Your social anxiety is not the fault of how women actually perceive you, in that case, so I'm not sure why you personally feel so aggrieved.
See this is what is wrong with some of you....no need to get like that. I'm not trying to be your enemy, like why be like that?No, i don't. If the word curfew bothers you, substitute with vacation. 'What if all men went on vacation?'. There, for the more sensitive ones.
That's the problem with painting in broad strokes. I've lived in 3 countries and I can honestly say I've never ever witnessed a cat call. Some women face terrible threats or objectification on a minute by minute basis, others may not experience it at all or to very little degree. That's not diminishing what they face but framing discussion in this manner really doesn't serve a purpose other than to polarize. No one is going to read this and go, oh there is a real solution here.
Among Australian women, 87 per cent experience sexual harassment in their lifetimes, with harassment ranging from catcalling and wolf-whistling to more severe forms such as groping and stalking.
What a weird way to frame the discussion then.This is not about stopping assault. It's about women sharing their feelings and emotions regarding being alone and vulnerable to men.
Gonna file this thread as Exhibit Z2 of the contrary when folks proclaim this place to be far left and super progressive
Honestly? That does not sound livable to me personally.Yep .Misses won't go to the mailbox without me accompanying her
The reality is that we're talking about two issues—the reality of being a woman out late at night and victimization stats, and the feeling of being a woman out late at night.How good is a hypothetical is 90% of the conversation is going to be pushback and then the pushback against the pushback?
This is a complicated issue for me. I'm a big black guy, so there's an advantage to that people just don't wanna fuck with you. For the longest time I unaware of how smaller women had like safety circles where they would have to call their friends after a certain time of night, just so they know they're safe. I had the privilege of not having to think about that.
But a lot of times, it don't feel like a privilege. I had the cops called on me for walking around the wrong(read: white) neighborhood late at night. I've had women do a fuckin 180 on the sidewalk when I was walking towards her. I've lost count how many clutched purses and locked car doors I've experienced just because I dared to exist in the same space as them. It makes you feel unwanted, like a mistake, that because of the color of my skin people will assume certain negative characteristics about you.
It fuckin sucks, frankly. I've been taught to never look suspicious, to not wear certain clothes, to not cause a scene cuz you don't want the police involved. I spent my whole life trying to make myself nice and friendly and unobtrusive to everybody, because In America a black man has to. And so no, when I read "maybe you should just stay inside, or disappear entirely", my first reaction ain't gonna be too understanding. I got just as much right to exist as anybody, lady.
Eh, I don't think it's any more controversial than "what if there were no men".
You can use the knowledge to empathise with what women go through and be more sympathetic in situations where you might think they are just being difficult or cowardly as individuals.
You can stop thinking of it as women being irrationally afraid of "good/normal guys" and how unfair that is for you, and start understanding that the burden of being wary of men and excessive self-awareness is still placed squarely on women by society, as we end up absorbing the blame for trusting men and get scrutinised over victimhood.
You can keep going out and just not take it too personally that some women might avoid you.
You can advocate for change by voting against openly misogynistic politicians and practices, and call out double standards and predatory behaviour if you're even in a secure enough position to do so.
Personally I don't think i'd live much differently if there were this curfew. At least not where I live right now. I walk home alone at night plenty as I know the town, but i also have enough irrational fear of like wolves and panthers and i guess lady muggers not to go wandering around cycle paths for funsies. Plus i'm a nerd and I hate excersize.
Fun fact one time this old dude was like A NICE GIRL LIKE YOU SHOULDNT BE WALKING ALONE AT THIS TIME and I was like OR YOULL WHAT EH?? Anyway I hope I don't get stabbed someday.
You should probably read the article.No thats a batshit idea. Laws on sexual assault need to be strictly enforced,strengthened and men need to be educated on appropriate behaviour toward women.
You seriously suggesting that women cannot feel safer in places that have less crime?
Tell me, what percentage of violent crimes in your country are committed by women?If you can't you are fucked either way. But this is a problem that doesn't just boil down to men or women
Tell me, what percentage of violent crimes in your country are committed by women?
Your social anxiety is not the fault of how women actually perceive you, in that case, so I'm not sure why you personally feel so aggrieved.
I understand what they're trying to get at,but it would be impossible to implement.
This reminds me of something similar I've read https://indianexpress.com/article/t...-being-sexually-assaulted-viral-list-5383285/
Where we take extra precautions over men.
Although I would argue it's not accurate. Men, especially poc, have to do this too I imagine.
Edit: added image
?With all due respect, you don't know if I'm a man or a woman... Nor do you know the life I've lived, so please.
It didn't need to. It opened a conversation, gave a voice for many women to give their input on how they feel and the numerous things they have to consider aside from most men on a day to day basis. It allows for better understanding for a lot of people, toward things they may not have been aware of. That is beneficial.There's nothing pathetic about taking issue with people painting a certain type of person with a broad brush, especially when the thought experiment really doesn't offer any reasonable solutions, just calls to attention the supposed shortcomings of an entire group of people...
This is why you're missing the point. It's literally not about the men in the discussion, at all. It's not about me, or any single guy and what they might or might not do. It's a question posed to give women an opening to explain the things they have to typically consider or refrain from doing on a day to day basis.I can empathise with women, I make every effort to be kind, to create a safe environment, to avoid walking behind women at night and if I saw someone harassing a woman - or anyone - you bed I'd step in. Many, many good men would do the same.
See this is what is wrong with some of you....no need to get like that. I'm not trying to be your enemy, like why be like that?
"In my own myopic personal experience as a man, I've never had to worry about that. Whats the problem here?"It's amazing to me that people aren't understanding the thought experiment here.
To rephrase it, think of it as "What would you do differently if you never had to worry about a man harming you?"
Not in this particular case.Arguing with stats can get pretty bad pretty fast. Just saying.
Not saying it is. All I'm merely offering is how I personally feel about the whole situation. I realize women have very good reasons to be afraid of me but it still doesn't make me feel any less awful.
Even if there was a curfew many predators would break the law anyway and still be outside.It's amazing to me that people aren't understanding the thought experiment here.
To rephrase it, think of it as "What would you do differently if you never had to worry about a man harming you?"
How are you still managing to evade the point?Even if there was a curfew many predators would break the law anyway and still be outside.
Why would we be complaining about the thought experiment itself?Y'all complain more about people not understanding the poorly framed thought experiment than the thought experiment itself.
Y'all complain more about people not understanding the poorly framed thought experiment than the thought experiment itself.
Hehehehehehe i see what u did thereEven if there was a curfew many predators would break the law anyway and still be outside.
Not sure what else you're expecting people to say. I thought the object of the thought experiment was to listen? Well, I read the testimonies, and now the only thing I can really add is that the wording of this hypothetical is to its own detriment."That's cute and all but as a guy let's talk about how this makes me feel bad"
"Yeh cool, but let's discuss the wording of the question"
I don't know, you definitely read it so why don't you tell us?Is that actually a serious thread and not just an alt-right meme making fun of feminism and the far left?
Not sure what else you're expecting people to say. I thought the object of the thought experiment was to listen? Well, I read the testimonies, and now the only thing I can really add is that the wording of this hypothetical is to its own detriment.
The recent topic that went into discussing this was interesting as the discussion continued to focus on what women felt, the differences in consideration that they have when around and about (and how illuminating certain ones were for men), and conversations people had had with their partners. Could be interesting points of discussion?Not sure what else you're expecting people to say. I thought the object of the thought experiment was to listen? Well, I read the testimonies, and now the only thing I can really add is that the wording of this hypothetical is to its own detriment.
It's the kind of ridiculous shit you see in alt-right memes.I don't know, you definitely read it so why don't you tell us?
Such as?
Care to make an actual comparison to one of the women's stories to an alt right meme?
I guess what I'm trying to do is depersonalize it for you.
Women aren't afraid of you. Many women feel an understandable anxiety when going out alone at night that is borne by previous experience and can prove mentally exhausting. Women may avoid confrontations with you, no matter how casual, not because they're afraid of you but because that's easier than the potential that you may harass or otherwise harm them mentally or physically. This avoidance actually has nothing to do with you personally and has everything to do with gender dynamics out of your control.
So you have a few options. You can be personally aggrieved and worry about these perceptions, or you can understand their existence and where they come from and continue to just be an okay dude who won't ever be mentioned in future women's stories about walking alone at night.
Or you can work to reverse gender dynamics by helping to educate young men so that the cycle of anxiety grinds to a halt.
Yup, it's important to discuss the inherent racial bias in a thought experiment like this.
Reversing the genders is disingenuous because it's completely ignoring the purpose of the hypothetical. I get what you are saying but I still think you are missing the point.Consider a man uttering the following statements:
"I wish there were no women."
"I wish all women had to wear leashes and collars."
Which comes off as worse?
Yes it's depressing.
Eh, I don't think it's any more controversial than "what if there were no men". It's only controversial if you are taking offense at the notion and not paying attention to the purpose of the thought experiment. As a matter of policy it would be illegal and unethical. As a hypothetical it serves to encourage discussion of the fears women experience every day.
I understand what they're trying to get at,but it would be impossible to implement.
This reminds me of something similar I've read https://indianexpress.com/article/t...-being-sexually-assaulted-viral-list-5383285/
Where we take extra precautions over men.
Although I would argue it's not accurate. Men, especially poc, have to do this too I imagine.
Edit: added image
Actually that makes me support a curfew more. If men have a curfew to lower sexual assaults, the people attempt to sexually harass/assault people would stand out.I think the funny part is that this curfew would only guarantee that every man you see at night is literally a criminal and probably a mugger/rapist. The person who made this unintentionally made a scenario where the fear of seeing a man at night is completely rational (not that it isn't already), but also much much larger.
Yeah this is a pretty bad thought experiment. I don't think any women should be offended when people call it shit because it is. I get the point of it (now), but I think it could've been done without being so edgey. It wasn't necessarily asking for this response, but you shouldn't be suprised now you've received it.
It's not really worth going to bat for the thought experiment or arguing over semantics. The point is where the power lies. Women feel constantly fearful of men. It's a shame this is how that's being expressed.
You're operating on the assumption that if it was framed just right all of a sudden all these men would become sympathetic and willing to partake in the discussion, you're inherently assuming the framework is the issue and not that the real issue is that all these discussions fail because ultimately men don;t actually want to listen to or have these discussions...But it obviously failed to do so. Like I said before, why put those thought experiments in the most outrageous ways possible? The only thing you create with this is stupid controversy.