Deleted member 6230

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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
I hold some views of personal accountability, but I also suggested warning labels be added to foods that are dangerous to your health, so no I would no describe myself as libertarian. It is important that the government ensures that companies provide full transparency of the products they put out. I dont believe we are there yet. But I am not going to wait for them to tell me that a cheesburger is bad for me. As someone pointed out, trying to pass off a granola bar as healthy is far more insididious that a company selling you a 99 cent cheeseburger.


I dont think we completely understand food science. Are eggs bad? Is it calories in vs calories out? I think satiety value seems to be the best measuring stick. We know the calories in fats, carbs, and proteins. We know that fats and proteins (along with fiber) keep you feeling full better than carbs do.
Then again what started this discussion is you posting the OG food pyramid as an example as to why you shouldn't listen to the government to solve this particular problem at least but in the process of doing that you're proving my point on the influence societies and government hold over its people.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,753
This is important, I don't think people truly realize how many calories they drink from things like soda every day. And unlike snack food, soda and sugary drinks don't fill you up at all, meaning they're completely empty calories that provide no sustenance and lead to you eating even more.
Soda really is the devil. I switched over to water and flavored seltzer and legit lost 20 pounds in like 2 months with zero other changes.
Education and regulations are nearly always the solution. What has lead to the reduction of cigarette usage in the US?
Another helpful thing would be financial incentives for weight loss. Like how car insurance goes up when you get in an accident, health insurance should go down as you lose weight or enroll in a healthy eating program or something.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,852
Every year I go backpacking out in California/Washington/Oregon, usually for around 2 weeks at a time. I set out with all my gear and about 5-6 days worth of food at a time, and plan my resupply points ahead of time. I do about 15-20 miles a day, at elevation, with 25+ pounds of gear, water, and food on my back.

The food that I pack is not healthy, and it's really kind of impossible to pack healthy foods. You can't really pack fruits or vegetables out there, nor would you want to. You need to calories and energy. As a result, the foods that I consume are pretty much pure junk. CLIF bars, candy bars, Pop Tarts, dehydrated rice dinners, candied almonds and nuts, etc. Really just processed junk. But, it's got a lot of calories and doesn't spoil, so it's pretty much all you can pack when you go out there for days on end. I usually pack around 3,000 calories worth of food per day, and I definitely need it. There are times where even after eating all my food, I still get into my sleeping bag at night and am hungry.

Here's the thing though - after my trips, I always lose weight. And not just one or two pounds. I'm talking 7-10 pounds over the ~2.5 weeks that I am out there. Despite eating 3,000 calories worth of pure junk per day, I'm still losing insane amounts of weight.

Over the years, I've had other friends and family join me on these expeditions. My dad, brother, friends, and cousins have all come with me at one point or another. And despite our differing BMIs and weights, the same thing happens to every single person - they all lose significant amounts of weight. Despite the fact that we're all eating thousands of calories worth of junk per day, everyone drops a ton of pounds. Because we're burning significantly more than we're bringing in each day.

And it all comes back to what we've heard time and time again - calories in, calories out. It's that simple. Obviously, going out and hiking in the mountains all day for 2.5 weeks isn't something someone can just randomly go out and do if they want to lose weight. But it does reinforce the importance of calorie management. Eating clean, healthy foods while cutting calories and exercise is the key to all of this.

The first line of treatment for chronic diseases like Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, etc, isn't medication or surgery. It's lifestyle changes. Almost half of all newly diagnosed type 2 diabetics can be managed with lifestyle modifications alone.

So many people just don't care though. They really don't. Fast foods, red meat, soda, alcohol, candy, fried stuff, sugar, etc. And no exercise. People don't want to change until they develop a chronic disease as a result of their habits, but sometimes not even that is enough. It's unfortunate but it's the current reality.
 

MrCheezball

Banned
Aug 3, 2018
1,376
Then again what started this discussion is you posting the OG food pyramid as an example as to why you shouldn't listen to the government to solve this particular problem at least but in the process of doing that you're proving my point on the influence societies and government hold over its people.

I felt the discussion was trending to too much of the blame was placed on corporations with only a government intervention being the solution. I wanted to remind people the government most certainly had a hand in the problem, and they are suseptible to folly.
 

Extra Sauce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,961
I absolutely still believe that personal responsibility is a huge part of getting on track. Yes, bad food is addictive. It's always been. Is it within your power to make better choices and stay disciplined. There are more healthy food choices available in a pinch than EVER before.

They're usually more expensive though. Unless you mean making your own shit, which requires time that is not always available to us lowly wage slaves.
 

zyvorg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
577
The whole system is designed to keep you away from cooking healthy foods, if its not the ease of fast food then it is being tired from working 10 hours a day plus 1 hour drive each way from work to home because you couldnt afford a place anywhere close to your place of work.

By the time you get home you are just about done with life.
 

Panic Freak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,590
Ban sodas and juices for children so that they don't grow up into grown adults who complain that water doesn't have flavor.

I could see how drinking less of that would be beneficial to your health. So what should the punishment be for mothers who give their kids soda or juice?

Education and regulations are nearly always the solution. What has lead to the reduction of cigarette usage in the US?

OK, so what does the education program look like? And what sort of regulations do we put in place? Bans, quotas, or something else?
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,124
Austria
Ban sodas and juices for children so that they don't grow up into grown adults who complain that water doesn't have flavor.
I was pretty shocked (legit, not sarcastic or exaggerating) when that one poster said this in a different thread:
I'll tell you what: it costs me less to buy soda than buying 1.75L (and shrinking size) of orange juice. "But drink water", yeah sure... you say that to someone that hates it because, well, it has no taste.
I never considered someone like this could exist. How can you hate water? It's so refreshing.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
Anyone else see a correlation?

Rich people telling poor people the reason they are poor is their own fault. All they need to do is work harder. "Personal antecdote" on how I got wealthy means everyone can do it easily! No need to try and change conditions so it is easier for everyone to succeed.

Fit people telling overweight people the reason they are overweight is their own fault. All they need to do is work harder. "Personal antecdote" on how I got fit means everyone can do it easily! No need to try and change conditions so it is easier for everyone to succeed.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,953
The whole system is designed to keep you away from cooking healthy foods, if its not the ease of fast food then it is being tired from working 10 hours a day plus 1 hour drive each way from work to home because you couldnt afford a place anywhere close to your place of work.

By the time you get home you are just about done with life.
Basically. Reliance on dual incomes means home cooking is something many people do less.
 
Oct 30, 2017
707
There are systemic issues relating to the obesity epidemic that include the nature of markets and predatory capitalism, but the framing of the article is a bit much

"Vile capitalists are plotting and scheming to trick you into being fat!" is not a piece of demagoguery I thought I'd see today
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
I could see how drinking less of that would be beneficial to your health. So what should the punishment be for mothers who give their kids soda or juice?



OK, so what does the education program look like? And what sort of regulations do we put in place? Bans, quotas, or something else?

None, just reduce the availability of soda/juices on a nationwide scale, ban it in fast food meals for kids, don't allow restaurants to serve sodas to kids, ban it from schools, don't allow shops to sell soda's to kids directly.

Treat it just like how you treat alcohol sales
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,124
Austria
I could see how drinking less of that would be beneficial to your health. So what should the punishment be for mothers who give their kids soda or juice?



OK, so what does the education program look like? And what sort of regulations do we put in place? Bans, quotas, or something else?
Don't do this. The whole "do you have a perfect plan with all the details ready for implementation? No? Then it's worthless" shtick.
Education and regulation clearly are the solution. The details are tricky, nobody is disputing that. But that's no "gotcha" moment.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Anyone else see a correlation?

Rich people telling poor people the reason they are poor is their own fault. All they need to do is work harder. "Personal antecdote" on how I got wealthy means everyone can do it easily! No need to try and change conditions so it is easier for everyone to succeed.

Fit people telling overweight people the reason they are overweight is their own fault. All they need to do is work harder. "Personal antecdote" on how I got fit means everyone can do it easily! No need to try and change conditions so it is easier for everyone to succeed.

Rich people and middle income America is also fat as fuck too you know

Being poor brings a higher risk of being obese, but rising obesity rates is happening everywhere regardless of income.

And I don't really see anything wrong with people who have managed to be fit and healthy give advice and be realistic that 99% of people can be a normal weight if they put a sizable amount of effort into it. Yes, depending on your situation it requires more/less effort, but that doesn't mean it's impossible or impractical.

Pretending that losing weight on an individualist scale is impossible or "impractical" is ridiculous. People are overweight because of caloric surpluses and extremely poor eating/drinking habits. Almost everyone can take individual actions to fix the issues that have caused their weight gain.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,367
OK, so what does the education program look like? And what sort of regulations do we put in place? Bans, quotas, or something else?

It actually is not my job to come up with policies to better society. That's the government's job and it's my responsibility to support representatives who offer policies that I agree with.

I support policies that educate the populations about the risk of overcompensation of things like: soda, fast food, junk food, etc. with specifics. Similar to the education done regarding the health risks of cigarettes. Regarding regulations, I would support banning corporations from overtly advertising to children and poor communities, at the very least.
 

HylianSeven

Shin Megami TC - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,325
I was pretty shocked (legit, not sarcastic or exaggerating) when that one poster said this in a different thread:

I never considered someone like this could exist. How can you hate water? It's so refreshing.
To be fair, I know plenty of people that will only drink sparkling water or flavored water. One of the people that was into sparkling water told me "Don't ever get sparkling water, you'll never want to drink regular water again."
 

WillRobBanks

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
421
Obviously the system is flawed, but the information is out there for folks to improve their own personal situation. I wish personal nutrition was a strong subject in schools, but I really had no clue that CICO was THE KEY to weight management. Like, I realized it was important, but I always gave a view to "fat makes you fat", I.e. twizzlers have no fat so they are fine. I was aware of a 2,000 daily calorie suggestion, but kind of shrugged it off
 

Panic Freak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,590
None, just reduce the availability of soda/juices on a nationwide scale, ban it in fast food meals for kids, don't allow restaurants to serve sodas to kids, ban it from schools, don't allow shops to sell soda's to kids directly.

Treat it just like how you treat alcohol sales

Should there be a licensing program for resturants to serve soda then?
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
I felt the discussion was trending to too much of the blame was placed on corporations with only a government intervention being the solution. I wanted to remind people the government most certainly had a hand in the problem, and they are suseptible to folly.
When trying to solve large scale macro problems you definitely need societal level solutions. You can't just rely on the willpower of individuals. Willpower is fickle and fleeting. This is like saying you can solve climate change by shaming everyone into riding bikes and being vegans.
 

Panic Freak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,590
Don't do this. The whole "do you have a perfect plan with all the details ready for implementation? No? Then it's worthless" shtick.
Education and regulation clearly are the solution. The details are tricky, nobody is disputing that. But that's no "gotcha" moment.

Education is great but I have to say, it's incumbent on the student to learn too. Thus, personal responsibility is always going to be part of the solution.

I don't want to hear your perfect, well thought out plan. I want to hear why personal responsibility isn't the answer.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
Rich people and middle income America is also fat as fuck too you know

Being poor brings a higher risk of being obese, but rising obesity rates is happening everywhere regardless of income.

And I don't really see anything wrong with people who have managed to be fit and healthy give advice and be realistic that 99% of people can be a normal weight if they put a sizable amount of effort into it. Yes, depending on your situation it requires more/less effort, but that doesn't mean it's impossible or impractical.

Pretending that losing weight on an individualist scale is impossible or "impractical" is ridiculous. People are overweight because of caloric surpluses and extremely poor eating/drinking habits. Almost everyone can take individual actions to fix the issues that have caused their weight gain.

No I think you missed my point. I am stating the accusatory attitudes displayed by fit people towards overweight people often mirrors the attitudes that rich people have towards the poor.

Instead of admitting there is a problem that is helping to cause inequality, the rich/fit person just blames the poor/overweight person for their shortcomings. Since they personally succeeded the only reason the other person didn't succeed is laziness. Nothing really needs to be changed except for the lazy person's work ethic for things to be improved.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,124
Austria
Education is great but I have to say, it's incumbent on the student to learn too. Thus, personal responsibility is always going to be part of the solution.

I don't want to hear your perfect, well thought out plan. I want to hear why personal responsibility isn't the answer.
You want to hear why something that's not working right now isn't the solution?
Because it's already not working.
Sure it can work anecdotally. It can work for individuals, like me. But it's not enough on a nationwide or worldwide scale, so if you want a solution that saves people from unhealthy lives, personal responsibility ain't it.
 

Paz

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,166
Brisbane, Australia
School lunches in some parts of the USA still consider the sauce on dominos pizza to be a serving of vegetables right?

Yeah personal responsibility is needed and on an individual level there are many factors at play but with such massive statistics it's obvious there needs to be more action outside of the personal level.
 

Panic Freak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,590
You want to hear why something that's not working right now isn't the solution?
Because it's already not working.
Sure it can work anecdotally. It can work for individuals, like me. But it's not enough on a nationwide or worldwide scale, so if you want a solution that saves people from unhealthy lives, personal responsibility ain't it.

Help me save me from myself? Maybe we should have rehab programs.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,753
Education is great but I have to say, it's incumbent on the student to learn too. Thus, personal responsibility is always going to be part of the solution.

I don't want to hear your perfect, well thought out plan. I want to hear why personal responsibility isn't the answer.
It comes down to creating systemic change to where there is an atmosphere where people are more likely to use their personal responsibility to make better choices, what we have right now is not that. It's a matter of conditioning and good societal structure.
Help me save me from myself? Maybe we should have rehab programs.
Sure, that might be helpful for people who cannot stop eating badly.
 

Balphon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,634
If the answer is "diets high in sugar because we put fucktons of sugar in everything" then I'm not surprised.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
People have known this for awhile. Processed food is garbage. Sweet, delicious, addictive, unfulfilling garbage. And we're literally eating it by the ton.

Once I cut that stuff out I started dropping fat like crazy. Go figure.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,699
In my country we've introduced big warning labels for food with high amounts of sugar, sodium and/or saturated fats.

When I walk around the supermarket basically everything has this labels plastered on them. I'm not sure if it's really going to do much, but it sure makes me more judicious when buying stuff now.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,753
In my country we've introduced big warning labels for food with high amounts of sugar, sodium and/or saturated fats.

When I walk around the supermarket basically everything has this labels plastered on them. I'm not sure if it's really going to do much, but it sure makes me more judicious when buying stuff now.
What do they look like?
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
the companies are actively trying to get people hooked, yes

but its not like people are entirely free of blame, drinking water instead of soda/softdrinks takes literally zero effort
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,699
What do they look like?
Similar to this
5a143ff4311f3.jpeg
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
No I think you missed my point. I am stating the accusatory attitudes displayed by fit people towards overweight people often mirrors the attitudes that rich people have towards the poor.

Instead of admitting there is a problem that is helping to cause inequality, the rich/fit person just blames the poor/overweight person for their shortcomings. Since they personally succeeded the only reason the other person didn't succeed is laziness. Nothing really needs to be changed except for the lazy person's work ethic for things to be improved.
You're seeing advice and education as accusations and blame. That is not the intent. Whether it's from people, doctors, or financial advisors, they are trying to help and not trying to belittle and criticize. Getting defensive about the problem is never going to solve the problem.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,753
That's actually really good, I would totally support that here.
but its not like people are entirely free of blame, drinking water instead of soda/softdrinks takes literally zero effort
Sure but you can't ignore the societal context that pushes people to make those decisions. They are guided into doing so purposefully, you can't really put the blame on people who are being brainwashed.