dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Homelander = Obama on its own is a high school level media studies/english essay take, but it's a valid interpretation all the same. The point is, Obama should not be excluded from the critiques of power The Boys is interested in.

I watched the first episode and thought it was neat. I'll probably binge through it when I'm randomly in the mood like two years later.

Agreed. It's not a direct comparison nor should it be. Homelander is America as a whole with a particular focus on drone warfare which means Obama mentions, but it's not a direct Obama parallel. It's not Carcetti == Martin O Malley The Wire here, and the show isn't trying to be as real as that and it lets you know.

No one person on the show directly parallels Trump, but you can see the characteristics and speech shared among several characters. Same for Amazon. And the same for Obama imo. Viewers were definitely thinking of Obama when Stan Edgar said his famous line about exercising restraint. Stan himself is nowhere near a 1:1 parallel, but black man in power having to be calm and collected and not acting like a thug is good enough for many to compare. Can find similar stuff with Homelander because that whole drones==superheroes connection is undeniable, along with the propaganda and lies that keep them going in real world an on The Boys.


No. This is what Liberals, Centrists, and Conservatives want you to think. I used to think this as well. The U.S. war machine isn't inevitable; it's just that we've never had anyone in office willing to fully oppose it. Obama was a centrist. So of course he frames himself as having no other option than to drone a bunch of brown people.

It's guilt reduction. Obama had generals telling him that he was on a bad track with drones 1 month after his inauguration. His diplomacy via drone warfare was challenged by activists, journalists, and his own admin through the years. Even Holder himself threw shade at the drone policy in 2013

He was constantly warned about what he was leaving for his successor as well. It's why that summer of 2016 Obama started trying to reign in his extrajudicial murder program. And then Trump became president and all those warnings and such became reality.
 

rashbeep

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,558
Who are y'all talking about in this thread? So many people equating trying to keep a thread on topic with "caping and handwaiving his crimes." Absolutely not.

If we want to turn threads into the content of a character rather than the content of the OP, then that's fine. It's just disappointingly redundant. We all know he's a war criminal, what's the point of saying it in every thread? What are we adding by stamping that in every thread? What's the point of any threads relating to Obama then?

I'm not referring to posts about the irony of his liked shows. It's the drive by posts.

what do the vapid "he has excellent taste" posts add exactly
 
Oct 27, 2017
13,049
Are you suggesting you do care about the hundreds of thousands of lives lost to US foreign policy? Cause you have a funny way of showing it.

The show is a critique of US foreign policy in many ways. People are pointing out the irony of Obama enjoying a show that is critical of actions taken by the US government, including his own. It's definitely related to the discussion at hand.

No, people are literally comparing Obama to Homelander and it's an idiotic take that lacks nuance or distinction here. And honestly, it comes off as performative from posters who believe they're paragons of virtue - like it often does in most threads on this forum, regardless of the topic.

The show is an examination of a lot of thematic issues seeing as it's a naked and obvious allusion to white supremacy masquerading as patriotism, American imperialism as well as the corporate and cultural systems that are designed to uphold these structures of a white, evangelical establishment whose grievances against those they subjugate are literally built into the country's DNA. Homelander is literally a representation of America - the genocide the country was founded upon, the backs of indentured servitude it was built on, the religious zealotry that encouraged it and the people who have, and continue, to profit off of it while engaging in performative stunts in order to assuage the perception that they aren't who they show and tell us they are. AniHawk rightly points out that the 2nd season is more focused on being a satirical exposition of domestic politics (justice separate from the law, due process only for some), society and the effect vitriolic radicalization has on its people and their hate/suspicion of those who aren't American -- and, as a result, how it has defined American foreign policy in the 21st Century even though the show hasn't really done much more than chewed around the edges here yet.

President Obama utilized tools and agencies -- foreign and domestic terrorism, against people who have been vilified and dehumanized in the American psyche. Literally nobody is denying or justifying this. Is it abhorrent? Of course. Should we ignore it? Obviously not. We're also talking about a show that explores these issues intelligently and looks at injustice, manipulation, corruption and how they serve as the backbone of a cynical, cowardly society and hero worship of an organization and its heroes that have normalized and weaponized it. If you're ignoring all of that, the show and its message is being lost on you as a viewer.
 
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Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
Was there not enough Lovecraft in Lovecraft Country for you Obama?

We're watching you.


what do the vapid "he has excellent taste" posts add exactly
A view of the consensus or if you're interested in discussing the mentioned shows, a jumping off point for those who want to disagree.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
President Obama utilized tools and agencies -- foreign and domestic terrorism, against people who have been vilified and dehumanized in the American psyche. Literally nobody is denying or justifying this. Is it abhorrent? Of course. Should we ignore it? Obviously not. We're also talking about a show that explores these issues intelligently and looks at injustice, manipulation, corruption and how they serve as the backbone of a cynical, cowardly society and hero worship of an organization and its heroes that have normalized and weaponized it. If you're ignoring all of that, the show and its message is being lost on you as a viewer.
Right, which is exactly why people are bringing up Obama's war crimes in response to a thread and an article that leans into hero worship of a man who caused irreparable harm to thousands of people. You don't see the connection there? Obama has consistently normalized and weaponized the hero worship of himself to paper over his failures and crimes committed as president. He literally just released a book which does exactly that, that engages in racist essentialism of an entire group of people to justify his slaughter of thousands of innocents. For you to see this very cogent and relevant critique, and then turn around and call it performative...suggests that the message is being lost on you.
 
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AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,327
Right, which is exactly why people are bringing up Obama's war crimes in response to a thread and an article that leans into hero worship of a man who caused irreparable harm to thousands of people. You don't see the connection there? Obama has consistently normalized and weaponized the hero worship of himself to paper over his failures and crimes committed as president. He literally just released a book which does exactly that, that engages in racist essentialism of an entire group of people to justify his slaughter of thousands of innocents. For you to see this very cogent and relevant critique, and then turn around and call it performative...suggests that the message is being lost on you.

it feels really like a broad 'gotcha' moment to take this critique of american culture and american exceptionalism (and more recently american white nationalism) and apply it specifically to obama. you could make the same critique of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, who voted for obama-era ndaa bills should they also come out and enjoy the same show that points out the issues of american hero worship. it's not a show that's specifically critiquing obama, so it doesn't come across like he's an idiot for enjoying it the same way trump would be for enjoying 'how to survive a plague'. at least that's my disconnect with the criticism.

and for the people who wonder why americans, and posters in this thread 'ignore' or 'don't care' about people abroad - they probably don't boil down obama's presidency into this element of his foreign policy. in my adult life, i've had three us presidents in charge and leading policy. you had neoconservatives at the top led by gwb and dick cheney in my earliest of adult years - one who was super inept in every major crisis that came his way and one who was a coldly calculating profit-hungry monster and both who cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives abroad, normalized torture, and whose ineptitude led to the disastrous response to hurricane katrina and the 2008 recession.

since 2017, we've had white supremacy all day every day, with a malignant tumor pulsing poison through twitter into the news relentlessly in this absolute nightmare world that we live in. if i were to draw a venn diagram of 'the least stressful times of my adult life' and 'the obama administration', it would basically be a complete circle. because when i remember back on the obama administration, i tend to think of passing the aca, creating daca, supporting the advancement of gay rights, nuclear disarmament, and if i were to describe a feeling to it... probably missed opportunity, with a healthy dose of naivete surrounding obama himself. more like jfk (how he actually was - not the mythic figure he's become) and less like fdr in that sense. a lot of the blame i lay a the feet of the republican white supremacists who refused to work for him or the american people, but he also deserves blame for some blame when he kept trying to kick that football. since his presidency, i'd say he was a lot more concerned with politics in a way that, say, joe biden probably had more honest concern for just doing/saying the right thing (supporting gay rights being the one example here). but overall he's less of a hero to me and more of a representation of america doing a lot better than the republicans his presidency was sandwiched between. an america that was not good, but on the right track.

so i've tried to stay on topic since these are good shows that i've generally enjoyed. i didn't mean to derail it by wall-o-texting, but hopefully this gives some context to my thought process and maybe the mindset of others.
 
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Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
it feels really like a broad 'gotcha' moment to take this critique of american culture and american exceptionalism (and more recently american white nationalism) and apply it specifically to obama. you could make the same critique of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, who voted for obama-era ndaa bills should they also come out and enjoy the same show that points out the issues of american hero worship. it's not a show that's specifically critiquing obama, so it doesn't come across like he's an idiot for enjoying it the same way trump would be for enjoying 'how to survive a plague'. at least that's my disconnect with the criticism.

and for the people who wonder why americans, and posters in this thread 'ignore' or 'don't care' about people abroad - they probably don't boil down obama's presidency into this element of his foreign policy. in my adult life, i've had three us presidents in charge and leading policy. you had neoconservatives at the top led by gwb and dick cheney in my earliest of adult years - one who was super inept in every major crisis that came his way and one who was a coldly calculating profit-hungry monster and both who cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives abroad, normalized torture, and whose ineptitude led to the disastrous response to hurricane katrina and the 2008 recession.

since 2017, we've had white supremacy all day every day, with a malignant tumor pulsing poison through twitter into the news relentlessly in this absolute nightmare world that we live in. if i were to draw a venn diagram of 'the least stressful times of my adult life' and 'the obama administration', it would basically be a complete circle. because when i remember back on the obama administration, i tend to think of passing the aca, creating daca, supporting the advancement of gay rights, nuclear disarmament, and if i were to describe a feeling to it... probably missed opportunity, with a healthy dose of naivete surrounding obama himself. more like jfk (how he actually was - not the mythic figure he's become) and less like fdr in that sense. a lot of the blame i lay a the feet of the republican white supremacists who refused to work for him or the american people, but he also deserves blame for some blame when he kept trying to kick that football. since his presidency, i'd say he was a lot more concerned with politics in a way that, say, joe biden probably had more honest concern for just doing/saying the right thing (supporting gay rights being the one example here). but overall he's less of a hero to me and more of a representation of america doing a lot better than the republicans his presidency was sandwiched between. an america that was not good, but on the right track.

so i've tried to stay on topic since these are good shows that i've generally enjoyed. i didn't mean to derail it by wall-o-texting, but hopefully this gives some context to my thought process and maybe the mindset of others.
How is it a gotcha? The thread is about Obama watching the show. He embodies the very thing being critiqued. People are pointing that out. It's not difficult to understand.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Right, which is exactly why people are bringing up Obama's war crimes in response to a thread and an article that leans into hero worship of a man who caused irreparable harm to thousands of people. You don't see the connection there? Obama has consistently normalized and weaponized the hero worship of himself to paper over his failures and crimes committed as president. He literally just released a book which does exactly that, that engages in racist essentialism of an entire group of people to justify his slaughter of thousands of innocents. For you to see this very cogent and relevant critique, and then turn around and call it performative...suggests that the message is being lost on you.

Yeah, it's a lazy strawman to say that we're just simply comparing Obama to Homelander like some 1:1. We've had these discussions in the show's OT as nothing is 1:1 there, but that doesn't prevent us from seeing some similarities between characters and real life and being able to talk about it.

my first reply in this thread:
lmao. That whole episode with the negligent killing and the aftermath of it was about as on the nose as you can get with a drone murder parallel.

Homelander is a representation of America, but he's still the nicer version of what this country has been in just the last 20 years. Homelander doesn't have a Yemen or a Libya under his belt, yet.
But it is interesting to see the justifications for mass murder and atrocities in this show, and see that same shit play out in real life with the murderous stuff USA gets up into.

And hey, Obama as CiC during a lot of that is going to get mentioned. But Obama's honor must be protected at all times, even on random online videogame forums.

Like the man will already escape any and all consequences for his murderous bullshit and constant lies. So we can at least allow the plebs to vent a little bit about it, instead of tone policing them or going "well actually" in an attempt to shift conversation from the subject (Obama) onto why powerless rando #143221 isn't showing the right amount of deference when uttering Obama's name and speaking on his record in some puff piece.

it feels really like a broad 'gotcha' moment to take this critique of american culture and american exceptionalism (and more recently american white nationalism) and apply it specifically to obama. you could make the same critique of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, who voted for obama-era ndaa bills should they also come out and enjoy the same show that points out the issues of american hero worship. it's not a show that's specifically critiquing obama, so it doesn't come across like he's an idiot for enjoying it the same way trump would be for enjoying 'how to survive a plague'. at least that's my disconnect with the criticism.

So if someone wanted to call out Bernie/Liz for liking some entertainment in some entertainment piece puff thread made for them, then pop off. They're rich, powerful, and can take it. But just know with Obama here, we aren't criticizing simply policies or bills he signed his name to.

And Obama did some good, sure. But some really tragically bad stuff also happened, bad stuff that gets whitewashed and excused in a similar manner that we see of conservatives doing for the GOP. All for what?

Speaking more on just Obama himself, Cornell West gets to the heart of it:
Lithub: Cornel West on Why James Baldwin Matters More Than Ever
CW: Mmmhmm. But you know what, things have changed since Obama in regard to that claim. We know based on empirical data that historically black people have been the most anti-war constituency in the history of the nation. After six and a half years with a black president, a black face at the head of the American Empire, the black community waving the flag, defending Obama, defending the status quo… more pro-war. That quick. That fast.
If Obama wants to undermine Libya and kill Gaddafi, wave the flag. We protect a black president. If Obama wants to drop bombs on seven countries that happen to be Muslim, we wave the flag and defend the black president. You see, all of a sudden now, blackness becomes, in part, of species of blindness in regard to moral integrity. It's just a matter of success: he won, he won, we've got to defend him. It's a beautiful thing he won, especially given who he was running against, but Baldwin's about integrity. He's about moral consistency. 25,000 bombs dropped year after year under Obama. What did black spokesmen say? Not a mumbling word. Would Baldwin have spoken out? Hell yes. How come? Because he's got moral integrity. He's not concerned about popularity. That's a shift.​
What happened about the critique of the Empire? We no longer launch a critique at the empire when there's a black face running it? But when there's a white face running it we still militant and resistant? That's what Baldwin would be radically calling into question. That changes our moment. We're in a post-Obama moment, which is a neo-fascist moment linked to Trump and Bannon and others, but we also are dealing with a black community very different than what Baldwin was talking about. We're dealing with a black community that was involved in symbolic celebration but concrete hibernation in terms of critique of empire, critique of wealth inequality, critique of class inequality and so forth, you see.​

Obama is treated like a modern day superhero. The Boys has a lot to say about how superheroes are kinda shit and self-important and lie and kill at will with zero oversight. Comparisons are going to be drawn just on that considering the absolute magnitude of what we're talking about. Years and years of human rights abuses and murders and congressional hearings about said murders that were ignored, and followed up with more murder and lying.
The superheros == drone connection just helps make it even more relevant to Obama and why his name might get brought up.
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,327
Yeah, it's a lazy strawman to say that we're just simply comparing Obama to Homelander like some 1:1. We've had these discussions in the show's OT as nothing is 1:1 there, but that doesn't prevent us from seeing some similarities between characters and real life and being able to talk about it.

my first reply in this thread:


And hey, Obama as CiC during a lot of that is going to get mentioned. But Obama's honor must be protected at all times, even on random online videogame forums.

Like the man will already escape any and all consequences for his murderous bullshit and constant lies. So we can at least allow the plebs to vent a little bit about it, instead of tone policing them or going "well actually" in an attempt to shift conversation from the subject (Obama) onto why powerless rando #143221 isn't showing the right amount of deference when uttering Obama's name and speaking on his record in some puff piece.

i know what bothers me is that i get lumped in with some nebulous blob for not caring about the people killed under obama's orders, some nefarious cabal of blind hero-worshipers no better than the maga chuds who legitimately believe trump is a kind person with a good heart (this continues to blow my mind). but i don't consider obama a war criminal above all else. not anymore than i would consider sanders a warmongerer for signing off on obama-era defense bills. it's not even that i know that it happened and then ignore it - i don't know that it happened to begin with because i was generally disengaged from that era of politics because things seemed to be generally going in the right direction (outside of republican obstructionism, mainly). it wasn't happening as fast or as hard as i wanted it, but things pointed to progress. that's at least the feeling i get when i look back on that era of american politics. shoulda been better, coulda been worse.

as for the read of homelander = drones like... is he supposed to be drones? the american military? american mercenary/oversea murder forces? america as a whole? white america? american leadership? he can't be all things (unless he's just 'america' i guess, and changes to become the other things). and if you're arguing about the death of civilians part being a clear example of drone strikes - it doesn't track because americans specifically weren't angry about it. if they knew, then they didn't care because we'd been killing brown people by the tens of thousands earlier. maybe it's a failing of the writers of the boys, but i think to drive home a satirical look at the american take on drone strikes would have been to have people not react to it en masse. like, you'd have a scene where vought and homelander are concerned for a moment, trying to hide the footage from getting out, and then it does and it barely makes a blip, or it makes people like him more.

So if someone wanted to call out Bernie/Liz for liking some entertainment in some entertainment piece puff thread made for them, then pop off. They're rich, powerful, and can take it. But just know with Obama here, we aren't criticizing simply policies or bills he signed his name to.

And Obama did some good, sure. But some really tragically bad stuff also happened, bad stuff that gets whitewashed and excused in a similar manner that we see of conservatives doing for the GOP. All for what?

Speaking more on just Obama himself, Cornell West gets to the heart of it:
Lithub: Cornel West on Why James Baldwin Matters More Than Ever
CW: Mmmhmm. But you know what, things have changed since Obama in regard to that claim. We know based on empirical data that historically black people have been the most anti-war constituency in the history of the nation. After six and a half years with a black president, a black face at the head of the American Empire, the black community waving the flag, defending Obama, defending the status quo… more pro-war. That quick. That fast.
If Obama wants to undermine Libya and kill Gaddafi, wave the flag. We protect a black president. If Obama wants to drop bombs on seven countries that happen to be Muslim, we wave the flag and defend the black president. You see, all of a sudden now, blackness becomes, in part, of species of blindness in regard to moral integrity. It's just a matter of success: he won, he won, we've got to defend him. It's a beautiful thing he won, especially given who he was running against, but Baldwin's about integrity. He's about moral consistency. 25,000 bombs dropped year after year under Obama. What did black spokesmen say? Not a mumbling word. Would Baldwin have spoken out? Hell yes. How come? Because he's got moral integrity. He's not concerned about popularity. That's a shift.​
What happened about the critique of the Empire? We no longer launch a critique at the empire when there's a black face running it? But when there's a white face running it we still militant and resistant? That's what Baldwin would be radically calling into question. That changes our moment. We're in a post-Obama moment, which is a neo-fascist moment linked to Trump and Bannon and others, but we also are dealing with a black community very different than what Baldwin was talking about. We're dealing with a black community that was involved in symbolic celebration but concrete hibernation in terms of critique of empire, critique of wealth inequality, critique of class inequality and so forth, you see.​

Obama is treated like a modern day superhero. The Boys has a lot to say about how superheroes are kinda shit and self-important and lie and kill at will with zero oversight. Comparisons are going to be drawn just on that considering the absolute magnitude of what we're talking about. Years and years of human rights abuses and murders and congressional hearings about said murders that were ignored, and followed up with more murder and lying.
The superheros == drone connection just helps make it even more relevant to Obama and why his name might get brought up.

i'm not a black person, but i think part of the appeal of obama to a certain part of the population is that he represents that a nonwhite guy can become the 'leader of the free world.' after centuries of brutal oppression, there's finally this proof that it doesn't always have to be the same as it's always been. i'm not sure if that makes him a superhero, but when he's constantly under attack from the right, then defenses go up and there's not a need to attack from the left - especially if he's seen more commonly as deescalating things in general.

obama became a symbol before he was even president. the same happened with trump and sanders. people projected their values and hopes onto them, right or left, with good or ill intent. if the point is about the boys's main argument that you should never 'meet your heroes' then fine? but that broader theme isn't what obama's being called out here for. the boys and watchmen are in particular trump-era shows and represent the anxieties of the current culture, not something from four+ years ago. the boys actually being this comment on obama-era drone strikes or bush-era mercenary groups makes the show feel dated and i think it's actually well past that.

also, i think if you wanted to point out obama hypocrisy, it would be easier to tie in his comments about those shows calling out corporate power and capitalism.
 

SigSig

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,777
pls don't make me feel bad about my favorite president he's cool and he fist-bumps people and he said the drone strikes were necessary also I really like the boys :(
 

Tomohawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,014
it feels really like a broad 'gotcha' moment to take this critique of american culture and american exceptionalism (and more recently american white nationalism) and apply it specifically to obama. you could make the same critique of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, who voted for obama-era ndaa bills should they also come out and enjoy the same show that points out the issues of american hero worship. it's not a show that's specifically critiquing obama, so it doesn't come across like he's an idiot for enjoying it the same way trump would be for enjoying 'how to survive a plague'. at least that's my disconnect with the criticism.

and for the people who wonder why americans, and posters in this thread 'ignore' or 'don't care' about people abroad - they probably don't boil down obama's presidency into this element of his foreign policy. in my adult life, i've had three us presidents in charge and leading policy. you had neoconservatives at the top led by gwb and dick cheney in my earliest of adult years - one who was super inept in every major crisis that came his way and one who was a coldly calculating profit-hungry monster and both who cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives abroad, normalized torture, and whose ineptitude led to the disastrous response to hurricane katrina and the 2008 recession.

since 2017, we've had white supremacy all day every day, with a malignant tumor pulsing poison through twitter into the news relentlessly in this absolute nightmare world that we live in. if i were to draw a venn diagram of 'the least stressful times of my adult life' and 'the obama administration', it would basically be a complete circle. because when i remember back on the obama administration, i tend to think of passing the aca, creating daca, supporting the advancement of gay rights, nuclear disarmament, and if i were to describe a feeling to it... probably missed opportunity, with a healthy dose of naivete surrounding obama himself. more like jfk (how he actually was - not the mythic figure he's become) and less like fdr in that sense. a lot of the blame i lay a the feet of the republican white supremacists who refused to work for him or the american people, but he also deserves blame for some blame when he kept trying to kick that football. since his presidency, i'd say he was a lot more concerned with politics in a way that, say, joe biden probably had more honest concern for just doing/saying the right thing (supporting gay rights being the one example here). but overall he's less of a hero to me and more of a representation of america doing a lot better than the republicans his presidency was sandwiched between. an america that was not good, but on the right track.

so i've tried to stay on topic since these are good shows that i've generally enjoyed. i didn't mean to derail it by wall-o-texting, but hopefully this gives some context to my thought process and maybe the mindset of others.
Just because Bernie and Warren are complicit in certain ways does not excuse or lessen obama's complicity. Your creating a false equivalency, there are levels to bad behaviour and the mere fact that Obama authorized drone strikes on innocent civilians makes him worse. It would be like saying we can't criticize trump's child separation policy because of obama's border separation policy
 

Discontent

Member
May 25, 2018
4,232
Jimmy Dores broad critique of Obama may be good, but he gets a lot wrong and often veers hard into conspiracy. I would recommend majority report for better critiques of Obama era foreign policy in the same lane as Dore.

Idk I've been watching him on and off for ages, what Obama conspiracies has he peddled?
 

AniHawk

No Fear, Only Math
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,327
Just because Bernie and Warren are complicit in certain ways does not excuse or lessen obama's complicity. Your creating a false equivalency, there are levels to bad behaviour and the mere fact that Obama authorized drone strikes on innocent civilians makes him worse. It would be like saying we can't criticize trump's child separation policy because of obama's border separation policy

i'm not trying to create an equivalency between them. obviously being a warmonger is not as bad as being a war criminal. being the accessory to a crime isn't the same as committing the crime yourself. the point i was hoping to make was that i wouldn't reduce my opinion of sanders or warren down to a single label based on that part of what they did when in power, and i don't think it's unreasonable to understand why so many don't do the same for obama.

trump's child separation policy fits into a broader pattern and lengthy history of dehumanizing and demonizing people of color. you can call him a racist, a bigot, and a white supremacist and use that as one of many, many examples why. that and his authoritarianism are the two defining aspects of his personality and presidency.
 

Tomohawk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,014
Idk I've been watching him on and off for ages, what Obama conspiracies has he peddled?
From what I recall it's mostly the Seth Rich stuff also a couple of women at tyt Emma and Francesca allude to him being a bit of a bully the latter of leaked dms that do not look good for jimmy. Broadly though alot of the left critique of him is he is a nihilist/accelorationist and often speaks on points he's poorly researched.
i'm not trying to create an equivalency between them. obviously being a warmonger is not as bad as being a war criminal. being the accessory to a crime isn't the same as committing the crime yourself. the point i was hoping to make was that i wouldn't reduce my opinion of sanders or warren down to a single label based on that part of what they did when in power, and i don't think it's unreasonable to understand why so many don't do the same for obama.

trump's child separation policy fits into a broader pattern and lengthy history of dehumanizing and demonizing people of color. you can call him a racist, a bigot, and a white supremacist and use that as one of many, many examples why. that and his authoritarianism are the two defining aspects of his personality and presidency.
That makes sense, but to those people I would say don't get offended if there are people who place more emphasis on certain aspects unless their willing to argue their importance.