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Was there a point in Sekiro when all of the game's mechanics suddenly clicked for you?
- Thread starter ScOULaris
- Start date
The second general miniboss. But it helped that I largely didn't have Souls habits to unlearn.
Finally went back and played this three times in the last month to clear out (almost) all the achievements, and by the end I had tossed Kuro's charm and had reached a place of such command over the game that it felt amazing to do everything.
Finally went back and played this three times in the last month to clear out (almost) all the achievements, and by the end I had tossed Kuro's charm and had reached a place of such command over the game that it felt amazing to do everything.
tbh, I also practice a lot with the training dummy until I drilled the three habits into my head.
Dodge forward on thrust
Jump on sweep
Back up on grab
Dodge forward on thrust
Jump on sweep
Back up on grab
Yeah, my favorite bosses in the game are:
5. Guardian Ape
4. Genichiro
3. Emma/Isshin Ashina
2. Owl (Father)
1. Isshin, the Sword Saint
4. Genichiro
3. Emma/Isshin Ashina
2. Owl (Father)
1. Isshin, the Sword Saint
Gyoubu was the first time parrying and posture breaking really clicked with me - mostly thanks to his slow-ass swings.
But you're right that Genichiro definitely felt like the Neo moment. After that I knew this was one of my favourite games of all time.
Boss ranking, just 'cause:
But you're right that Genichiro definitely felt like the Neo moment. After that I knew this was one of my favourite games of all time.
Boss ranking, just 'cause:
- Owl v2
- Genichiro v2
- Isshin SS
- Owl v1
- Guardian Ape
- Lady Butterfly
- True Monk
- Divine Dragon
- Gyoubu Oniwa
- Corrupted Monk
- Demon of Hatred
- Folding Monkeys
I feel that when I first started the game, it was a little wonky in learning the combat properly. There's such a huge difference between the normal enemies and the bosses/mini-bosses. There were so many occasions where I felt that I had to clear out the push-over enemies, just to get another shot at, and learn the harder combat stuff.
I think the times when I got better was when there was a re-spawn point right outside a boss area - so it was quicker to retry and hone your skills. From memory, I think Lady Butterfly was the first fight where I could do that, and I suppose Genichiro is another good example later on.
I think the times when I got better was when there was a re-spawn point right outside a boss area - so it was quicker to retry and hone your skills. From memory, I think Lady Butterfly was the first fight where I could do that, and I suppose Genichiro is another good example later on.
Yep, Genichiro and the Seven Spear dude. Up to that point I had been mostly evading and attacking when I could, but that's definitely not the way you're supposed to play.
On my first try Genichiro slayed me, I tried a couple of times more and then I decided to travel to other locations. I got the mikiri counter and some other posture damaging skills, got experienced and once I returned I destroyed Genichiro, like I had him literally against the wall, poor dude couldn't land a single hit. Then again on Ng+ and Ng++.
I couldn't believe how easy it was, it was like he was moving at slow motion, some serious sharingan shit happening there lol.
One of the most satisfying wins I've ever had playing a videogame.
Same goes with the 7 lance Samurai, countering him and watching him tripped his fat ass to the ground was hilarious after so many brutal defeats.
On my first try Genichiro slayed me, I tried a couple of times more and then I decided to travel to other locations. I got the mikiri counter and some other posture damaging skills, got experienced and once I returned I destroyed Genichiro, like I had him literally against the wall, poor dude couldn't land a single hit. Then again on Ng+ and Ng++.
I couldn't believe how easy it was, it was like he was moving at slow motion, some serious sharingan shit happening there lol.
One of the most satisfying wins I've ever had playing a videogame.
Same goes with the 7 lance Samurai, countering him and watching him tripped his fat ass to the ground was hilarious after so many brutal defeats.
I'm gonna be honest here and say NG+ without the charm was the point where (I was basically forced to) learn the game completely and have it click. Having to perfect deflect every single attack to not have my health bar get nuked teaches you the game properly lol.
That being said, in terms of getting the general gist of the game, that was after going straight to Hirata as soon as it was possible and spending like 7 hours grinding against Lady Butterfly before I even saw the Chained Ogre at the outskirts. Once I beat her, it was kinda smooth sailing throughout the rest of the game, and it was satisfying killing her first try on NG+ even without the charm. I also only did Genichiro really late (I think practically as late as you can), so I definitely knew how the game worked by the time I got to him.
That being said, in terms of getting the general gist of the game, that was after going straight to Hirata as soon as it was possible and spending like 7 hours grinding against Lady Butterfly before I even saw the Chained Ogre at the outskirts. Once I beat her, it was kinda smooth sailing throughout the rest of the game, and it was satisfying killing her first try on NG+ even without the charm. I also only did Genichiro really late (I think practically as late as you can), so I definitely knew how the game worked by the time I got to him.
Yeah getting out of the habit of relying on dodging is really important in this game. It's not without it's uses but if you're going to try and use dodging like you would in other Souls games, you're going to have a bad time.
Yep, I love Sekiro, but the ape was too much for me.
"Clicked" as in understand the mechanics, Genichiro.
"Clicked" as in got easy to handle, never. The bosses are specifically built so that learning "the mechanics" themselves is just a requirement but doesn't really affect the difficulty much, it's not something you get "better" at. They're basically 90% memorizing their wonky-ass, confusing on purpose animations and their timing. So fighting a new boss is pretty much starting from scratch every time except with a couple of fights that do share some of their movesets (Genichiro/Isshin and the Corrupted Monks).
"Clicked" as in got easy to handle, never. The bosses are specifically built so that learning "the mechanics" themselves is just a requirement but doesn't really affect the difficulty much, it's not something you get "better" at. They're basically 90% memorizing their wonky-ass, confusing on purpose animations and their timing. So fighting a new boss is pretty much starting from scratch every time except with a couple of fights that do share some of their movesets (Genichiro/Isshin and the Corrupted Monks).
Never. Gave up on Lady Butterfly after 30+ tries not getting even close to victory. I'm just not good at parrying in games.
Lady Butterfly I struggled through but was eventually able to beat by playing the game the wrong way.
Genichiro required a more complete understanding of the game. I still had a tendency to try and dodge attacks all the way up to the Sword Saint. After that and NG+, I really started to roll with the game.
Genichiro required a more complete understanding of the game. I still had a tendency to try and dodge attacks all the way up to the Sword Saint. After that and NG+, I really started to roll with the game.
I'm in the Genchiro camp as well. I remember being stuck on for him for like two hours and I almost giving up on the game. But once I cooled off the next day, I decided to give it another shot after work and beat him on the first try. Something just finally clicked that day, and I was on such a high that I immediately went back to Lady Butterfly, who I barely even bothered with given how hard she was, and beat her after three attempts.
It wasn't smooth sailing after that but I finally had a solid enough handle on the game that even the most frustrating bosses didn't stop me from loving it. It's been my favorite Miyazaki game ever since.
It wasn't smooth sailing after that but I finally had a solid enough handle on the game that even the most frustrating bosses didn't stop me from loving it. It's been my favorite Miyazaki game ever since.
Sadly, no. Idk, something in me is just not clicking with the overall gameplay system. The start was a breeze tho, I've beat first bosses in very few attempts. The horse guy and the bull both died on the third try and then I somehow got stuck unable to pass through mini bosses. Didn't even find the next true boss...
After that I just dropped the game and never returned. The reason is probably my laziness (no pun intended) and the absence of ways to handle fights slowly, easily. No room to breathe and you got to be so precise with every button press, too stressful… Plus it seemed to me like there were big changes to the dodge system and iframes. This thing gets you in a zone too comfortable to leave, even more so than Dark Souls shields. The abuse of that helped me greatly in BloodBorne, but in Sekiro it felt like there's no such thing, every attack was connecting so it really is about dodging properly and beating enemies "fair and square" and not «I can just roll into every attack since I'm invulnerable»
After that I just dropped the game and never returned. The reason is probably my laziness (no pun intended) and the absence of ways to handle fights slowly, easily. No room to breathe and you got to be so precise with every button press, too stressful… Plus it seemed to me like there were big changes to the dodge system and iframes. This thing gets you in a zone too comfortable to leave, even more so than Dark Souls shields. The abuse of that helped me greatly in BloodBorne, but in Sekiro it felt like there's no such thing, every attack was connecting so it really is about dodging properly and beating enemies "fair and square" and not «I can just roll into every attack since I'm invulnerable»
I don't know if I remember the exact point, but it did take me a long time to stop using the dodge button or frantically jumping backwards to avoid hits. That Souls muscle memory had its grip on me and it was hard to shake the urge to dodge at the first sign of 'danger.' Once it clicks though, the boss fights are really the most enjoyable in the 'series'.
Guardian ape was probably the first fight where I realized I needed to remain calm and measured and really learn the attack patterns to succeed. Before that I was still leaning on quick reflexes and exploiting one or two openings when I saw them.
Isshin made me learn that lesson again because I kept looking for an easy way to beat him, and it turns out the easy was to just learn his moves and when to act. Once it clicked he was easily defeated. Then I immediately started a new game and defeated Genichiro just to see if I could.
Isshin made me learn that lesson again because I kept looking for an easy way to beat him, and it turns out the easy was to just learn his moves and when to act. Once it clicked he was easily defeated. Then I immediately started a new game and defeated Genichiro just to see if I could.
Lady Butterfly for me for the boss fighting basics. And then the Monk fight was when I realized that free running in combat was incredibly useful.
The tell is a higher pitched clang sound and a bright orange circle at the point of impact.
This video is incredibly helpful on understanding the mechanics, well worth a watch if you're struggling or just have an interest in the game.
I just got to Isshin last night on NG+3, ran through the game so fast the past few nights, it's unreal how it becomes second nature. Every boss and miniboss but Genichiro and Owl downed immediately. I was a little rusty on the first Owl.
I love this game so damn much. Hated it for a looooong time before I "got it".
I should really focus on beating the inner forms in the gauntlets. That Genichiro is something.
I agree. It's the Genishiro fight. After that, i entered ultra instinct and became a parry/deflection master. The only other fight that gave me trouble afterwards was the Owl fight on the estate.
The game is designed to be about parrying enemy attacks instead of trying to dodge everything. It's supposed to give you a hard time if you're trying to just dodge-spam your way through it, that's why there's no stamina bar.
Yeah, and it's important to understand your opponents can also "deflect" and produce the same sound, at which point you may need to switch to "defense mode" and get ready to counter something.
It's amazing how much you can understand what's happening in a Sekiro fight with your eyes closed.
Kuro's Charm taught me to parry perfectly though, as it punishes you for just mashing the parry button. Of course I had a grasp of the combat before that but I don't feel like I REALLY got it until I stopped having to mash.
No I was done when an ogre or what ever it is did a 90 degree turn in mid air to tackle me after I dodged it.
Indeed! I think that's really when I started grasping it, learning the patterns/dance of attacks and when they parry of what's the follow-up attack timing to parry.
Learn that and play aggressively and you have a much better time.
I'm feeling great about running through the game and beating bosses easily on NG+s, but then the stark reminder of how much of a noob I am playing the gauntlets kicks in. Yep.
I did Hirata Estate and fought Lady Butterfly as soon as it was available, so she was one of the first bosses I fought. It definitely didn't click after that because you can dodge most of her attacks and not have to rely on parrying much.
After Genichiro it either clicks or it doesn't. And even if it does click, I don't think the game is necessarily easier. I think the stages become a lot more enjoyable and manageable, but the bosses are still hard. Sure you better understand the parrying and countering system, but the bosses are still memorization based. On a first run, you can only be so good because every boss has a different moveset with their tells and timings. The game becomes more about how quickly you can adapt and memorize their moveset.
After Genichiro it either clicks or it doesn't. And even if it does click, I don't think the game is necessarily easier. I think the stages become a lot more enjoyable and manageable, but the bosses are still hard. Sure you better understand the parrying and countering system, but the bosses are still memorization based. On a first run, you can only be so good because every boss has a different moveset with their tells and timings. The game becomes more about how quickly you can adapt and memorize their moveset.
It wasn't one moment that it clicked but I started understanding things better after beating lady butterfly and when I eventually beat genshiro I knew what was what.
I really need to start the game up again. I reached a mini boss that I'm pretty sure was in the last area and got too frustrated to beat him, so I guess maybe I don't know what's what.
I really need to start the game up again. I reached a mini boss that I'm pretty sure was in the last area and got too frustrated to beat him, so I guess maybe I don't know what's what.
Really there are 2 game mechanics that you have to learn.
1) What you described is the rock/paper/scissors part that generally comes with special/unblockable (red kanji) attacks, although I would say Mikiri counter on thrust for the most part, but agree with you on the others. I'm not sure this is ever mastered or clicks though for most players because it changes from enemy to enemy and is more about learning their individual tells.
2) The other game mechanic that most here are talking about in terms of clicking is the parry system. I think where this clicks for most people is Genichiro. The game teaches you to parry beforehand, but its more of a timed single event. (tap.....tap.....tap). The miniboss just before Genichiro teaches you a rapid parry (taptap.......taptap). Then Genichiro kinda puts everything together, the rhythm parry game suddenly goes from sheet music to something more like Jazz (tap....tap.....taptaptap...tap........taptap.....tap.....); and then you also have that special attack stuff I mentioned in #1. Genichiro is really the boss to teach you parry, because Lady B can be beaten largely with dodges and prosthetics (or completely skipped).
The other part of the game is to understand the bosses and minibosses. I think there are 4 categories:
1) Vitality based - these are more like the bloodborne-style bosses, where dodging and depleting their health is really pretty much the main thing (think Ogres, Bulls). These are rarer, even though the game confuses you by throwing the Ogre at you early.
2) Posture based - these are parry bosses, where it is mainly about building up their posture bar and just doing maybe just a little bit of vitality damage to make the posture stick (Centipedes, Orin, Genichiro first 2 phases, ISS middle phases).
3) Mixed - these are bosses where you use both vitality and posture (usually you can get a posture kill but only after taking a really good chunk of health (Ape, Owl, etc.), or you can kill with health, but parrying is essential for self preservation.
4) Puzzle - typical weird From puzzle boss that most people don't beat the 'correct' way (Monkeys, etc.)
I think of the last 3 bosses,
Demon of Hatred, Owl Father
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Most of the ogres' attacks can be deflected, and you're supposed to grapple in for damage after dodging the more common grab. The bull is taken down quickest by deflecting!
While this is true, they are vitality based because they are damage sponges (to beat them you must get their health to zero, you can't get a death blow from posture as far as I recall). I agree that deflecting is the best way to beat the bull, but most people beat the Ogre with dodging and attacking (and grapple), and the bull is also beaten by many with dodging and firecrackers.
I felt like I skirted by until Genichiro, at which point I had to buckle down and really get in touch with deflecting and not getting too greedy.
Dang. Every time I think about Sekiro I want to go again but it's been so long since I played I would have to claw my up from Chris Farley in Beverly Hills Ninja levels again
Dang. Every time I think about Sekiro I want to go again but it's been so long since I played I would have to claw my up from Chris Farley in Beverly Hills Ninja levels again
Oh, the bull can be beaten with dodging and firecrackers too. But you are right, you should be blocking.
I think that is one thing to tell early players too - assume you can parry everything. There are exceptions, but I know with the first Horse boss and with the Bull it didn't seem plausible to me that they could be parried with a sword. But yes, most everything save a few enemies can be parried.
A lot of people didn't use parrying much on the Ape either, but it really makes the fight so much easier.
Both the Bull and Genichiro can be beaten by running in circles and smacking them occasionally.
You can! Reducing their vitality helps, of course, but that's true of every fight. It's why you should dodge for openings early in fights (dodging through Owl's firecrackers to slash his back speeds the fight up immensely) and then switch to deflecting everything once they're bloodied.
The optimal way to kill the bull is to run away, stand still and wait until he charges, then deflect just as he rears his head. This stuns him, so you can slash him a few times, reset, repeat. If you treat it like a classic bull fight, it's over very fast and there's basically zero risk of you taking damage. His posture will fill long before his health is gone.
The ogres are kind of spongey, but they should still die from posture damage before their health runs out. Everything should, if you're staying aggressive and responding to attacks optimally.
Yeah, if an attack isn't preceded by a kanji, it can be deflected. You can deflect ISS's air slashes! You can deflect bullets. You can deflect charging bulls. You can deflect the Guardian Ape's second-phase massive overhead chop; it's key to beating him. You can even deflect the Shichimen Warrior's beams and the Demon of Hatred's ground slam (though you'll need the umbrella or items to deal with the terror/fire).
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Great post.
Exactly, I don't think it clicks with new players how health and posture are related. The lower the health, the higher the posture stays. When I stopped worrying about their health or how fast their posture went down at first and played a mix of aggressive and parrying, I had a much better time. Hesitation is defeat really is the best moniker for this game.
And I do find those pure parry bosses fun too, Orin and Long Arm Centipede.
I never realized you can also parry the Divine Dragon's wind slashes. Parry/Deflect everything, even a thrust if you miss the Mikiri.