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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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I don't know why this made me think of it, but has anyone brought up the later Call of Duty games, yet? I've been playing black ops 4 and the female specialists in multiplayer are taken every bit as seriously as their male counterparts, including alternate costumes. Plus they just added Outrider and she has a bow with explosive-tipped arrows, which is a 👍👍👍 from me.
Yeah I get you. To me, designs like those seen in Nier Automata always sound like developers trying to have their cake and eat it too. Lots of people defend the main protagonist skimpy outfit by saying things like "oh but sexuality is an important theme of the game so it needed to be that way!" Thing is, people that will get this (arguably shallow) critical take on sexuality are most probably already aware of those issues. The other dudes playing the game will not get it at all and will just enjoy their upskirt shots.
So what's the point? On one hand you're preaching to the choir, and on the other you're reinforcing sexism and misogyny.
In my opinion, it's the old "it's not criticism if you end up reinforcing the problem" type of thing.
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I know For Honor's an old example, but, hey, it's nice to just admire the good things in life every once in awhile, y'know?
Admittedly, at this point I'm pretty much just playing the game to admire the pretty visuals. Which, I think, goes a long way to showing that getting people invested in your characters doesn't require you to blatantly pander to the audience in an insultingly base fashion. Just a thought.
For Honor is so good in this regard. I really like that they have both genders for many classes and there isn't too much difference between them. I want to get the expansion pack but I'm currently only playing through the campaign in co-op with a friend. Not sure how much of MP I'll play afterwards. I'd play a BR mode in this, maybe.
Also for any one interested, the base game is free on PS+ Feb.
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Claymore is on my top 10 mangas. Even if the second half feels weaker than the first. The Battle of the North is one of my favorite manga arcs. The one think I hated about Claymore was Raki. I hate characters like him in manga.
I watched some of the Claymore anime. I thought it was pretty good but there were some things that still stood out for me. The tight body suit they all wore was one but I also seem to recall
I could be wrong, it has been a long time since I've watched anime and Claymore was even further back.
there was something about men being stronger so they only now made women into their warriors because they were on weaker and easier to control or something. I seem to recall one of the antagonists was also a former male warrior who turned corrupted.
If I remember correctly, women are stronger than men. The problem with men is that they could not control the yoma flesh as good as womens and they awakened easier.
For example, of the 3 abyssal ones, only one was a man.
For example, of the 3 abyssal ones, only one was a man.
Its:
Men couldnt control the pleasure feelings that yoma powers gave them and every single one of them awakened. So then the company decided to to use Women in the tests and they had the will and resolve to control the power and fight monsters. Ofc they still went eventually or died willingly but hey...100% never says men were better or anything in that Manga.
Ah, thanks for clarifying. I watched in Chinese dub as well which probably didn't help my understanding of it or maybe some translation fuckery there. I should give the manga a shot one of these days.
To think that the devs made the game that way in the first place. Spike Chunsoft pls.
Zanki Zero: Last Beginning Western Release Changes
Zanki Zero: Last Beginning Western Release Changes
I gotta say, this thread has been a great read. Infact it is one of the best threads on this forum.
Loving the Claymore and Black Lagoon love in this thread. Those animes are amazing.
Loving the Claymore and Black Lagoon love in this thread. Those animes are amazing.
The Claymore manga is even better since it didn't make up some crazy non canon ending.
I spent a good amount of time thinking of good anime I've watched in the last two years and just... I couldn't even remember the anime I watched in the last two years. Like, I know I watched a lot, but aside from JoJo I remember basically none of it. It was strange... I remember stuff from more than a decade ago with such clarity but can't remember stuff from last season at all. And that's started to become true of video games as well. Not like, as true, I'd say, but still... it was really weird to realize this.
And here's the thing, it's not even that I think some of the stuff I watched during those seasons were bad - I thought stuff like Violet Everagarden and After the Rain were pretty alright. But they didn't stick out to me at all and I actually had to go back to even remember that I'd watched them.
And here's the thing, it's not even that I think some of the stuff I watched during those seasons were bad - I thought stuff like Violet Everagarden and After the Rain were pretty alright. But they didn't stick out to me at all and I actually had to go back to even remember that I'd watched them.
I mean, you just recommended Land of the Lustrous some pages ago.
I am planning on reading it after rewatching Claymore as I never got around to reading it. Will be relly exciting to see how it ends.
Yeah I need to do the same at some point. Amazon has the whole manga in a set to buy and I want that badly.
Sure, but one from 2017 ain't exactly a sterling record. :P
Just looked it up and I feel the same. Looks really cool.
I sometimes think about buying manga physically but then I remember how huge of a money sink they are so I stop myself from buying.
Again, enjoyed the show, would recommend but didn't remember that it was released in 2018. XD
On a whim I'm playing Dead Space 3 again (the co-cop and space stuff is really good, sue me) and I kinda forgot about the character/design assassination they pulled on a side character.
Ellie in Dead Space 2:
Ellie in Dead Space 3:
Aside from the implants, her whole demeanor is blown up into something really shitty. She was extremely resourceful and capable in 2. In 3...she kinda sucks (well, so far, haven't finished it yet and I may have forgotten her being cool again).
Ellie in Dead Space 2:
Ellie in Dead Space 3:
Aside from the implants, her whole demeanor is blown up into something really shitty. She was extremely resourceful and capable in 2. In 3...she kinda sucks (well, so far, haven't finished it yet and I may have forgotten her being cool again).
Seconded.
It is a short series but so damn relatable. The main character is also really cool. I love her.
Yar, I'm just ribbing. But seriously, I think this is par for the course? The more you've seen of a medium, the harder for one of them to stand out in your mind.
Which is a nicer way to say "you're getting old."
Yeah, that's probably fair, but I knew right away that Demon's Souls would be one of my favorite games the first time I played it and it's still one of my favorites. So that holds true up to a certain point but again, I think the reason I love Land of the Lustrous is because I've seen as much anime as I have and I genuinely think it's doing something different and interesting with the medium.
Get off my lawn!
*grumble grumble*
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I have most of Berserk and some HxH, my problem with physical manga is storage space.
I actually went back on animelist and saw what I watched from 2017-2018 and I didn't even get six second before doing that reawakened an awful anime from my brain: Youjo Shenki. Hey, want something worse than an iseki? An Isekei that turns an old Japanese cruel salaryman into a young loli Nazi! BRILLIANT! Not helped that this season also has Kobayashi no Dragon Maid-Sama which also is gross in its shoutacon baiting.
This isn't exactly new, I don't think, because I remember hearing this title a decent while ago. But, this sponsored Facebook post from Play-Asia went by my feed, and it was spit-take worthy.
Like...holy hell. What's going on? lol
Like...holy hell. What's going on? lol
I think when watching anime these days my sister and I just learn to take the good with the bad. She was watching me play World of Light in Smash and she was really inquisitive about the various characters. She's so out of the loop on things I had to explain what Fire Emblem was. When Camilla popped up she goes, "Oh she looks cool!" But then I remarked that her spirit artwork hides her ridiculous cleavage. And she goes, "Oh like an Erza type thing." She loves Fairy Tail and she tells me she just loves the mythos and lore behind it and plus the dub makes it easy for her to love the characters." And I think that last bit can be said for both of us.
I mean we're both enjoying Reincarnated as a Slime and the one thing I've noticed she always praises is Brittany Karbowski's Rimuru who plays him as just a really chill dude with a feminine voice. She didn't mind the Dragon girl being waifu-fied but she did cry foul over Demon Lord girl with her barely there, butt crack showing, about-to-slip-any-minute panties.
But let's see, standouts from the last couple years for me? I probably should use my anime list sometime but I'm so lazy. Off the top of my head:
Sakura Quest
Centaur's Life
Pop Team Epic
Konohana Kitan
Snow White with the Red Hair
Bed and Breakfast for Spirits
New Game
Gamers
Aggretsuko
High Score Girl
and maybe recently Zombie Land Saga. But I can see where esserius is coming from. Those I just listed are good but hardly like some medium defying standouts or something.
It's funny you mention Dragon Maid. I've been really curious about it recently. Yes I've heard it's "bad" but seeing the incel/gamergate/istandwithvic types STILL grilling Jamie Marchi over her dub script for the series make me think there's probably a change or two for the better.
I mean we're both enjoying Reincarnated as a Slime and the one thing I've noticed she always praises is Brittany Karbowski's Rimuru who plays him as just a really chill dude with a feminine voice. She didn't mind the Dragon girl being waifu-fied but she did cry foul over Demon Lord girl with her barely there, butt crack showing, about-to-slip-any-minute panties.
But let's see, standouts from the last couple years for me? I probably should use my anime list sometime but I'm so lazy. Off the top of my head:
Sakura Quest
Centaur's Life
Pop Team Epic
Konohana Kitan
Snow White with the Red Hair
Bed and Breakfast for Spirits
New Game
Gamers
Aggretsuko
High Score Girl
and maybe recently Zombie Land Saga. But I can see where esserius is coming from. Those I just listed are good but hardly like some medium defying standouts or something.
It's funny you mention Dragon Maid. I've been really curious about it recently. Yes I've heard it's "bad" but seeing the incel/gamergate/istandwithvic types STILL grilling Jamie Marchi over her dub script for the series make me think there's probably a change or two for the better.
She was the first sign that something wasn't right with 3. I felt relieved when she put on the jacket but...yeah, 3 was a fall from grace for that series...the beginning of the end of Visceral.On a whim I'm playing Dead Space 3 again (the co-cop and space stuff is really good, sue me) and I kinda forgot about the character/design assassination they pulled on a side character.
Ellie in Dead Space 2:
Ellie in Dead Space 3:
Aside from the implants, her whole demeanor is blown up into something really shitty. She was extremely resourceful and capable in 2. In 3...she kinda sucks (well, so far, haven't finished it yet and I may have forgotten her being cool again).
I think it toned down the extent of one of the side characters being into little boys, I yikes out of the series after all that, even if the main character and dragon maid girl dymanic was cute for the first two episodes.
Imagine going to school to learn how to draw at a competitive and professional level, you finally start standing out from the crowd and get the rare opportunity to go work as a professional artist, and then you get paid to throw away everything you've learned about composition and perspective just to appease some horny dudes.
So I have a confession to make. Both my SO and I purchased and have been enjoying DoA6. We're not drooling over any of the questionable stuff on display, but I can't help but feel like a hypocrite of sorts. Just now I googled some related stuff and eventually came across this gem here hosted on another site:
Some men really are horny ass losers. I didn't even honor the page with a click, but you can all imagine them ranting about SJWs wanting to hide women's bodies from the world. They must be relieved the game didn't turn out at all like that.
Even so, I have to say that I don't think the series is the worst offender among fighting games anymore. At the very least, the standard costumes for most fighters is really respectable and cool. I cannot say the same for Tekken, or Street Fighter and Soul Calibur especially. It's a shame DoA's monetization revolves around throwing all self-respect of the female fighters out of the window. Ain't really any winners here.
Some men really are horny ass losers. I didn't even honor the page with a click, but you can all imagine them ranting about SJWs wanting to hide women's bodies from the world. They must be relieved the game didn't turn out at all like that.
Even so, I have to say that I don't think the series is the worst offender among fighting games anymore. At the very least, the standard costumes for most fighters is really respectable and cool. I cannot say the same for Tekken, or Street Fighter and Soul Calibur especially. It's a shame DoA's monetization revolves around throwing all self-respect of the female fighters out of the window. Ain't really any winners here.
Honestly the main problem I have with all this stuff is the sexuality being passively injected into games, where it's just an accepted part of the world that's never commented on and seen as normal. Even if I don't always agree with their designs I can appreciate games that are honest about what they're doing like bayonetta and even nier. No fancy justifications or excuses, just "I wanted to make a cute girl" even if you hate 2B I can appreciate that there is no dumb "artistic integrity" arguments to be made.
This will sound bad, but a big reason a lot of character designs in video games seem like they were made by horny teenagers is because the designers are horny teenagers. And they became famous at some point for that and just said, "well I'm famous for this, I'll just do more of this." And there's never really been a market correction where the gaming community has collectively said, "hey, that's kinda fucked up." Instead the reaction has pretty much been quite the opposite, where for the most part it's actively encouraged. The media never really matured (or at least it hasn't so far), and this includes Western video games.
And I'd argue, some designers, and some of the gaming community, never matured (thusly, we get Dead or Alive 6 and THQ Nordic conversing on 8chan).
Haha. It is not as rare as you might think. In Japan, many successful artists or mangaka started their careers in hentai/doujin circles, for example.
The female cast in Aggretsuko is fantastic. A friend and I recently cosplayed as Secretary Washimi and Director Gori. 👍
This isn't exactly new, I don't think, because I remember hearing this title a decent while ago. But, this sponsored Facebook post from Play-Asia went by my feed, and it was spit-take worthy.
Like...holy hell. What's going on? lol
Same energy.
Did anyone mentioned the anime, Chihayafuru? It's definitely an underappreciated series.
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I bought like two volumes of bakuman since I heard great things about it but when I actually went through it and saw how it viewed women, it kinda just creeped me out, doubt there's gonna be anything as overt as the bullshit rhetoric in chapter 1 but don't know if I'm willing to continue.
Assuming the person wasn't a troll, should posters who don't empathise with the points made in the thread be banned? I'm sure there are people who just don't get the points being made but I'm not sure banning them is the best course of action.
At the end of the day, trolling or sincere, bigotry still hurts people. It's not the responsibility of this forum to educate bigoted people.
I guess it depends on if they want to engage in discussion. Its hard to tell over the Internet.
To be fair, this is common in lots of art. See: being a pianist and having 99% of people want you to play the latest anime OP.
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