jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,838
Square showed a lot of restraint with Tifa from Advent Children till Remake.

I am surprised they are actually going to let you play the whole game in her swimsuit, including all the cutscenes. Those costumes in Ever Crisis must have been a big success. Square knows where the money is.
 

UAZ-469

Member
Dec 12, 2023
440
It's honestly just astonishing how much porn addiction and transphobia has rotted so many brains
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including the tweet info is gratifying because out of hundreds of thousands of views he only got 100 likes. Guy doesn't have much company
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
61,179
Men are just silly and they feel persecutted when things aren't for them it's why they get so mad about stuff like twilight (twilight is bad but not worst thing ever) and disregard otome games. POALOF is such a good movie, we watched it on a lesbian date it was good.


they know the difference they just pretend they don't cos men are mean and wanna prentend like they arent gross
So much facts here 💯
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,966
"You'd have a fit if you went to the REAL Costa del Sol 🤪🤪🤪 lmao gottem" takes are so frigid. Anyway Tifa should be wearing a sporty one piece or a tankini/sports bra with shorts.


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Agreed and I think a lot of lesbians and wlw fans would be really happy. It feels like most muscly Tifa fan art I've seen are from women who are massive fans of Tifa.

Honestly, the discussion of the past few days is kind of making me glad it's unlikely we'll be getting FF6 remakes anytime soon but I feel like Celes and Terra would get the same treatment.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,223
I bailed on the Unicorn Overlord demo before even getting to a proper fight cause the designs and the way women are animated is some heinous bullshit. Like just so over the top.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
21,050
Agreed and I think a lot of lesbians and wlw fans would be really happy. It feels like most muscly Tifa fan art I've seen are from women who are massive fans of Tifa.

Honestly, the discussion of the past few days is kind of making me glad it's unlikely we'll be getting FF6 remakes anytime soon but I feel like Celes and Terra would get the same treatment.
Terra's Esper form would be absolutely ruined.

Her Esper form artwork from Amano is amazing.

latest
 

Yabberwocky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,521
Tifa performing a mini-game while wearing the swimsuit. Animators putting the jiggle physics.



View: https://twitter.com/Genki_JPN/status/1761040685770371438

Jelly-jiggle physics, wow. That's depressing.

As an aside, it's like the team are so afraid of poor Tifa having the slightest possibility of muscle definition in her shoulders and arms that there's this weird skin ripple/deformation on her pectoral muscle near the armpit. It's less apparent when she's standing up straight, but when she bends forward it's noticeable. I feel like it's intended to be the muscle and fat that naturally sit there, but because Tifa has so little muscle, it's not quite working. For quick reference, it's easier to quickly see in stills.

Link:
GG9449RaMAAC5cO


Link:
GHDPtKNbcAAf5mP


It's there from the beginning of the gif, but you can see it when the gif pauses at the end (that's one hell of an accompanying tweet):

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1761086405567009162

I feel extremely weird mentioning it, but it was also really bizarre to notice, too. Tifa can be hot as hell in a bikini without the extra level of breaking basic anatomy -- or terrifying jelly physics.

You know…

Just looking at all of Tifa's outfits over the years and I'm realizing that SE doesn't know how to dress her lol. Her regular outfit is fine, I guess, it's iconic at this point, but I'm looking at all these alternate outfits of hers, Advent Children, the dresses, this latest swimsuit debacle…

They really can't dress her up in something that just looks NICE on her.

My friend is mortified by the swimsuit lol. "She's not a little girl, what the hell is with the ruffles, it's so ugly, wtf".

Like, actually, just put her in a black bikini top and denim shorts and she'd look better, and probably be "sexier".

(And this isn't even going into the "camera loves the ladies" stuff, which 🙄. The point is Cloud looking—it would have been a funnier scene if the camera kept on his face with his eyes dropping down and then quickly going back up, but then the camera can't look at her boobs so…)

It's really odd, yeah. Take way the frills and it seems like there is a potentially a nice sporty, striped bikini there somewhere. She's even got a matching striped wristband!

Between FFVII+OG Wall Market dress + AC, I always thought Tifa was about sleek and sporty, but FFVIIR felt like it was throwing everything at the wall with her outfits. Aerith is more stylistically consistent, though admittedly always in something pink with FFVIIR.

I literally spent my entire morning commute thinking about this Tifa stuff. I'm not going to pretend that Remake was perfect, but it did do one thing I really liked which is made the characters feel like people (or at least more like people). I don't think that cast has ever been better represented than it was there. Tifa has been a favorite of mine for a long time. In a broad sense she kind of reminds me of Trinity. A strong woman who can handle her own shit, is incredibly capable, and basically the only reason the main character succeeds/survives at all (I'm really simplifying both of their qualities, but I think my point still comes across).

This stuff they're doing with Tifa in this though feels like such a backslide and such the antithesis of her as a character. It's like the game is explicitly saying, "who she is doesn't matter. What she does doesn't matter. We know you just wanna see titties" and it fucking sucks. It's actively making me debate just accepting that this shit is no longer for me and that I'll have to be okay seeing/experiencing 1/3 of the story.

Yes, absolutely. It's really disappointing, and I didn't have high hopes to begin with.

Terra's Esper form would be absolutely ruined.

Her Esper form artwork from Amano is amazing.

latest

The Amano art is incredible. Terra's Esper Dissidia model doesn't really do it justice:
latest
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,510
Jelly-jiggle physics, wow. That's depressing.

As an aside, it's like the team are so afraid of poor Tifa having the slightest possibility of muscle definition in her shoulders and arms that there's this weird skin ripple/deformation on her pectoral muscle near the armpit. It's less apparent when she's standing up straight, but when she bends forward it's noticeable. I feel like it's intended to be the muscle and fat that naturally sit there, but because Tifa has so little muscle, it's not quite working. For quick reference, it's easier to quickly see in stills.

Link:
GG9449RaMAAC5cO


Link:
GHDPtKNbcAAf5mP


It's there from the beginning of the gif, but you can see it when the gif pauses at the end (that's one hell of an accompanying tweet):

View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1761086405567009162

I feel extremely weird mentioning it, but it was also really bizarre to notice, too. Tifa can be hot as hell in a bikini without the extra level of breaking basic anatomy -- or terrifying jelly physics.



It's really odd, yeah. Take way the frills and it seems like there is a potentially a nice sporty, striped bikini there somewhere. She's even got a matching striped wristband!

Between FFVII+OG Wall Market dress + AC, I always thought Tifa was about sleek and sporty, but FFVIIR felt like it was throwing everything at the wall with her outfits. Aerith is more stylistically consistent, though admittedly always in something pink with FFVIIR.


Oh, that is weird with her armpit area. Oof.

(Pyra's swimsuit is nicer lmao. AAAAHhhh.)

I think even the colour on Tifa's swimsuit is bad. The whole ensemble is just… :(

Yeah, I mean, she's always had a "sporty" look to her, and her OG/general Remake outfits convey that well enough, but I just find every alt outfit of hers looks bad. And I'm not fashionable, but I'm like…damn, why they gotta dress Tifa like that lol.

Like… for a dress, a nice wrap dress would look great on her. A black, blue, or red bikini top or tankini top with swim shorts would look great. Like… they don't need to "try" to make her look sexy or put her in weird outfits to try to achieve that—her character model is already sexy.

At least this is just a few scenes or whatever and we can put her back in her default outfit and that's that, but man lol.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,359
Um...how on earth does she look even remotely trans? I don't see it. Some people are just...

Also what does it even mean to 'look trans'. Like any group of people there's a wide variety of how they look. What they mean is that she looks too masculine or not feminine enough which is absolute garbage and frankly shouldn't matter for a character who stars in action adventure games.
 

Jhey Cyphre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,359
Wow. That Tifa outfit is really unfortunate.

When ever the game hits PC I'm sure there will be at least one mod that gives her a more sensible outfit.
 

Dragmire

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,140
It's funny that Zangan, Tifa's teacher,
was commenting on how Cloud needs to bulk up. But Cloud still looked more bulked up than Tifa back then.
 

Pyramid Head

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,912
^ That 'armpit' thing doesn't look like it's 'indended' to be anything to me. As a 3d artist, that just looks like a couple of verts poking out because they weren't weighted properly.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,326
Man, I haven't played the games myself but read plenty discourse and when watching the Easy Allies review there were a handful of scenes where I had my "are they serious with this infantilized behavior and dialogue?" moments.


View: https://youtu.be/5SOXVEuRLSQ?t=436

Is Tifa intentionally behaving like that for some weird kind of ploy/distraction here or... is that just how these games genuinely are?

Of course, the overly animated and *reaction noises* kind of dialogue isn't just for the female characters, but the weird infantilization might be, from what little I've seen of the two games. Combining the latter with sexualization is, of course, a real winning formula 🙄.

But yeah, first and foremost I'm not sure if it's possible to take the, at the core, dramatic and epic story even the tiniest bit serious with these bizarre characters/interactions. It's so off-putting that I genuinely can't see myself enjoying the story if it occurs with any regularity. I reckon it didn't get portrayed or didn't come across like that in the original games.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
42,156
Greater Vancouver
Man, I haven't played the games myself but read plenty discourse and when watching the Easy Allies review there were a handful of scenes where I had my "are they serious with this infantilized behavior and dialogue?" moments.


View: https://youtu.be/5SOXVEuRLSQ?t=436

Is Tifa intentionally behaving like that for some weird kind of ploy/distraction here or... is that just how these games genuinely are?

Of course, the overly animated and *reaction noises* kind of dialogue isn't just for the female characters, but the weird infantilization might be, from what little I've seen of the two games. Combining the latter with sexualization is, of course, a real winning formula 🙄.

But yeah, first and foremost I'm not sure if it's possible to take the, at the core, dramatic and epic story even the tiniest bit serious with these bizarre characters/interactions. It's so off-putting that I genuinely can't see myself enjoying the story if it occurs with any regularity. I reckon it didn't get portrayed or didn't come across like that in the original games.

That particular scene is a flashback to when she's 14. Rest of the game occurs when she's 20.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
56,484
Man, I haven't played the games myself but read plenty discourse and when watching the Easy Allies review there were a handful of scenes where I had my "are they serious with this infantilized behavior and dialogue?" moments.


View: https://youtu.be/5SOXVEuRLSQ?t=436

Is Tifa intentionally behaving like that for some weird kind of ploy/distraction here or... is that just how these games genuinely are?
Tifa's 14 in that scene so her mannerisms are definitely meant to come off as acting "like a kid." Her body language isn't as exaggerated while she's an adult. Aerith on the other hand, is very "manic pixie dream girl" right down to her walk cycle.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzmR538j-Jc

Neither are as bad as fucking Iris tho.... 🙃

Or what I would call approaching the worst examples of infantilization in JRPGs. Moreso approaching the anime-isms that the creative team is quite fond of compared to say, the characters in FFXVI. Right down to the grunts. The constant, constant, grunts.

FFXVI is the standard for the series in terms of body language
But yeah, first and foremost I'm not sure if it's possible to take the, at the core, dramatic and epic story even the tiniest bit serious with these bizarre characters/interactions. It's so off-putting that I genuinely can't see myself enjoying the story if it occurs with any regularity. I reckon it didn't get portrayed or didn't come across like that in the original games.
 
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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
122,970
Tifa's 14 in that scene so her mannerisms are definitely meant to come off as acting "like a kid." Her body language isn't as exaggerated while she's an adult. Aerith on the other hand, is very "manic pixie dream girl" right down to her walk cycle. Neither are as bad as fucking Iris tho.... 🙃

Eh, all of the women still do the "Iris head bob" even as adults. Tifa does it the least of all of the main female cast, but it's a consistent animation choice that this development team seems to ascribe to for all major female characters except Scarlet. They just seem to think it's appealing.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
56,484
i dont like this :(. is this why people think kiddy men are immature but kiddy ladies are cute and pure and stuff? maybe i gotta not read here when little
It's a very common trope and that video goes into the telltale signs of it. Even outside of the specific trope they're talking about it can absolutely be applied to a lot of women in media who weren't very specifically born a day before they meet the protagonist.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,009
I agree with y'all, that bikini does not fit Tifa at all. The design screams 'tween' and got slapped onto a woman.
There's hundreds of bathing suits that would fit her better.
Wouldn't fix the male gaze shit, of course, but it wouldn't invoke infantile vibes.
 

Kinketsu

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,042
I agree with y'all, that bikini does not fit Tifa at all. The design screams 'tween' and got slapped onto a woman.
There's hundreds of bathing suits that would fit her better.
Wouldn't fix the male gaze shit, of course, but it wouldn't invoke infantile vibes.

In fairness, it is somewhat in style with the kind of swimsuits you will see many young women wearing if you go to a resort / pool in Japan. Including the frilly top and "skirt" style bottoms. I take more issue with the fact that first of all of course the top is too small for her and second of all, the bending over and shit.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,009
In fairness, it is somewhat in style with the kind of swimsuits you will see many young women wearing if you go to a resort / pool in Japan. Including the frilly top and "skirt" style bottoms. I take more issue with the fact that first of all it doesnt fit and second of all, the bending over and shit.

While true, the design just doesn't fit Tifa. Honestly if they removed the frilly additions the bikini would likely look better.
 

Kinketsu

Member
Nov 17, 2017
2,042
While true, the design just doesn't fit Tifa. Honestly if they removed the frilly additions the bikini would likely look better.

I agree but just in this case I dont think they were deliberately going for "infantile" anymore than the general fashion vibe is infantile, which is might well invoke, it is just that it is similar to what most girls here under 30 are wearing to the beach.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,009
I agree but just in this case I dont think they were deliberately going for "infantile" anymore than the general fashion vibe is infantile, which is might well invoke, it is just that it is similar to what most girls here under 30 are wearing to the beach.

Ah ok, I agree with what you're saying.

Edit: whoops I double quoted you
 

Chiharu

Member
Apr 10, 2020
157
White Space
Yea, idk, I definitely wouldn't call the swimsuit infantile or say that it looks like a tween outfit. I'm 23, and I think it's cute.
I think when looking at stuff like outfits, it's important to not view it from a purely western perspective. That's not to say you can't criticize stuff, because you can, but saying that an outfit is intended to infantilize a character just because from a western perspective, it would be considered immature for an adult to wear, seems a bit unfair to me.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
61,179
Yea, idk, I definitely wouldn't call the swimsuit infantile or say that it looks like a tween outfit. I'm 23, and I think it's cute.
I think when looking at stuff like outfits, it's important to not view it from a purely western perspective. That's not to say you can't criticize stuff, because you can, but saying that an outfit is intended to infantilize a character just because from a western perspective, it would be considered immature for an adult to wear, seems a bit unfair to me.
I mean...it's in the game, and many many western people are going to play it. I don't know how frilled swimsuits are seen in Japan, but there is only one way to view it from a western perspective. There is nothing unfair about calling as we see it.
 

Chiharu

Member
Apr 10, 2020
157
White Space
I mean...it's in the game, and many many western people are going to play it. I don't know how frilled swimsuits are seen in Japan, but there is only one way to view it from a western perspective. There is nothing unfair about calling as we see it.
Yes, western people are going to play it, but it is ultimately a Japanese game made by Japanese people. Hence why I don't think it makes any sense to say they were trying to make Tifa seem infantile with the swimsuit simply because said swimsuit would be viewed as childish in the western world. I mean, someone above stated that the frills are normal for young women to wear in Japan. But that's just my two cents.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,331
Canada
I just think they're super overwrought for bathing suits lol

Aerith's got like 10 flowers in her hair, and Tifa has a bracer and stringy thingy and frills AND flowers and ribbons in her hair.


EDIT: In a similar vein, Aerith's middle dress is more my taste because the 'best' red option feels soo extra too

jlee_210406_1001_aerithdress.jpg
 
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Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
19,946
I feel like the vibe infinatilized Tifa and Aerith give is similar to japans idol culture. Idk, maybe im hallucinating, but it feels adjacent.
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,619
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
Let's please remember that criticizing clothing put on women characters can be done without criticizing women that would actually wear said clothing. Also *taps bottom sign* watch them generalizations.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,009
Not saying the devs are intentionally making Tifa seem infantile, it's the clash from the bathing suit.
I understand now thats the style found in Japan. More power to irl women who wears those bathing suits.
Honestly if the frills were placed differently that would fix the silhouette a bit.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
61,179
I wasn't aware that the frills were a modern style for women in Japen....apologies there. I guess this is just a very unfortunate coincidence where in the west, or at least definitely in the US it's the style for girls, so a cultural clash.
 
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Abdiel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
937
I wasn't aware that the frills were a modern style for women in Japen....apologies there. I guess this is just a very unfortunate incident then where in the west, or at least definitely in the US it's the style for girls, so a cultural clash.

I mean, I totally get where you're coming from, but a lot of that tends to be based on how so many Western bathing suits for young girls are based on those frilly designs and there's an absence of that style in suits for older age groups.

I certainly didn't read your posts as painting the entire culture as a deliberate slant, just unfortunate overlay of... perception by tendency?

Like the mod post mentions, it's definitely a specific example of this kinda thing.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
42,156
Greater Vancouver
I feel like the vibe infinatilized Tifa and Aerith give is similar to japans idol culture. Idk, maybe im hallucinating, but it feels adjacent.
You could say alot about that (atleast in the previous game) around Tifa and Aerith's physicality. I'm mainly speaking about the mocap performance. Aerith is fairly bubbly so it sorta suits her, but Tifa's stance and overly gestured movements always felt at odds with her being a physical fighter and someone who has been "in the fight" for some time.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,569
Yeah part of the reason it looks so weird with Tifa is that it clashes with the way she acts on other media before and how she is brawler