What prevents Microsoft from matching Sony’s price on the high end?
- Thread starter Butt-shot Katana
- Start date
Let me guess. Microsoft can do all of these wonderful price maneuvers because of Microsoft Does what Sonydon't Reasons. Am I right with this assessment?
Yeah 549 to 599 cuz reasons uhhuhhuhhuh...
Watch how insipid Sony will look then when the floodgates of negative memes and reactions ala PS3 rush forth all over again.
Fun fact: PS3's BOM was around $840 to $905.
Also, Shuhei Yoshida called the PS3's price reveal "Horrifying."
www.youtube.com
Watch how insipid Sony will look then when the floodgates of negative memes and reactions ala PS3 rush forth all over again.
Fun fact: PS3's BOM was around $840 to $905.
Also, Shuhei Yoshida called the PS3's price reveal "Horrifying."
Sony: PS3 Price Reveal was “Horrifying”. PS5 2019 from Call of Duty Job Listing? - [LTPS #317]
Hey Sony has been doing a lot of talking lately! Not just Sony but also Sony's developers. Telling us so many interesting things about their upcoming games. ...
www.youtube.com
Last edited:
If Sony goes $399/$449, there's no reason MS couldn't drop the XSS/XSX prices by $50 each, and I think they should. At the very least, if they don't, and sales aren't flying off shelves, I imagine they'd do regular sales at those prices.
That's actually the reason I think Sony might not try to price super low, because MS could get aggressive, and it could just force everyone to be losing more money than they have to.THat could garner Sony a lot of goodwill moving towards launch though.
That's actually the reason I think Sony might not try to price super low, because MS could get aggressive, and it could just force everyone to be losing more money than they have to.THat could garner Sony a lot of goodwill moving towards launch though.
I really dont think some understand just how much the PS3 cost Sony.
Losing $50, $100 per console is chump change to the PS3 days. And online was free back then for them? Meaning no real extra revenue from PS+.
There are some significant differences between then vs now.
One big difference is the adaption of Cell vs faster SSD speeds, SSD's in general for game development.
Some ppl also might be overlooking the fact that for a possible mid gen refresh....Sony doesnt have to increase the SSD speed spec.....
OP
OP
But the point is that it really hurt them, didn't it? Can you imagine them doing it again?
Selling at loss isn't a problem by itself, the problem with the PS3 is that not only was being sold at MASSIVE loss(200+ per console), but they didn't had >nothing< to regain this loss, PSN was free and MTX was not even close to what is today.
This is totally the opposite of what is happening now: Sony is going to have losses with these consoles, but even if they sell the DE at 400 and the Disk at 500, this is a little more than 100 per console(+-), and now they have a HUGE source of revenue with the PSN.
OP
OP
Just the move from physical to digital probably helped over the course of the generation.
This might be the end game move, contract for consoles. Online market place in my country allow monthly payments, I can imagine Sony in my country will just announce a very high price and let the online merchants to fight for competitive monthly contracts...
Isn't the only bom estimate we have for the ps5 like $460? So if they do $399 and $499 pricing it doesn't seem like they will be doing it again, right?
OP
OP
Hasn't the so-called "Series V" been debunked.
And Microsoft doesn't?
They are already selling at a loss with hardware, not to mention there's been no indication gamepass is making a profit. They are already selling as low as possible to minimize losses. Yes, yes, I know, microsoft trillion dollars etc. But they have a trillion dollars because they don't throw away money.
Isn't Sony producing some parts for the system themselves? Like all that fancy SSD stuff? I'm sure they'll sell the console at a greater loss not counting the parts they are producing.
Plus how would it not be cheaper with all the weaker components? 😋
Of course. I was being high context when I mentioned a Sony. I figured MS was also a given.
This is not on you or anyone in particular, but Also, I find it odd and FUD like that people automatically dismiss any evidence that Sony might be bullish and aggressive with pricing and want to rush to MS's defense in response when someone says Sony could undercut them. You know, because of Microsoft Does What Sonydon't Reasons.
OP
OP
Why do you think it's as low as possible? Have numbers been published that indicate how much or whether MS is losing money on Game Pass?
If they recapture significant market share at the cost of loss on BOM (in the beginning of the gen, as it tends to normalize over time), how much is that worth in terms of future earnings on services?
OP
OP
Sony can be aggressive, but there are reasons why it might not be. Japanese companies are often conservative in ways American companies aren't, for instance. There's also the fact that Sony's other businesses aren't as healthy.
As the undisputed global market leader, Sony might have a more difficult time justifying the losses to shareholders, as every new percentage of gained market share is worth less as far as total growth is concerned. If Microsoft sacrifices front-end profit to move from 20% to 45% market share, that growth may be considered more valuable to shareholders, and it undoubtedly helps make something like Game Pass more profitable.
So yeah, Sony CAN undercut, but it's not as valuable to them as it is to Microsoft to gain market share, nor is it as detrimental for them to lose it. If Microsoft has another stinker of a generation, it might be completely locked out of the market.
I guess nothing... maybe if pre-orders were already up and running... but they could just refund the price cut or something
Series X|S pricing was going to be announced this week regardless of the leak last week. Microsoft had made up their minds without knowing PS5's price. I think they are confident in what they have announced.
They really put the squeeze on Sony and I don't think it's realistic to believe Sony can just respond to the Series S with the DE. They are very didn't machines. This was Microsoft's bet all along. They have left Sony with no other options other than to price match them while offering a weaker spec or bleed cash trying to undercut.
The circumstances that allowed for the PS4 price mic drop dont exist this time. $399 just doesn't seem viable. I think the DE will be $449, standard $499.
They really put the squeeze on Sony and I don't think it's realistic to believe Sony can just respond to the Series S with the DE. They are very didn't machines. This was Microsoft's bet all along. They have left Sony with no other options other than to price match them while offering a weaker spec or bleed cash trying to undercut.
The circumstances that allowed for the PS4 price mic drop dont exist this time. $399 just doesn't seem viable. I think the DE will be $449, standard $499.
From value perspective, Sony would easily do well with $449 and $499 pricing for the PS5/DE. People seem to accept $499 as a reasonable price for Series X, and PS5 would do well at that price point too.
If they go cheaper to undercut MS, that'd be great for us. I just think it'd be cutting off an arm just to save a leg.
Either way they go with the pricing, I think MS will not change their own prices. The Series S is untouchable at $299. Price cutting the Series X is unnecessary. They've already set up multiple cost saving avenues - Game Pass, All Access, and backwards compatible games + hardware. This is the beginning of a 7 year generation. Short-term reactions won't necessarily lead to long-term wins.
If they go cheaper to undercut MS, that'd be great for us. I just think it'd be cutting off an arm just to save a leg.
Either way they go with the pricing, I think MS will not change their own prices. The Series S is untouchable at $299. Price cutting the Series X is unnecessary. They've already set up multiple cost saving avenues - Game Pass, All Access, and backwards compatible games + hardware. This is the beginning of a 7 year generation. Short-term reactions won't necessarily lead to long-term wins.
Yeah, if you think Sony's announcing below $499 for the high end, you are probably going to be disappointed.
Maybe Microsoft drops the Series X price to the digital PS5 price, if it's only like a $50 difference - but even that seems unlikely.
Maybe Microsoft drops the Series X price to the digital PS5 price, if it's only like a $50 difference - but even that seems unlikely.
I think if anything any gap between the series X and the digital PS5 will be made up with bundled gamepass, not further price cuts. It aligns better to their strategy.
The idea of Sony suffering financially, especially in other areas is a myth extending as far back as the PS3 Gen. Also, Sony has almost always been willing to take a loss on hardware. They have paid PS Plus, which they didn't have in the PS3 days. They are the market leader, NOT Microsoft. Sony ramped up production to 10 million units!
Yeah, I only have a PS4 and a Switch and I plan on getting a standard PS5. I didnt have an Xbox since 360 because those didn't appeal to me. At least I'm not using the excuse of trying to even up the one sidedness in Sony's favor because I don't care in the end how Sony or MS do this gen.
I'm getting away from this thread. Putting it on ignore. There's no point arguing as this seems to be an Xbox centric thread where Microsoft can literally do no wrong and arrogant Sony is anti-consumer. I guess it's en vogue to hate on the market leader.
Last edited:
OP
OP
Is that why they used the term "estimated retail price" instead of "manufacturer's suggested retail price"?
:/
OP
OP
This isn't the airport. There's no need to announce your departure.
They matched Sony's price pretty quickly last time around with game sales. I may have the price wrong, but by March 2014 you could get a titanfall Xbox one kinect bundle for around $400. A few months after that MS removed kinect from the box, and the $399 became official, that holiday the Xbox one could be had for well bellow $350 depending where you bought it at. So if Sony goes $399 with the digital PS5, then I can see MS matching that price, or even releasing their own XSX digital.
The "Game of Chicken" narrative never made much sense to me, because you can't have your whole plan depend from your competitors actions, and Sony could just wait as well.
Whatever, random stranger on the internet. I don't care. Ignored!
What they are producing is not even close to disaster level
If you really care about this do some research and figure out why PS5 BOM is possibly lower than the XSX
They are using mostly similar components, it's really not that hard to draw derivatives.
I honestly think you are just trolling now.
They literally bleed on PS3 to push hardware man, what is this narrative even??, hell I'd say with Jim helming Playstation now it's more american than japanese but this is not a rabbit hole i'm willing to go down in as it's not even relevant here.
Your point counter your points lol
MS have made it clear they are willing to push GP at the cost of anything, you don't need an xbox use the MS ecosystem so your point on hardware losses is quite mute.
MS could certainly expand their market share away from the hardware for growth,
on the other hand, the only way you can get into playstation ecosystem is through a console, sony absolutely needs to push more than MS does.
I'm not going to look for the armsgunnar chart but
Software revenue (games, dlc, mtx, XBLG, ps+) >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hardware Revenue (cost of selling at even $599 probably)
This is why these companies are willing to take losses on pushing hardware, The gain on selling hardware at a profit is minuscule compared to being a platform, having cuts on every transactions and having paywalls, and you know who's got the largest platform?? ding ding Playstation.
They would absolutely take the loss if they need to, Jim already mentioned transitioning at a quick pace, they increased production, cerny mentioned how they had to make a console at a suitable cost,the PS5 IS A WEAKER SYSTEM and that is a fact, it's not stronger in anyway but SSD, I don't know why people keep expecting this to be more expensive at this point does the 3080 cost more than the 3090?? how is that so hard to grasp?
Before you come at me with but huh 'SSD, cooling'
we've had Bloomberg mentioned the cooling being just a dollar or so
and for the SSD? Google?
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15848/storage-matters-xbox-ps5-new-era-of-gaming
There let me help you.
Sony coming in at $599 is putting the cart before the horse literally and would be fun to watch lool
But the point of your thread, there's nothing stopping MS from doing that save common sense i guess but there's nothing stopping sony from responding either
let them all go to $99 :)
E: long post, blame the caffeine
Nintendo dropped the Gamecube price in the UK before launch, after initially announcing higher. It didn't really help them, but I don't think the price drop can be blamed for any of that.
This can't be for real, can it?? If you were going for ironic satire then you absolutely nailed it.
What is this new narrative implying that gamepass is a cost saving avenue ? Why is everyone thinking that gamepass is profitable atm ?
It's a big cost saving for the customer. I thought that was clear in my post.
Not to nitpick, but it's $450. Reliable insider said it's not significantly lower than Series X...but it is lower. Right now I just say Series X is $460. But....some of us have been saying if they both do $499 MS took a bigger loss. Its possibly MS took a bigger loss individually and collectively with their consoles. That's your war chest argument when ppl wanna being that up.
I hope that BOM gets posted. The PS3 BOM was waaaay higher than the retail price.
That's not happening this time for Sony. Just going by the BOM, at the most it could be a 30 hit. $430 for the DE, retail it at $399.
Too many are focusing on 100 difference when that is removing a part....whatever the total is, BOM plus other costs...its still minus the price of the disc drive.
What some ppl are suggesting is Sony remove the drive, but go for less of a hit retail. That's possible, that's what 449 for the DE would be. I think the plan for both Sony and MS was to take the bigger loss on the digital console.
So....it's depends on how violent Sony wants to be....
According to some people, they just have to take the controller out to save money since everyone owns a XBone controller, that's one option.
No one really cares what early adopters think. Microsoft canned Kinect not too long after launch of XB1X, Sony dropped prices on the PS3 the moment they noticed that they were not going to shift units at those prices.
Companies react to what sales are instead of what emotions some may harbor.
I'll quote myself from earlier:
PS3's price was also dropped only around 8 months after release, so you're definitely not totally correct in those statements.
Apple? They sell their hardware at an exorbitant profit, and if this is all they did, they would still be in the black.
Console business is all about using hardware sales to power commissions and services. No one will care early on about what happens in a console generation that is going to last 7 years as opposed to a phone market where there is a yearly product out. If the console is sitting on the shelves and not shifting units, the correct thing to do is to drop price to stimulate demand. No one in their right mind is going to wait several months to do that simply because a minority might get pissed.
I have been getting consoles when they are new and you will often see storage go up. Do I have a right to be mad? I sometimes get new games, and you will see a quality title annihilated when the release schedule is packed, thus a price drop not long after. Should I be mad?