Nah, doesn't sexualize teenage girls like the Persona games so the fanbase will have nothing to grasp on to.
Will SMTV be the break out hit for the series that Persona 5 was?
- Thread starter starfoxxxy
- Start date
I haven't played A or DS but I do think there's something different with IV does it's cast compared to Nocture or SJ. They still follow the moral alignments but the way they interact with the protagonist is far more friendly and the way they are always around really hampers the atmosphere.
Persona was never SMT in Japan.
That was a Atlus West thing because they wanted all the games under one name.
Ever since Persona 4 Golden released on the Vita Atlus West has kept the names of the games the same as the JPN versions.
As others have said P5's success wasn't just its own, the series has been building momentum since P3 and SMT doesn't really have that currently. I could see it being more of a P4/P4G equivalent and build a lot of goodwill and brand recognition, with the next game being a potential p5-like breakout.
I think it will be, but they'll need to market it a lot.
Also, it needs to sell more than STRANGE JOURNEY (NDS).
Also, it needs to sell more than STRANGE JOURNEY (NDS).
If marketable characters are a factor, why does Dark Souls have 27 million sales and Persona has 15 million. They are both very different franchises, but they market their games for different audiences.
SMT IV was popular because Atlus had their marketing game on.
SJ/Redux didn't sell successfully because Alus did jack shit. If there was a dub and advertise the game towards an international audience, considering you know, SJ does have an international cast. It would have sold more!
Nocturne didn't grab attention in the past because it was too niche of a JRPG at that time. For Noctunre HD, Atlus pushed the marketing, but due to mishaps it didn't do well. It's no understatement that if the re-release had no technical issues, introduced the desired QoL features from the start, and if they were nice enough to not removed the original credits, and sold it at a reasonable price. Nocturne HD would have sold better!
SMT IV Apoc had marketable characters but didn't do as well as SMT IV. In fact, the numbers were close to OG SJ and that game didn't have the pandering levels Apoc's did.
Source: Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne HD Remaster Sells Over 250k Copies in Japan and Asia, Persona Central April 2021
All it boils down to is competence and putting more love into the series.
SMT V release date is looming closer and I am questioning why there aren't any trailers for the international audience. If the dub is behind on schedule and they plan to release it later as a patch, at least they could do is still promote the game.
I can't see the main character design being very popular outside of Japan. I hope to be wrong because it's certainly unique, but Persona 5 has a cast that's more easily relatable to westerners I think.
If marketable characters are a factor, why does Dark Souls have 27 million sales and Persona has 15 million. They are both very different franchises, but they market their games for different audiences.
SMT IV was popular because Atlus had their marketing game on.
SJ/Redux didn't sell successfully because Alus did jack shit. If there was a dub and advertise the game towards an international audience, considering you know, SJ does have an international cast. It would have sold more!
Nocturne didn't grab attention in the past because it was too niche of a JRPG at that time. For Noctunre HD, Atlus pushed the marketing, but due to mishaps it didn't do well. It's no understatement that if the re-release had no technical issues, introduced the desired QoL features from the start, and if they were nice enough to not removed the original credits, and sold it at a reasonable price. Nocturne HD would have sold better!
SMT IV Apoc had marketable characters but didn't do as well as SMT IV. In fact, the numbers were close to OG SJ and that game didn't have the pandering levels Apoc's did.
Source: Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne HD Remaster Sells Over 250k Copies in Japan and Asia, Persona Central April 2021
All it boils down to is competence and putting more love into the series.
SMT V release date is looming closer and I am questioning why there aren't any trailers for the international audience. If the dub is behind on schedule and they plan to release it later as a patch, at least they could do is still promote the game.
I use to follow r/megaten when smt 4a, strange journey redux, devil survivor 1/2 rereleaes came out and it felt like atlus usa didn't really try to market the games to anyone but existing fans and smt 5 feels similar with how anemic the marketing has been
That's exactly it and I've seen it across the web.
Compare AtlusWest's trailer output for P5 to SMT V/Nocturne HD/SJR/13 Sentinals/Etrian Odessey etc. There's a big gap of difference, enough proof of their bias.
It's getting put out in front of a massive and very receptive audience. I don't know if it will quite go "mainstream" in the way that Persona has, but I do think it'll handily outperform past SMT games.
The big difference is that Persona is focused as a multimedia franchise and SMT is not.
You have Persona video games, spin offs, anime, manga, merchandising, plays...
those things come with popularity. just look at nier. it sold like shit but then nier automata blew up and now square is milking it from all directions
I am talking about the main releases. Compare the levels of marketing of P5/P5R with other titles. Atlus didn't expect P5 would break out huge numbers and it did. Why not pour into the same attitude for their other IPs?
I think the idea would be to go for something a little bit more oblique to the original name – something a little bit more market-focused. Kind of like how Drag-On Dragoon became Drakengard.
Atlus seemingly tried to do that with Persona 1, by trying to brand SMT as "Revelations", but I'm not sure if that's the best name.
Because Persona 5 was already planned to be milked as hell from its conception.
It is the difference between planning a franchise as multimedia and improvising a success.
That's why Persona 5 has things like waifus, easy-to-cosplay characters, and other features that Persona 5 lacks. Why do you think Persona introduces characters like Teddy and Morgana?
Persona is a more well-known name that carries a bit more prestige and hype with it. I don't think that SMT is big or as anticipated as people think it might be. Even if the game is popular and it's a breakout game for the series, it's not going to even come close to the numbers of what Persona 5 / Persona 5 Royal put up. It's honestly an unfair comparison.
Huh, didn't realize that. Well then that makes the pool of sales even smaller :P
There is no chance it gets over a 90 just due to reviews seemingly haven gotten harder over the last few years, and due to there not being quite the same selection bias. The Persona reputation for being super long means that only reviewers that are super interested / loved previous games in the game will be selected to review for major publications.
SMT also has a problem with not being a typical JRPG. It gets lumped in with linear games with strong casts and central narratives and judged by those standards, even though it isn't any of those things.
There isn't even the slightest doubt at all that SMT5 will outsell Persona 3 or the PS2 version of Persona 4. It isn't even remotely in question. Persona 4 Golden (no SMT in the Western title) is specifically where Persona blew up.
SMT also has a problem with not being a typical JRPG. It gets lumped in with linear games with strong casts and central narratives and judged by those standards, even though it isn't any of those things.
I know what you are saying (as you are implying a mainline game not a spinoff like persona is)
but...
persona 3/4 were still SMT games :P
I don't think persona 5 was ever actually tagged as a SMT game though but just as persona 5.
I bring this up, because it's far more interesting to entertain the idea of if this game could outsell persona 3 or 4. Though persona 4 on PC alone sold over a million copies so...
but at the same time... would those copies count?
Save 40% on Persona 4 Golden on Steam
A coming of age story that sets the protagonist and his friends on a journey kickstarted by a chain of serial murders.store.steampowered.com
SMT has been stripped from the steam release completely so arguably those copies of persona 4 wouldn't count at all, they are no longer SMT games :P.
it was also stripped from the Vita release which really just leaves the ps2 copy for sales count as a SMT game :P
meanwhile every release of persona 3 kept the SMT tag on it even the psp version.
So there's a question... what's the odds SMT5 can outsell the versions of persona 3 or persona 4 that were labeled as SMT games
There isn't even the slightest doubt at all that SMT5 will outsell Persona 3 or the PS2 version of Persona 4. It isn't even remotely in question. Persona 4 Golden (no SMT in the Western title) is specifically where Persona blew up.
Well that's obvious, but it doesn't justify the lack of marketing for their other IPs. They complain about why those titles (SMT, Radiant Historia, DeSu...) don't sell well and then they go "Oh I know let's add a waifu, more lolis, and add a dash of wish fulfillment" and BONK! The re-release does poor numbers!
The real reason is that they lack focus.
1. Know what audience is attracted to what genres
2. Not sell a game when a console is dying
3. Have better quality assurance
4. Do not rush development
I don't believe SMT V will reach P5 levels of success, but if Atlus want SMT to do well they seriously need to revise their marketing strategy and be more committed to doing so.
I'm sorry but no
it has none of the style of persona, I love anime and feel like over the years I've gotten a pretty good understanding of what is palatable in the West and what isn't. Shin megami has a self seriousness to it's style that is going to alienate a lot of people in the West, far more generic in its representation
it has none of the style of persona, I love anime and feel like over the years I've gotten a pretty good understanding of what is palatable in the West and what isn't. Shin megami has a self seriousness to it's style that is going to alienate a lot of people in the West, far more generic in its representation
Fair enough. I don't actually know what the numbers were for persona 3/4 were, I just know that at least in NA they did decently better than most of the other SMT games, and that I was the only person I knew that owned Devil summoner or digital devil, megaten 3, but plenty of other people had persona 3 and 4.
Yes, and it isn't particularly close. Persona 3 crushed expectations in the West because Persona 2 sold, like, 20k copies or something ridiculiously small. But Persona 5 is as far as I recall Atlus' best selling game (that they developed), by like 2x or something insane.
Persona 3 had a really weird shortage problem because it came with the stupid stupid art book, so it took until FES was released to really address the supply issue.
P4G was a huge breakout as well, as that is I think the best selling Vita game?
And there haven't been any "self-serious animes" that boomed in popularity in recent years? Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba, Jujutsu Kaisen, there's Chainsaw Man on the horizon!!
SMT is a very anime JRPG series, it's just not the generic type to attract the common folk.
The P3 remakes did, not the original P3. P4 was the one that got the momentum going and P5 blew it up.
Source: A Graphic of Overall Persona Series Physical Game Sales in Japan for February 2020, Persona Central Feb 2021
I think the prep work that Atlus did with Persona 4 when they started pushing the series as a multimedia thing with spin-offs, movies and anime series really helped setup Persona 5 for massive success. I don't see any of that with SMT5 - I imagine it'll sell better than previous entries since it looks like a good game & some of the new fans that Persona 5 brought will give it a try, but I don't think SMT5 will make SMT mainstream.
Also, I think "Cool Harry Potter and his awesome teenage friends with superpowers against the evils of society" has more widespread appeal than "Mortal turns into an androgynous demigod and I think everybody else is probably going to turn into some sort of Lovecraftian monstrosity and going to try to kill them at some point."
There was also a massive increase in production values between Persona 4 & 5 that I don't think SMT5 has. Persona 5 looked like it was on the lower-end of the AAA scale, whereas SMT5 looks more mid-budget.
Persona 3 reviewed well, but wasn't an amazing seller. Basically, Persona 1 sold well, then there was a decline in sales with the sequels and then the series went on hiatus. When the series was revived with P3 & 4 the sales slowly started to go up, and then the series exploded in popularity, especially overseas, with Persona 5.
Also, I think "Cool Harry Potter and his awesome teenage friends with superpowers against the evils of society" has more widespread appeal than "Mortal turns into an androgynous demigod and I think everybody else is probably going to turn into some sort of Lovecraftian monstrosity and going to try to kill them at some point."
There was also a massive increase in production values between Persona 4 & 5 that I don't think SMT5 has. Persona 5 looked like it was on the lower-end of the AAA scale, whereas SMT5 looks more mid-budget.
Persona 3 reviewed well, but wasn't an amazing seller. Basically, Persona 1 sold well, then there was a decline in sales with the sequels and then the series went on hiatus. When the series was revived with P3 & 4 the sales slowly started to go up, and then the series exploded in popularity, especially overseas, with Persona 5.
that isn't a real comparison. Both demon slayer, jujutsu kaisen, and chainsaw man have very very radicle styles and animation. Also, Jujutsu kaisen is not THAT self serious. Literally has a Jojo's character in it, one of the most powerful players has a move called boogie woogie, jazzy beats, smooth cuts, kind of bleach inspired clothing design, a lot of comedic levity in general. I mean if you are a manga reader it is clear JJK is becoming increasingly zanier in a lot of regards. Demon slayer which I honestly think is overrated uninspired trash managed to trick a lot of people because of how artistically unique it is in setting, battle animation, etc. One of the main crew is literally a dude running around with a boar head. Chainsaw man I mean I shouldn't even have to go into that one, it's in the name.
Shin megami tensei is going to look far more typical anime to a Western audience then any of those three. What I mean by self serious isn't that it is a super super serious plot/story, but that it takes it's typical anime tropings too seriously (more like the irregular at magic highschool anime type of self serious) and the artistic design itself is incredibly uninspired outside of the monsters, which most people know through Persona. So again, it is basically going to come across as persona without the style in the West imo
Don't really agree with people saying Persona 5 looking more dynamic. It had a great art style but it looked very strongly like a PS3 game. No matter how good you think it was, it was no AAA game. The reason SMT V won't do as well despite still doing great is waifu appeal.
Which countries would "some countries" be referring to in this context?
Yes, there are series that have had their most successful installments to date on Switch, with Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Xenoblade 2 both being examples of those. I can believe that Shin Megami Tensei V will likely be the most successful mainline SMT to date, but it'll still fall far short of Persona 5's overall recognition.
Persona 1 was never SMT in the first place as opposed to Megami Ibunroku.
No but it's not supposed to. It's just supposed to be a good, fun game that meets Atlus' expectations that are mostly focused on the JP market.
I'm super excited about the game and I'll be there day one, but no.
I don't think SMT has the wider appeal of Persona. For better or worse, it feels like SMT is targeted at a more focused/niche audience, compared to Persona.
I don't think SMT has the wider appeal of Persona. For better or worse, it feels like SMT is targeted at a more focused/niche audience, compared to Persona.
I feel like the people who are saying Persona didn't get popular until P5 or P4G or whatever are just basing that on their own experience of when they got in. As someone who was into this series when the PS2 games were coming out, trust me when I say Persona was always leagues above anything else in popularity. I knew plenty of people in High School and in College who were obsessed with P3/P4 but had no idea what any other SMT game was and had very little interest.
Even when SMT IV was coming out, if I brought it up people thought I was talking about Persona 4, they just knew "Shin Megami Tensei Persona".
And that's just talking about in person. Online it was even bigger. The resentment felt by particularly silly branches of the SMT fanbase towards Persona's popularity started way before 5. Now, P5 is definitely the most popular entry to date for sure, but it's inaccurate to say it wasn't popular before it. The series "blew up" with P3 and then "blew up more" with P5.
As for if SMT V is going to have that moment? Probably not, no. Edgy apocalypse drama doesn't sell as well as character-driven anime romance pop. That's why it's so frustrating to some that Atlus is trying to make SMT more mainstream. It'll never be.
Even when SMT IV was coming out, if I brought it up people thought I was talking about Persona 4, they just knew "Shin Megami Tensei Persona".
And that's just talking about in person. Online it was even bigger. The resentment felt by particularly silly branches of the SMT fanbase towards Persona's popularity started way before 5. Now, P5 is definitely the most popular entry to date for sure, but it's inaccurate to say it wasn't popular before it. The series "blew up" with P3 and then "blew up more" with P5.
As for if SMT V is going to have that moment? Probably not, no. Edgy apocalypse drama doesn't sell as well as character-driven anime romance pop. That's why it's so frustrating to some that Atlus is trying to make SMT more mainstream. It'll never be.
I don't think so. I think it will be a quality game, don't get me wrong, but the name alone "Shin Megami Tensei" just isn't marketable enough to achieve break-out success.
I honestly think they did a disservice to the series by not doing more to localize the title.
Edit - looks like I'm not the only one who thinks the name holds it back. Kind of sad that they did not brand it better.
I honestly think they did a disservice to the series by not doing more to localize the title.
Edit - looks like I'm not the only one who thinks the name holds it back. Kind of sad that they did not brand it better.
It is exactly what I want from a new SMT. AKA it probably doesn't have massive weeb appeal with waifu romance like Persona does. It probably won't sell as well as P5 for that reason but who cares? It doesn't have to do that to be a good game that sells very well
