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B.C.

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Sep 28, 2018
1,240
They would have saved themselves billions in the mobile market though.

Twitch is well established, and immensely popular, to the point where people would rather watch Sea Of thieves on the service then use Mixer.

I just don't see the purpose of it
It simply comes down to...IT'S GROWING. It's the long game and its still very successful.
 

Dyashen

Member
Dec 20, 2017
5,201
Belgium
I really hope we get to hear more stuff about a potential new KI game. I don't feel super confident in it being a thing as of right now, but it would be logical considering the reboot was commercially successful.
 

Buddy1103

Member
Jan 8, 2019
540
I actually don't see that the standard input will change actually. I think that the market is set on controller, touch, and KB/M for input. Only other emerging markets in gaming like VR/AR has a real chance on changing that area for input. I can understand why FPS games have gotten stale from an input point of view and that is because a lot of the input has primarily been the same and the experiences you have are the same. Some risks are being taken like a Mirror's Edge or something but it's really what indies and such do in that regard as they can do those types of risks to stand out. It's like changing "A" to jump in a 2D side scroller (something that I'm making which changes input for alot of things). It's hard to do those things because of how established it is. I do think we will get some differentiated experiences that make gaming seem new...we just gotta see what devs come up with.

I know the market is set on standard input, and it hurts lol. Everytime i start a new shooter game its always the same dot in the middle, 2 or 3 buttons for some abilities, and melee/throwables. Fortnite, arguably the most popular game right now, is even more basic than that its just one dot and buttons to pick up/switch weapons or switch/edit build pieces. whichever company starts with a new standard input will benefit from it greatly imo, the gaming world is inevitably going to head in the direction of something in the vein of ready player one, and theres no kbm or controller there. Now im not saying we need that tech now but something like a AAA game made with a modified oculus rift controller would be amazing. That first step needs to be taken.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,946
I don't get the sediment of ditching Mixer because it'll never be as big as X. It doesn't have to be and it's growing every quarter.
 

predrag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
519
Reading this news about Xbox Live XDK, what are chances that MS buys Unity? It would be a perfect fit for their strategy.
 

knightmawk

Member
Dec 12, 2018
7,538
No, it's not a possibility that's seriously considered by most people because of Kojima's ties to Sony, but it might make more sense than it initially appears, depending on what kind of deal MS offer them. That acquisition would be tantamount to smashing a PS4 on stage, it fits one of Microsoft's stated criteria for acquisitions (it's a studio centered around a strong, unique individual), and they even have some history together (MS published the PC version of the first MGS back in the day). Again, it's not a likely possibility at all, but it's a possibility nonetheless, and one that's fun to consider.
WHAT IF

MS BUYS KOJIMA PRODUCTIONS?
MOON. IT'S AN ASTRONAUT

sorry i'm drunk

Definitely don't think this will happen, Kojima has no reason to sell. He has more money and creative freedom than ever.

But I could imagine Microsoft funding an exclusive other than Death Stranding from Kojima sometime in the next generation.
 

XVerdena

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,923
Twitch is owned by Amazon, and Google owns YouTube, ms probably sees these two giants as competitors, especially in the future with xCloud, that's why they're trying to build their streaming platform with mixer.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,221
They would have saved themselves billions in the mobile market though.

Twitch is well established, and immensely popular, to the point where people would rather watch Sea Of thieves on the service then use Mixer.

I just don't see the purpose of it
You can't prove that last point without knowing that people moved from mixer to twitch whe. All that has happened in the past year is more people using Mixer. You are making some assumpiontions. While twitch is the more popular, the E3 streams that MS puts on shows that millions of people will use the service. Twitch may be have the numbers but it doesn't mean MS should stop building their own so that they don't rely on Twitch and get their own audience that they can monetize. And MS knows how to monetize the people who are in their ecosystem.
 

Rodeo Clown

Member
Dec 14, 2017
1,241
And this is why Gears can't be rebooted mechanically.
Do people (that actually play Gears of War) really think the mechanics need to be rebooted? They're great and there's still nothing like Gears on the market. My gripes with Gears 4 mostly have to do with how safe they played the campaign and the pay-to-win mechanics in Horde. It seems like they're listening to that campaign feedback and hopefully they're shedding the blind boxes, too.
 

zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,221
Reading this news about Xbox Live XDK, what are chances that MS buys Unity? It would be a perfect fit for their strategy.
I honestly though Microsoft would buy Unity after they bought Xamarin... But I've changed my tune over the years seeing that MS will partner in some areas still.
 
Apr 6, 2018
1,859
Just meant that as in "all Microsoft Studios games", but good try :)
"We were on the verge of greatness.
We were this close"
And this is why Gears can't be rebooted mechanically.
IMHO 5 looks a game that rebuilt all the system instead of build on the previous iterations like from 1 to 4. But we heard too much bullshit from non gears people about the game being not on par with the other tps and so on, those people needs to watch the gears esport scene before quoting tlou, the division or the tomb raider reboot as modern tps
I'm interested in watching how melee weapons could counter the gnasher in the short distance and how the modified weapon will impact the game. I'm also curious about the crouched walking that kait used in the end of e3 trailer in the kitchen full of "swarmed" dee-bees
They would have saved themselves billions in the mobile market though.

Twitch is well established, and immensely popular, to the point where people would rather watch Sea Of thieves on the service then use Mixer.

I just don't see the purpose of it
But they would lost billions from gaming, azure and now surface.
Mobile grew slowly and burned a shitton of money, from what we know mixer is small but growing at a fast rate and remains productive
I really hope we get to hear more stuff about a potential new KI game. I don't feel super confident in it being a thing as of right now, but it would be logical considering the reboot was commercially successful.
it wasn't a reboot, it was a direct sequel without the "3" so it wouldn't scare newcomers. But the characters storylines are direct sequels from the previous ones.
You can't prove that last point without knowing that people moved from mixer to twitch whe. All that has happened in the past year is more people using Mixer. You are making some assumpiontions. While twitch is the more popular, the E3 streams that MS puts on shows that millions of people will use the service. Twitch may be have the numbers but it doesn't mean MS should stop building their own so that they don't rely on Twitch and get their own audience that they can monetize. And MS knows how to monetize the people who are in their ecosystem.
This.
Plus msft e3 was the most watched event on both mixer and twitch, it means that both system could be successful and cohexist
Do people (that actually play Gears of War) really think the mechanics need to be rebooted? They're great and there's still nothing like Gears on the market. My gripes with Gears 4 mostly have to do with how safe they played the campaign and the pay-to-win mechanics in Horde. It seems like they're listening to that campaign feedback and hopefully they're shedding the blind boxes, too.
I've read tons of bullshit from gears newcomers about how the gears mechanics are last gen and so on.
 

Deltoid

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
212
London, UK
Do people (that actually play Gears of War) really think the mechanics need to be rebooted? They're great and there's still nothing like Gears on the market. My gripes with Gears 4 mostly have to do with how safe they played the campaign and the pay-to-win mechanics in Horde. It seems like they're listening to that campaign feedback and hopefully they're shedding the blind boxes, too.
definitely not, it's just about modernising the game around the mechanics. confident in gears 5 to achieve that.
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
So I'm thinking...with the GP model does it make sense to launch 3 new big games at once (Halo Infinite, Forza, KI2)? I'm wondering if MS should space those out by 2-3 weeks.
 

Klobrille

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,360
Germany
So I'm thinking...with the GP model does it make sense to launch 3 new big games at once (Halo Infinite, Forza, KI2)? I'm wondering if MS should space those out by 2-3 weeks.
Releasing multiple of your big guns during the same time period doesn't make any sense - no matter if on Game Pass or not. The only exception is a console launch of course.
 

Sexyphobe

Banned
Aug 14, 2018
828
Cmon guys..lets admit it
As a fan of microsoft i this time I find it hard to say that fun as it may be CD3 is certainly not the title that MS needs to raise its brand in the gaming world. It can entertain those who already have a microsoft console and a gamepass subscribction but it would have been a failure out of that service and certainly will not move in particular any hardware sale.
I think that consciously microsoft has been found between the anvil and the hammer. No longer able to give up the exit of the title because ..they had to show that the "power of the cloud" was not a bullshit ... and also because after the cancellation of scalebound..the closure of the lionhead studio and the cancellation of the old fable....also renounce at Crackdown3 would have been a kind of disaster. So they accepted all the title development problems and here we are .. but certainly this is not the AAA that microsoft users are looking for
Outside of brand recognition, what new stuff did Spider-Man bring to the table beyond a refined, fun experience anyone could jump right into? Why can't Crackdown have that same power? Why does Crackdown have to have the unfair expectations of innovating the entire industry?
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Do people (that actually play Gears of War) really think the mechanics need to be rebooted? They're great and there's still nothing like Gears on the market. My gripes with Gears 4 mostly have to do with how safe they played the campaign and the pay-to-win mechanics in Horde. It seems like they're listening to that campaign feedback and hopefully they're shedding the blind boxes, too.

I think they do. Bare in mind I'm coming from a campaign perspective, not multiplayer, but a typical strictly linear stop and pop shooter really isn't necessarily enough these days, not to reach that GOTY consensus or classic tier height.

We've had over a decade and several releases of that gameplay, so it's time to mix things up. Give us more exploration, wider environments, more intricate level design, more verticality, more mobility options, upgrades, new gameplay mechanics to mix things up, unique vehicles, improved AI, improved characters and story and things of that nature. If it's just more of the same, expect another Gears 4 type reception.
 
Apr 6, 2018
1,859
Outside of brand recognition, what new stuff did Spider-Man bring to the table beyond a refined, fun experience anyone could jump right into? Why can't Crackdown have that same power? Why does Crackdown have to have the unfair expectations of innovating the entire industry?
Well, maybe CD3 will remain one of the most important game of the generation by a tech point of view
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,740
The Milky Way
Do people (that actually play Gears of War) really think the mechanics need to be rebooted? They're great and there's still nothing like Gears on the market. My gripes with Gears 4 mostly have to do with how safe they played the campaign and the pay-to-win mechanics in Horde. It seems like they're listening to that campaign feedback and hopefully they're shedding the blind boxes, too.
The actual gameplay mechanics are great and feel way better than any other third person shooters I can think of. They just feel right. But it's everything else in Gears 4 that is still a little wooden and stuck in last gen, from the ultra linear environments to the animations. But from the footage we've seen of Gears 5 it's obvious these areas have been addressed. Really can't wait to see more of it.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
On the topic of getting big Twitch streamers to play their games, I'm sure MS could do more, but publishers usually only pay streamers for 1-3 hours of play. Outside of that, they can only do so much to keep streamers playing those games.

They can't force top streamers to play those games.

So, they can do what they can to push games on Twitch, but streamers play what gets them views, not what a publisher is pushing.
 

Sexyphobe

Banned
Aug 14, 2018
828
Do people (that actually play Gears of War) really think the mechanics need to be rebooted? They're great and there's still nothing like Gears on the market. My gripes with Gears 4 mostly have to do with how safe they played the campaign and the pay-to-win mechanics in Horde. It seems like they're listening to that campaign feedback and hopefully they're shedding the blind boxes, too.
Nope, don't fix what isn't broken. Gears plays perfectly fine as is.
 

Dimple

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,672
Reading this news about Xbox Live XDK, what are chances that MS buys Unity? It would be a perfect fit for their strategy.

Would make a ton of sense on the enterprise side, especially with their moves into open source and how they're planning on having dev tools being accessed via the cloud (like Havok for example), only problem is Unity's been shooting itself in the foot recently by messing around with Spatial OS, i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of devs have migrated over to unreal because of that fiasco.
 

Remo Williams

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 13, 2018
4,769
Definitely don't think this will happen, Kojima has no reason to sell. He has more money and creative freedom than ever.

But I could imagine Microsoft funding an exclusive other than Death Stranding from Kojima sometime in the next generation.

Like I said, I don't think it will happen, but at the same time, I'd be surprised if MS didn't approach them with an offer, they're one of the few remaining high profile independent studios.
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
Releasing multiple of your big guns during the same time period doesn't make any sense - no matter if on Game Pass or not. The only exception is a console launch of course.
Well that's what I'm asking — does the GP model override the fact that it's a console launch. Because with GP, it holds double true that you want to space your releases.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,740
The Milky Way
I think they do. Bare in mind I'm coming from a campaign perspective, not multiplayer, but a typical strictly linear stop and pop shooter really isn't necessarily enough these days, not to reach that GOTY consensus or classic tier height.

We've had over a decade and several releases of that gameplay, so it's time to mix things up. Give us more exploration, wider environments, more intricate level design, more verticality, more mobility options, upgrades, new gameplay mechanics to mix things up, unique vehicles, improved AI, improved characters and story and things of that nature. If it's just more of the same, expect another Gears 4 type reception.
Yes, I think the point is that the core gameplay mechanics still feel amazing compared to other cover shooters, but I agree they need to focus on all the areas you have listed too, but ensure they keep that Gears feel. The Gears 5 trailer suggests that are going for a wide linear approach this time with a larger variety of weapons including melee, and improved characters, narrative and animation As long as they don't add stuff in for the sake of it to tick the 'modern AAA' box. If there's a load of crafting nonsense I might die a little bit inside.

I also don't want to see an obsession with chasing GOTY awards, that's never been what Gears has been about, it's almost the anti-GoTY with its Verhoeven-ness. I don't want Oscar bait games, or pressing Square to "whatever" because my son is having a tantrum.
 

Hurting Bomb

Member
Oct 28, 2017
932
Do people (that actually play Gears of War) really think the mechanics need to be rebooted? They're great and there's still nothing like Gears on the market. My gripes with Gears 4 mostly have to do with how safe they played the campaign and the pay-to-win mechanics in Horde. It seems like they're listening to that campaign feedback and hopefully they're shedding the blind boxes, too.
No, the mechanics definitely do not need rebooting, they can try and change many things in the game but not the mechanics!
 

Deleted member 19924

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,543
When I say Gears can't be rebooted mechanically, I strictly mean the cover system, the act of going in and out of cover. You can change everything around it but the cover system must remain largely the same or you can say goodbye to that moderately sized yet incredibly dedicated MP community.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Yes, I think the point is that the core gameplay mechanics still feel amazing compared to other cover shooters, but I agree they need to focus on all the areas you have listed too, but ensure they keep that Gears feel. The Gears 5 trailer suggests that are going for a wide linear approach this time with a larger variety of weapons including melee, and improved characters, narrative and animation As long as they don't add stuff in for the sake of it to tick the 'modern AAA' box. If there's a load of crafting nonsense I might die a little bit inside.

I also don't want to see an obsession with chasing GOTY awards, that's never been what Gears has been about, it's almost the anti-GoTY with its Verhoeven-ness. I don't want Oscar bait games, or pressing Square to "whatever" because my son is having a tantrum.

There isn't really any such thing as an Oscar bait game, only games that are incredible and better resonate with gamers and critics alike (hence win more awards). Gears also already was always a cinematic story driven game (and early in the franchise also part of those GOTY conversations), it's just that it's story was never that poignant and its characters not particularly deep or well written, and I don't think that was necessarily intentional either.

Also, sometimes you need those slower, expositional moments (which the Gears franchise already has) in order to flesh out the narrative and characters. If they're going for a deeper narrative with more complex characters in Gears 5, simply put, expect more exposition.
 

Rodeo Clown

Member
Dec 14, 2017
1,241
Yes, I think the point is that the core gameplay mechanics still feel amazing compared to other cover shooters, but I agree they need to focus on all the areas you have listed too, but ensure they keep that Gears feel. The Gears 5 trailer suggests that are going for a wide linear approach this time with a larger variety of weapons including melee, and improved characters, narrative and animation As long as they don't add stuff in for the sake of it to tick the 'modern AAA' box. If there's a load of crafting nonsense I might die a little bit inside.

I also don't want to see an obsession with chasing GOTY awards, that's never been what Gears has been about, it's almost the anti-GoTY with its Verhoeven-ness. I don't want Oscar bait games, or pressing Square to "whatever" because my son is having a tantrum.
I don't think they need to chase awards, but Gears used to be in those conversations with the original trilogy and there's a way to put it back on that level without changing the base mechanics or having Kait craft new chainsaws for her lancer. Based on what little we've seen, if Gears 5 tells more a personal story and encourages some level of exploration, I think that's the kind of change the series needed. (I also think they could borrow some of the challenge options from Judgment and be better for it.)
 

peepers

Member
Dec 10, 2017
707
Biscay
When (not if) they merge gold and pass they should just offer two tiers of the service, the base one would be equivalent to what we have now and the higher one would include the ultimate editions of said games, as in all DLC included as well as the possible expansions.
 

Hudsoniscool

Banned
Jun 5, 2018
1,495
Rare streams their games on Twitch, Mixer and YouTube. And often their Twitch streams has the least amount of viewers (YouTube has by far the most). But I agree, Microsoft should keep streaming to Twitch and YouTube too.

Their special event Mixer streams are good, they attract a good amount of people (100k+ concurrent viewers during E3's and speciale events) and the service will continue to grow if they keep supporting it. I'm kinda surprised by the growth. When the website was called Beam, most top streams had around 100 viewers. Now it's not uncommon to see many 1000+ viewers streams at the same time.
I recently started broadcasting and it's tuff getting views but mixed is definitely growing. I've seen a few people in the 5-6k range and I saw onespanish guy who streams Fortnite have 17k. Mixer is growing fast. Microsoft should stick with it.
 

Delroy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,772
Seattle
It's not a vs thing.

Mixer lacks the reach that Twitch has that MS sorely need for thier plans.

For efficiency and speed, I think MS are best just using Twitch for all streaming related plans

Why not both? And YouTube, and whatever other platform / method of communication they can use to reach as many people as they can, on their preferred platforms? I don't know how much more effort it really takes them to set up those other streams, but I can't imagine it's a terrible headache for a company like Microsoft and they obviously know whether it's worth it or not.
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,822
I really hope we get to hear more stuff about a potential new KI game. I don't feel super confident in it being a thing as of right now, but it would be logical considering the reboot was commercially successful.

My expectation... And it's only a guess... Is that they are making a second KI but they'll make the game complete from the get go.

MS only halfway played around with a la carte purchases and the issue with seasons is while you are dedicating lower resources for each slice, you are spending more over the course of development of all seasons while having a net negative impact on product quality (the weird story mode mashup as an example)

How big of a game they would be going for is something I am not so sure of... Or if Iron Galaxy will be doing it, despite being fairly quiet since season 3 release

Also the whole first game not being on game pass is a curious thing, but that could be how the game works with all the random secondary downloads
 

Deleted member 36493

User requested account closure
Member
Dec 19, 2017
4,982
There are other ways to innovate gameplay with Gears. Fighting a Swarmak with a Mech Suit in 4 was dope. Controlling a Brumak in 2 was cool. The vehicle sections in 1 were great. The gameplay just needs to be more varied, the core gameplay can remain the same.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
It's not a vs thing.

Mixer lacks the reach that Twitch has that MS sorely need for thier plans.

For efficiency and speed, I think MS are best just using Twitch for all streaming related plans

That's quite risky when it's owned by Amazon, who are making moves that may potentially make them a direct competitor in the future - even moreso than Sony.
 
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bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,659
When (not if) they merge gold and pass they should just offer two tiers of the service, the base one would be equivalent to what we have now and the higher one would include the ultimate editions of said games, as in all DLC included as well as the possible expansions.

I'm 100% for this.
 

Femto0

Banned
Apr 28, 2018
2,591
I don't think Kojima wants to bought or be part by/of huge company anymore after konami drama. He likes his freedom and he is looking to work on animes and mangas. Does Ms want to invest on that markets?
 

Sexyphobe

Banned
Aug 14, 2018
828
There isn't really any such thing as an Oscar bait game, only games that are incredible and better resonate with gamers and critics alike (hence win more awards). Gears also already was always a cinematic story driven game (and early in the franchise also part of those GOTY conversations), it's just that it's story was never that poignant and its characters not particularly deep or well written, and I don't think that was necessarily intentional either.

Also, sometimes you need those slower, expositional moments (which the Gears franchise already has) in order to flesh out the narrative and characters. If they're going for a deeper narrative with more complex characters in Gears 5, simply put, expect more exposition.
Define "better". I'd say Gears, outside of maybe 1 and Judgement, always had a great story filled with memorable characters. Maybe not ultra deep, but character moments like Dom's decent into hopelessness in 2 and 3, or Cole Train realizing how much has changed since the war started in 3 were extremely well done.
 

Sexyphobe

Banned
Aug 14, 2018
828
I don't think Kojima wants to bought or be part by/of huge company anymore after konami drama. He likes his freedom and he is looking to work on animes and mangas. Does Ms want to invest on that markets?
Maybe he should finally just partner with Sony Pictures if he wants to make a movie so badly.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,564
Well Sea of Thieves revival (at least on Twitch) is about to come to a crash most likely. Allowing Xbox users to opt out of cross play with PC will decimate the user base on PC and the streamers will leave.

I don't think this will Happen. Most players won't bother to change their settings. and even if they do lobbies aren't all that large, so I don't there will be much trouble filling them with kbm players.
 
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Deleted member 47654

user requested account closure
Banned
Sep 10, 2018
2,612
Cmon guys..lets admit it
As a fan of microsoft i this time I find it hard to say that fun as it may be CD3 is certainly not the title that MS needs to raise its brand in the gaming world. It can entertain those who already have a microsoft console and a gamepass subscribction but it would have been a failure out of that service and certainly will not move in particular any hardware sale.
I think that consciously microsoft has been found between the anvil and the hammer. No longer able to give up the exit of the title because ..they had to show that the "power of the cloud" was not a bullshit ... and also because after the cancellation of scalebound..the closure of the lionhead studio and the cancellation of the old fable....also renounce at Crackdown3 would have been a kind of disaster. So they accepted all the title development problems and here we are .. but certainly this is not the AAA that microsoft users are looking for
Who cares? The AAA that Microsoft users are looking for is Gears 5, i want other kind of AAA experience from Crackdown 3
 
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