Lamptramp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,539
Germany
They could have just not shown the Tifa cleavage shot and it would still be obvious where Cloud's eyes are going. Like I don't have a problem with him glancing at his love interest's boobs, it's the framing. Men will refuse to understand this of course.

Which is so odd and what I don't understand *at all* there is "sexiness" and attractiveness in nuance and subtlety. There is sexiness , relatability and reality in some humour / awkwardness being used instead too, its not difficult.

There is just NONE in this version.

I feel like I am like the only stupid person that doesnt get it in the room sometimes looking at media and games in particular.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
56,484
Also as an aside. that is possibly one of the least sexualised male figures I've seen in a game with their clothes off. Cloud looks like a 14 year old, and the camera is almost afraid to even show his fully body. It's always bizarre to me how straight guys cannot perceive the difference in how the camera and setting and animations work between women who are sexualised and guys who just have some clothing off. They are so far apart it's silly.
Often times the guys who insist that just not having a shirt on is sexualization don't consume any media where a male character is genuinely sexualized/objectified let alone talk to women about the matter so they have an incredibly surface level understanding of what that actually looks like.
 

Saito Hikari

Member
Jul 3, 2021
3,320
This is the part with 1. Gold Saucer; 2. orthopedic underwear; and 3. CPR for the young teenage girl in a bikini.

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To be fair, the HSR fanbase at least possesses actual self awareness with this stuff. People shit on Acheron's design for looking way too close to another character, and the common assumption is that both characters are only like that because they're direct references to popular characters in Honkai Impact 3rd. I'm sure you all remember what that game and fanbase is like.

The fanbase also relentlessly shits on the 'Luofu dress code'. I don't have the energy to explain, but I'm sure you all can guess enough of it.
 

show me your skeleton

#1 Bugsnax Fan
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,895
skeleton land
You know…

Just looking at all of Tifa's outfits over the years and I'm realizing that SE doesn't know how to dress her lol. Her regular outfit is fine, I guess, it's iconic at this point, but I'm looking at all these alternate outfits of hers, Advent Children, the dresses, this latest swimsuit debacle…

They really can't dress her up in something that just looks NICE on her.

My friend is mortified by the swimsuit lol. "She's not a little girl, what the hell is with the ruffles, it's so ugly, wtf".

Like, actually, just put her in a black bikini top and denim shorts and she'd look better, and probably be "sexier".

(And this isn't even going into the "camera loves the ladies" stuff, which 🙄. The point is Cloud looking—it would have been a funnier scene if the camera kept on his face with his eyes dropping down and then quickly going back up, but then the camera can't look at her boobs so…)
her design/outfit has always been so awful and imo goes against her entire personality. like... tifa's kind of reserved, especially in comparison to aerith, and she's wearing a midriff-exposing top and mini-skirt with braces that emphasise her chest? cmon.

anyway the costa del sol scene should be bookended by five minutes of cloud lotioning up his chiseled body, long uninterrupted shots of glistening dork flesh lightly roasting in the sun. taking off the shorts to reveal some speedos before doing those squats that he loves.
 
Jun 16, 2023
443
Germany
As I am getting older, I am more and more turned down from the overarching thirst baiting and general sexualisation in all media.

The beach scene will just make me uncomfortable to play this part of the game. It just feels odd and out of place with how the characters push their body traits into your face and it is really not necessary for this content monster.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
56,484
her design/outfit has always been so awful and imo goes against her entire personality. like... tifa's kind of reserved, especially in comparison to aerith, and she's wearing a midriff-exposing top and mini-skirt with braces that emphasise her chest? cmon.
That was always sort of the point. Tifa and Aerith have personalities that contradict their personalities. Which is a novel idea somewhat shackled by 1990s design philosophies wherein devs didn't think too much about objectification, or rather, deliberately objectified their cast of women hence Tifa, a person who works at a bar looking the way she does.

Her remake design is actually quite good compared to trying to just render the old one with higher fidelity, lack of muscles aside... It's just a shame that they're also thirst trapping and seemingly wanna include moments where the player can oogle in every part of this remake.
 
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Persephone

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,040
"You'd have a fit if you went to the REAL Costa del Sol 🤪🤪🤪 lmao gottem" takes are so frigid. Anyway Tifa should be wearing a sporty one piece or a tankini/sports bra with shorts.


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Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
21,050
That was always sort of the point. Tifa and Aerith have personalities that contradict their personalities. Which is a novel idea somewhat shackled by 1990s design philosophies wherein devs didn't think too much about objectification, or rather, deliberately objectified their cast of women hence Tifa, a person who works at a bar looking the way she does.

Her remake design is actually quite good compared to trying to just render the old one with higher fidelity, lack of muscles aside... It's just a shame that they're also thirst trapping and seemingly wanna include moments where the player can oogle in every part of this remake.
I doubt there was any real intention behind Tifa, they just threw a bunch of things in a pot that they thought was hot. The fact that it's treated as a joke in the original when it comes time for her to have a one on one fight says it all.
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,510
her design/outfit has always been so awful and imo goes against her entire personality. like... tifa's kind of reserved, especially in comparison to aerith, and she's wearing a midriff-exposing top and mini-skirt with braces that emphasise her chest? cmon.

anyway the costa del sol scene should be bookended by five minutes of cloud lotioning up his chiseled body, long uninterrupted shots of glistening dork flesh lightly roasting in the sun. taking off the shorts to reveal some speedos before doing those squats that he loves.

Oh, her original outfit not "good", but at least it looks fine enough, and she looks nice in it. Remake's version improved on it a bit, for sure. It's just that every other outfit looks really bad on her lol. So her default is…by default, her "best" haha.

I'm also realizing that the only thing SE knows how to dress her in with any confidence is shorts and a crop top haha. I was like "her walking around Costa del Sol outfit is okay…" and wait… it's just shorts and a crop top again haha.
 

nicobane

Banned
Nov 8, 2022
3
Here's a question: Has the movement to include positive portrayals of women in gaming shifted the demographics in any particular way?
I feel like the movement has been such a big focus for so long that there has to be some strong data on it.
 

Juraash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
Very frustrating to see the tiresome trope of people trying to use in-universe logic to dismiss people's frustrations with creative choices being made by real people. Like, people are seriously arguing that it's silly to get annoyed with the direction of that scene because "they're at a beach and Cloud is attracted to Tifa so it's fine" while completely ignoring the fact that the direction of the cutscene has Tifa stare directly into the camera and posing to put her cleavage on maximum display. Like, if they wanted to show Cloud's attraction to Tifa there were plenty of ways to show him looking at her without also putting her on such blatant display directly for the camera. The cutscene direction is for the player to ogle at Tifa and Cloud is just the excuse the developers are using for that.

That's not even getting into the even sillier argument that "actually Cloud is just as sexualized as the girl's cause he's not wearing a top." Just feels very annoying because it really feels like in certain cases like this, people are intentionally trying not to get the point people are making.

Unfortunately I think that the more people love a thing, the more they're willing to make excuses for its bullshit. I think, with online discourse in general (and we're no exception here) any criticism can be met with really harsh backlash and it makes it
Tifa performing a mini-game while wearing the swimsuit. Animators putting the jiggle physics.



View: https://twitter.com/Genki_JPN/status/1761040685770371438


God fucking damnit...
 
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Persephone

Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,040
Also I swear there's a transparent panel on the front of Tifa's top with the purple straps covering her nip-nops. Am I imagining it???
 

apathetic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,435
Fucking dumb. Also love seeing people gush about this stuff right next to stellar blade stuff when I've been trying to ignore that game completely.

As I am getting older, I am more and more turned down from the overarching thirst baiting and general sexualisation in all media.

Don't know if it's getting older, but I guess just getting tired of things I could just overlook before is kinda the same thing.
 

ventuno

Member
Nov 11, 2019
2,983
I hate Tifa's design, the strap placement especially looks extremely uncomfortable and painful. Nothing is beating her AC outfit, but the Remake outfit could have been worse so it's a shame to see her get some ugly tacky gacha game summer alt outfit.
 

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,957
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
I doubt there was any real intention behind Tifa, they just threw a bunch of things in a pot that they thought was hot. The fact that it's treated as a joke in the original when it comes time for her to have a one on one fight says it all.

I believe one of the designers mentioned in an old interview they got inspiration for Tifa's design was from watching a bunch of movies from that era, specifically Jennifer Connelly in 'Career Opportunities' & Ayumi Ito in 'Swallowtail Butterfly', so that checks out.

"You'd have a fit if you went to the REAL Costa del Sol 🤪🤪🤪 lmao gottem" takes are so frigid. Anyway Tifa should be wearing a sporty one piece or a tankini/sports bra with shorts.

image0.jpg

I'm down for Tifa sporting an outfit similar to this one. Hopefully the option is there in-game, as I can buy that Tifa could be wearing something this over... Whatever that stupid outfit she's wearing.

Barrett wearing the sailor uniform was the one thing I wanted, so I'm happy that played out. Dude looks handsome as fuck with that costume.
 

Juraash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,963
I literally spent my entire morning commute thinking about this Tifa stuff. I'm not going to pretend that Remake was perfect, but it did do one thing I really liked which is made the characters feel like people (or at least more like people). I don't think that cast has ever been better represented than it was there. Tifa has been a favorite of mine for a long time. In a broad sense she kind of reminds me of Trinity. A strong woman who can handle her own shit, is incredibly capable, and basically the only reason the main character succeeds/survives at all (I'm really simplifying both of their qualities, but I think my point still comes across).

This stuff they're doing with Tifa in this though feels like such a backslide and such the antithesis of her as a character. It's like the game is explicitly saying, "who she is doesn't matter. What she does doesn't matter. We know you just wanna see titties" and it fucking sucks. It's actively making me debate just accepting that this shit is no longer for me and that I'll have to be okay seeing/experiencing 1/3 of the story.
 

nicobane

Banned
Nov 8, 2022
3
User Banned (permanent): troll account
"You'd have a fit if you went to the REAL Costa del Sol 🤪🤪🤪 lmao gottem" takes are so frigid. Anyway Tifa should be wearing a sporty one piece or a tankini/sports bra with shorts.


image0.jpg
Wait why? Should Cloud be wearing a male swim shirt too because it's out of character for him to be wearing a swimsuit topless? Criticizing the camera and framing I understand but the swimsuits are fine.
 

BearBobomb

Member
Jun 3, 2022
1,534
Earth
Extreme bias to Rebirth aside I'm at glad there's options for the Costa del Sol outfits, at least you're not forced into cheesecake Tifa if you don't want it
 
Jan 11, 2018
10,646
This stuff they're doing with Tifa in this though feels like such a backslide and such the antithesis of her as a character. It's like the game is explicitly saying, "who she is doesn't matter. What she does doesn't matter. We know you just wanna see titties" and it fucking sucks.

It sucks. CBU1 just openly embracing the degenerate takes on her character that have poisoned the discourse around Final Fantasy VII for decades. And it only further cements my view that the original game is its own stand-alone experience, with all of the Compilation and Remake retcon nonsense being a completely different beast that fails to capture what the original was all about.

No, I thought that as well. Her swimsuit is so ugly...

For what it's worth, all of my female friends have also commented on how ugly it is.
 
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MoonlitSeer

Fallen Guardian
Member
Jun 9, 2023
1,371
Wait why? Should Cloud be wearing a male swim shirt too because it's out of character for him to be wearing a swimsuit topless? Criticizing the camera and framing I understand but the swimsuits are fine.
Because their swimsuits are clearly trying to evoke the image of their usual outfits and that matches more closely to what Tifa wears? That makes more sense to me than the frilly thing she has on now.
 

Edalyn

Member
Jan 15, 2023
137
Washington
Tifas swimsuit is so ugly, that when it leaked I thought it was fanmade.

It's some toddler trash, I showed her pic around to women I know for funsies.
They all thought it looked like a 10 year old swimsuit.
Like the sexualization, the objectification and now the youth fetishization all make me sick. I went from wanting to pre order this shit, to debating on if 20$ in six years is even worth it.
also somewhat related I just dealt with some really offputting sexism in dragon quest builders 2, a chibi game that by all accounts should be targeting women as thier main demo, but the story is so fucking bad it feels like I'm playing some Shonen shit. I feel like at some point, square enix just forgot woman play these things too
I guess wanking masterbators' money is more important than mine.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
Tifas swimsuit is so ugly, that when it leaked I thought it was fanmade.

It's some toddler trash, I showed her pic around to women I know for funsies.
They all thought it looked like a 10 year old swimsuit.
Like the sexualization, the objectification and now the youth fetishization all make me sick. I went from wanting to pre order this shit, to debating on if 20$ in six years is even worth it.
also somewhat related I just dealt with some really offputting sexism in dragon quest builders 2, a chibi game that by all accounts should be targeting women as thier main demo, but the story is so fucking bad it feels like I'm playing some Shonen shit. I feel like at some point, square enix just forgot woman play these things too
I guess wanking masterbators' money is more important than mine.

Oh god, yeah, DQB2 is AWFUL with it's characterizations, and that on top of sexualized chibi designs which always *ALWAYS* feel gross to me.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,569
Is hard to believe how blatant FF7R it's being, like there is even a minigame where Tifa, on her swimsuit, is doing pushups
 

Sadnarav

Member
Nov 6, 2019
934
As someone who loves FF7 and FF7 Remake it sucks to see they objectifing Tifa so bad in Rebirth

I have some problems with Tifa's characterization in Remake - from her personality being kind off all over the place to all her dresses being ugly, but at least the game was never weird about her
 

BrandoBoySP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,210
I doubt there was any real intention behind Tifa, they just threw a bunch of things in a pot that they thought was hot. The fact that it's treated as a joke in the original when it comes time for her to have a one on one fight says it all.

Eh, I mean, there's pretty much always going to be intent behind it - you don't make games as expansive (for the time) as FFVII without thinking through things. Plus, the devs did say outright that Tifa's default outfit is in part meant to contrast her shy personality. It's just that all that goes hand-in-hand with the sexualization, whether "let's do something that contrasts" came first or "let's make her bare some skin" did.

I personally don't mind them being in swimsuits at Costa del Sol considering it's a beach and they're probably expanding on the short bit of fun we got there in the original, but that camera pan is irritating, ugh. Not the worst we've ever seen and yet still just straight up awkward in context. I even understand having a tiny amount of jiggle physics because boobs do move around, but that minigame shot. The fuck? Aerith's swimsuit makes a bit of sense for her, but god, Tifa's is ugly.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
61,179
It's honestly just astonishing how much porn addiction and transphobia has rotted so many brains
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Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
56,484
She has a tiny amount of muscle definition and doesn't have a doll face like Tifa.
I wouldn't even agree that she doesn't even have a doll face like, people have been tripping over themselves to insist that Lara is no longer still traditionally attractive because of feminism for more than decade and like, she's finally back to square one and they still aren't happy. Like, the brainrot is insane.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
28,207
Tifa performing a mini-game while wearing the swimsuit. Animators putting the jiggle physics.



View: https://twitter.com/Genki_JPN/status/1761040685770371438


This is just me talking, but the thing that unnerves me the most about this is her arms. They're so fucking small, what the fuck. This is the character that punches people to death. Elbows are knife sharp.

It's honestly just astonishing how much porn addiction has rotted so many brains
Screenshot-20240223-143452-Chrome.jpg

It's so odd because my brain initially chose to see the positive of this and I said, "yeah, she does."

But I know what he meant...

I always know what they mean...

I wouldn't even agree that she doesn't even have a doll face like, people have been tripping over themselves to insist that Lara is no longer still traditionally attractive because of feminism for more than decade and like, she's finally back to square one and they still aren't happy. Like, the brainrot is insane.

They never have, nor ever will, have any idea of what they want. It's why, as creators and marketers, you don't listen to them.
 
Nov 7, 2022
233
Still doing that thing from Remake of having Tifa and Aerith looking directly at you (the player), but now it's worse.

This shit drives me crazy too. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I have to imagine that you (the player) are a proxy for Cloud, and they're just doing this to give you his PoV. At least, that's what I had to do with one of the cutscenes in Tears of the Kingdom where Zelda looks directly into the camera and talks at you for several seconds. It was so uncanny and damn near took me out of the experience.
 

Finiri6143

Member
Mar 16, 2022
2,425
This shit drives me crazy too. Giving them the benefit of the doubt, I have to imagine that you (the player) are a proxy for Cloud, and they're just doing this to give you his PoV. At least, that's what I had to do with one of the cutscenes in Tears of the Kingdom where Zelda looks directly into the camera and talks at you for several seconds. It was so uncanny and damn near took me out of the experience.
What cutscene was that in Tears of the Kingdom?
 

Twohearts

Banned
Feb 8, 2024
588
Straya
The camera in that scene, in particular, reminds me of all the talk I saw around "Portrait of a Girl on Fire" because it was one of the rare occasions where nudity and sex was shot and framed with a female gaze. It also reminds of how, even when sexualized outfits are less so—like Cammy in SF6—the camera picks up the objectification slack. Can't have tasteful outfits AND tasteful framing, after all.

Men are just silly and they feel persecutted when things aren't for them it's why they get so mad about stuff like twilight (twilight is bad but not worst thing ever) and disregard otome games. POALOF is such a good movie, we watched it on a lesbian date it was good.

Also as an aside. that is possibly one of the least sexualised male figures I've seen in a game with their clothes off. Cloud looks like a 14 year old, and the camera is almost afraid to even show his fully body. It's always bizarre to me how straight guys cannot perceive the difference in how the camera and setting and animations work between women who are sexualised and guys who just have some clothing off. They are so far apart it's silly.
they know the difference they just pretend they don't cos men are mean and wanna prentend like they arent gross