every person I know can do equally well ok both, if a player is good they will be good regardless.

Cheaters, in my experience, are nowhere near as widespread as many like to make them seem.

I have nothing against opt-in, opt-out, etc... but I really don't think it is as big of an issue as others do.

 

[Madrugador]

Cross Play is the key reason I play some of these games since me and my friends play on different systems :/

But I do feel these problems should be addressed of course (cheaters mainly).

 

[headspawn]

Meh I like crossplay and haven't encountered cheating yet so I hope it stays.

Click to shrink...

I've run into a few cheaters but even I still think ditching crossplay as a whole would be seriously stupid... what needs to have happen is the developers need to take it seriously, which clearly at release and right now; zero evidence they do. That's the part that needs to be fixed, get a proper anticheat and make accurate reporting people simple/fast.

 

[krazen]

I personally believe there are so many variables in play anyway across all consoles and PCs... frame rates, refresh rates, resolution, monitor width and fov, ping, home network, personal skill, personal experience, team balance, etc... that the benefits of cross play outweigh the negatives by quite a way.

Input devices really don't mean much, every person I know can do equally well ok both, if a player is good they will be good regardless.

Cheaters, in my experience, are nowhere near as widespread as many like to make them seem.

I have nothing against opt-in, opt-out, etc... but I really don't think it is as big of an issue as others do.

Click to shrink...

I don't get the benefits of crossplay though.
I get it across consoles since they are generally the same player-base that arbitrarily decided to buy one console over another.

PC players are a whole other animal with a different set of games they focus on (with obv. some bleed-over) and preferred control type.

If you're on console you don't need PC players, and the popular PC games have robust communities…not like Valorant aint one of the most popular games out there.

This feels to benefit the small group of players that want to play with their PC friends where you've already got an easy solution…keep em in the PC queue. Strip away their autoaim, let God be with them; no extra work for the dev's in balancing autoaim, etc. Everyone happy.