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WarioFan63

Member
Oct 25, 2017
334
IL
Is there any sense comparing current data to previous one-termers? Like is there anything nowadays that matches signs that were pointing to Carter and Bush 1 losing? Did Republican fatigue play a factor in 1992 or was Bush always going to be doomed?
 

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,923
New York City
Is there any sense comparing current data to previous one-termers? Like is there anything nowadays that matches signs that were pointing to Carter and Bush 1 losing? Did Republican fatigue play a factor in 1992 or was Bush always going to be doomed?

I always felt "read my lips, no new taxes" did in Bush Sr. Bush Sr. was seen as a liar and he raised taxes (something Republicans haven't done since if I am correct)
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Is there any sense comparing current data to previous one-termers? Like is there anything nowadays that matches signs that were pointing to Carter and Bush 1 losing? Did Republican fatigue play a factor in 1992 or was Bush always going to be doomed?

Fatigue might be it. Folks say Perot drew evenly from D's and R's, but the reason a guy like Perot was able to make headway was because the GOP coalition had grown so great as to become unwieldy

It's similar to Woodrow Wilson in 1912. Taft and Roosevelt split the GOP vote, but what opened the door to a schism in the GOP was how dominant the GOP had been (20 years since the last D president in that case).

Edit: Other one-termers earned that status. John Adams went way against the grain of US politics (too authoritarian), Q Adams never got over the corrupt bargain in congress that got him elected, Van Buren was crushed by the Panic of 1837 and a very botched response to it, Cleveland was an iconoclast for economic policy (his brand of anti-corporatism was decades out of date), Benjamin Harrison brought about a ruinous tariff, Hoover had his horrid response to the Depression, and Carter was kneecapped by the Iranian Hostage Crisis and stagflation.
 

Deleted member 24149

Oct 29, 2017
2,150
5k? What? Why risk a PR disaster yet only donate pocket change
Companies will usually invest irregardless of policies and practices as a measure just in case they need to lobby for something.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...4/mick-mulvaney-cfpb-lobbyist-donations-banks Mick Mulvaney talking openly about it.

https://www.landolakesinc.com/Press/News/PAC-donation-statement-steve-king Land O Lakes saying they donate to both parties in a community they're involved in.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Companies will usually invest irregardless of policies and practices as a measure just in case they need to lobby for something.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...4/mick-mulvaney-cfpb-lobbyist-donations-banks Mick Mulvaney talking openly about it.

https://www.landolakesinc.com/Press/News/PAC-donation-statement-steve-king Land O Lakes saying they donate to both parties in a community they're involved in.
everyone else is doing the opposite tho
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Companies will usually invest irregardless of policies and practices as a measure just in case they need to lobby for something.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...4/mick-mulvaney-cfpb-lobbyist-donations-banks Mick Mulvaney talking openly about it.

https://www.landolakesinc.com/Press/News/PAC-donation-statement-steve-king Land O Lakes saying they donate to both parties in a community they're involved in.
That only makes sense if the candidates aren't open KKK members or pedophiles though.
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
Is there any sense comparing current data to previous one-termers? Like is there anything nowadays that matches signs that were pointing to Carter and Bush 1 losing? Did Republican fatigue play a factor in 1992 or was Bush always going to be doomed?
Bush was doomed by the recession that hit him just as his government was wrapping up. If that had not happen, he would have won reelection.

Fun fact: democrats were so afraid of being crushed by Bush that some of the high profile ones didnt run for presidency, which is what let Bill get the nomination without that much problem.
 

Deleted member 24149

Oct 29, 2017
2,150

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
Companies were donating to Steve King well after it was pretty obvious he was extremely friendly to pro-facist ideas. That's assuming the MLB as an organization is just being ignorant as fuck considering the news right now.
Yeah but that was before they were getting called out about it. People are calling out Cindy Hyde-Smith donors right now... and they decide to donate in the middle of that (the fucking donation was made yesterday!!!). Not smart at all.
 

Iolo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,931
Britain
Incumbents are historically difficult to dislodge. It usually takes an adverse foreign or economic event. On the other hand most incumbents will course-correct after a devastating midterm result, which Trump is not capable of.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
Is there any sense comparing current data to previous one-termers? Like is there anything nowadays that matches signs that were pointing to Carter and Bush 1 losing? Did Republican fatigue play a factor in 1992 or was Bush always going to be doomed?
Trump's presidency probably has the most in common with Carter and Dubya's second term in terms of sheer incompetence and unpopularity.

The ACA repeal fight in particular has a lot in common with Bush's efforts to privatize Social Security which also went down in flames. The ACA might as well be considered an untouchable third rail like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid at this point.
 

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
Over the weekend I binged a bit on the Current Affairs Podcast and one of the episodes talked about a sovereign wealth fund

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/current-affairs/e/56024034

Basically, the government buys up stocks of every American company and each American citizen gets one share when they turn 18 that they can't trade away and disappears when they die. Each American citizen will receive a dividend based on how much money is in the sovereign wealth fund.

Essentially, it would turn all Americans into shareholders with voting power. This would all be done on a website where the end goal is to either allow individuals to vote on CEO pay and who is the next CEO, etc., or designate a group who you agree with to vote for you by proxy.

The more that I think about it, the more I prefer it to UBI for several reasons
  1. It taxes wealth, not income.
  2. It doesn't matter if these foreign companies move their corporation to god knows where to avoid paying taxes because shareholders will get their due no matter where the corporation is. That is a big problem that this solves.
  3. It reduces income inequality, can reign in corporations, and will likely reduce money in politics as well because, again, overtime the individual american will collectively have a huge voice in the oversight of companies, CEO paypackages, and who is the next CEO.
  4. I think this redistribution scheme will be an easier sell to the American people. There is already one in Alaska and is super popular (though a bit different than this), but more importantly it doesn't 'feel' like a giveaway as it isn't a tax and transfer. You could sell it to the people as recognition of everyone's contribution to American society. It is a deserved payment by the American government to honor that contribution, no matter what work that person does. Framed that way, it'll be essentially impossible for it to ever be eliminated or disappear because you could literally claim that that would be theft.
  5. Buying up stocks is a well-known counter-cyclical fiscal tool, which would infuse capital into businesses while also injecting more money into the hands of the people. Depending on how you set up the rules, this could be another very effective automatic stabilizer. UBI doesn't really do that.
I haven't looked at this website below, but this is the site that goes through the details

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/projects/social-wealth-fund/
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,534
Over the weekend I binged a bit on the Current Affairs Podcast and one of the episodes talked about a sovereign wealth fund

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/current-affairs/e/56024034

Basically, the government buys up stocks of every American company and each American citizen gets one share when they turn 18 that they can't trade away and disappears when they die. Each American citizen will receive a dividend based on how much money is in the sovereign wealth fund.

Essentially, it would turn all Americans into shareholders with voting power. This would all be done on a website where the end goal is to either allow individuals to vote on CEO pay and who is the next CEO, etc., or designate a group who you agree with to vote for you by proxy.

The more that I think about it, the more I prefer it to UBI for several reasons
  1. It taxes wealth, not income.
  2. It doesn't matter if these foreign companies move their corporation to god knows where to avoid paying taxes because shareholders will get their due no matter where the corporation is. That is a big problem that this solves.
  3. It reduces income inequality, can reign in corporations, and will likely reduce money in politics as well because, again, overtime the individual american will collectively have a huge voice in the oversight of companies, CEO paypackages, and who is the next CEO.
  4. I think this redistribution scheme will be an easier sell to the American people. There is already one in Alaska and is super popular (though a bit different than this), but more importantly it doesn't 'feel' like a giveaway as it isn't a tax and transfer. You could sell it to the people as recognition of everyone's contribution to American society. It is a deserved payment by the American government to honor that contribution, no matter what work that person does. Framed that way, it'll be essentially impossible for it to ever be eliminated or disappear because you could literally claim that that would be theft.
  5. Buying up stocks is a well-known counter-cyclical fiscal tool, which would infuse capital into businesses while also injecting more money into the hands of the people. Depending on how you set up the rules, this could be another very effective automatic stabilizer. UBI doesn't really do that.
I haven't looked at this website below, but this is the site that goes through the details

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/projects/social-wealth-fund/
What if you get stuck with stock in a shitty company?
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Over the weekend I binged a bit on the Current Affairs Podcast and one of the episodes talked about a sovereign wealth fund

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/current-affairs/e/56024034

Basically, the government buys up stocks of every American company and each American citizen gets one share when they turn 18 that they can't trade away and disappears when they die. Each American citizen will receive a dividend based on how much money is in the sovereign wealth fund.

Essentially, it would turn all Americans into shareholders with voting power. This would all be done on a website where the end goal is to either allow individuals to vote on CEO pay and who is the next CEO, etc., or designate a group who you agree with to vote for you by proxy.

The more that I think about it, the more I prefer it to UBI for several reasons
  1. It taxes wealth, not income.
  2. It doesn't matter if these foreign companies move their corporation to god knows where to avoid paying taxes because shareholders will get their due no matter where the corporation is. That is a big problem that this solves.
  3. It reduces income inequality, can reign in corporations, and will likely reduce money in politics as well because, again, overtime the individual american will collectively have a huge voice in the oversight of companies, CEO paypackages, and who is the next CEO.
  4. I think this redistribution scheme will be an easier sell to the American people. There is already one in Alaska and is super popular (though a bit different than this), but more importantly it doesn't 'feel' like a giveaway as it isn't a tax and transfer. You could sell it to the people as recognition of everyone's contribution to American society. It is a deserved payment by the American government to honor that contribution, no matter what work that person does. Framed that way, it'll be essentially impossible for it to ever be eliminated or disappear because you could literally claim that that would be theft.
  5. Buying up stocks is a well-known counter-cyclical fiscal tool, which would infuse capital into businesses while also injecting more money into the hands of the people. Depending on how you set up the rules, this could be another very effective automatic stabilizer. UBI doesn't really do that.
I haven't looked at this website below, but this is the site that goes through the details

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/projects/social-wealth-fund/

Yeah, this is Bruenig's plan. I think this would be fine. I don't really think of it as distinct from a UBI so much as a variation on a UBI that would be more palatable to Americans.

We should make the Federal Reserve do this just to make Ron Paul's head explode. As a bonus, we'd never have to unwind all the quantitative easing!
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
What if you get stuck with stock in a shitty company?

No, you'd get stock in the fund, which itself owns a bunch of stock in companies.

Basically it's index fund socialism. Ironically, Matt Levine has also devoted some time to talking about this concept, although Bruenig and Levine are about as opposite ideologically as it is possible for two people to be.
 

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
No, you'd get stock in the fund, which itself owns a bunch of stock in companies.

Basically it's index fund socialism. Ironically, Matt Levine has also devoted some time to talking about this concept, although Bruenig and Levine are about as opposite ideologically as it is possible for two people to be.

That doesn't surprise me as I definitely see this more palatable to more people than UBI. I mean, capitalists can think of it as every American is investing in our capitalist market economy while socialist can think of it like the people are finally starting to own the means of production!

What I like is that it soles a lot of big problems with our economy in one fell swoop.
 

Claire Delune

10 Years in the Making
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,320
Greater Seattle Area
I haven't had time to actually review the idea in detail, but a Sovereign Wealth Fund sounds like something that could be implemented at least partially at a state level and bypass issues with the taxbase not being large enough to support UBI through direct taxation?
 

Box of Kittens

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,018
Is there any sense comparing current data to previous one-termers? Like is there anything nowadays that matches signs that were pointing to Carter and Bush 1 losing? Did Republican fatigue play a factor in 1992 or was Bush always going to be doomed?
Even into early 1992 it was generally assumed that Bush would cruise to re-election. Pundits were pretty late to catch onto his vulnerability in part because his approvals had been so high in the immediate wake of the Gulf War (though they had already deteriorated to the point where he was in trouble by the time 1992 rolled around), partly because Republicans had easily won the previous three elections so it was hard to conceive of a Democrat winning (there was much talk of a supposed Republican Electoral College Lock).

On the other hand, at this point in Clinton's presidency pundits considered it a foregone conclusion that he would be a one-term president.

The truth is that it's really hard to tell with two years to go how a president's re-election bid is going to go. Incumbent presidents usually get re-elected (although the extent to which this is the case is typically overstated due to recency bias: the previous three presidents all served two terms). On the other hand, not only is Trump unpopular right now, he's never been popular which is quite unusual for a president.
 

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
I haven't had time to actually review the idea in detail, but a Sovereign Wealth Fund sounds like something that could be implemented at least partially at a state level and bypass issues with the taxbase not being large enough to support UBI through direct taxation?

The issue is that you need to get money into it.

Alaska has a Sovereign Wealth Fund because they stick their oil money into it. North Dakota could create a Sovereign Wealth Fund pretty easily, but other states?

It would be a lot slower and you might need to get creative like legalizing weed and using the proceeds from that to fund your fund. Move away from an incarceration system penal system to one that simply fines (sometimes significantly) for non-violent offenders, and stick the money from that and the money you save into the fund, etc. etc.

The Federal Government just has access to a lot more taxes and ways to get money into the fund.
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
This guy makes some good points
When we were all freaking out about the courts and someone said "no way Roberts signs off on that"

And you said something along the lines of.. "that seems like a pretty thin reed to grasp on to in order to preserve the fate of the Union and democracy in the west..

... we'll see how it goes"

I'm still laughing at that
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
Still slowly working my way through Ben Rhodes "The World As It Is". Currently in mid 2011.

Personally, I recoiled at another part of Trump's interviews and stock speech. Time and again, he talked about all the Americans getting killed in Libya, and the assertion would go unchallenged. I'd call reporters to demand a fact check—no Americans were getting killed in Libya, and Americans watching at home shouldn't be mis-led to believe that they were. In response, they'd deflect any responsibility to fact-check everything Trump said—after all, who would take him seriously?

Just really emphasises how much the media are to blame for both the public's ignorance, and Trump.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,534
Still slowly working my way through Ben Rhodes "The World As It Is". Currently in mid 2011.



Just really emphasises how much the media are to blame for both the public's ignorance, and Trump.
Thing is, everyone in the NYC tri-state area knows that Trump is a liar and full of shit and have known this for decades. Guess where most of the major news outlets are located? Can you say giant blindspot?
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,987
Thing is, everyone in the NYC tri-state area knows that Trump is a liar and full of shit and have known this for decades. Guess where most of the major news outlets are located? Can you say giant blindspot?

Yeah, and I'd argue this is the "true" liberal elitism - the media's assumption that everyone's as smart as they are and has the same knowledge-base as them, and that everyone can therefore spot the lies, the subtext, the implications of what Trump says.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Even into early 1992 it was generally assumed that Bush would cruise to re-election. Pundits were pretty late to catch onto his vulnerability in part because his approvals had been so high in the immediate wake of the Gulf War (though they had already deteriorated to the point where he was in trouble by the time 1992 rolled around), partly because Republicans had easily won the previous three elections so it was hard to conceive of a Democrat winning (there was much talk of a supposed Republican Electoral College Lock).

On the other hand, at this point in Clinton's presidency pundits considered it a foregone conclusion that he would be a one-term president.

The truth is that it's really hard to tell with two years to go how a president's re-election bid is going to go. Incumbent presidents usually get re-elected (although the extent to which this is the case is typically overstated due to recency bias: the previous three presidents all served two terms). On the other hand, not only is Trump unpopular right now, he's never been popular which is quite unusual for a president.
One fundamental flaw of elections as we know it is they always are a snapshot of how people feel at one specific moment in time, and not necessarily how they feel overall. It's almost impossible for any human to not to have a big bias towards the most recent information.

It's not a new phenomenon, but I think it is a new phenomenon that sentiment a week before election day isn't recent enough to be remembered come time to vote.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
This is v interesting.



Heres the thread explaining the AOC 10k bill thing. What is going on in that letter isnt what it appears to be.

 

DinosaurusRex

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,953
What happened in 1990?
Ghostbusterscrossstreams.jpg
 

Absent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,045

From the Politico source they used:
As many as five Democratic-led House committees next year could take on DeVos over a range of issues such as her rollback of regulations aimed at predatory for-profit colleges, the stalled processing of student loan forgiveness and a rewrite of campus sexual assault policies.

"Betsy DeVos has brought a special mix of incompetence and malevolence to Washington — and that's rocket fuel for every committee in a new Congress that will finally provide oversight," said Seth Frotman, who resigned as the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's top student loan official earlier in protest of Trump administration policies likely to be examined by Democrats.
The panel's oversight work, DeLauro said, will focus on ways to "hold Secretary DeVos accountable for her agency's failure to uphold federal protections for our students."

DeLauro called DeVos' record on student debt issues "appalling," citing the administration's moves to eliminate Obama-era rules meant to cut off funding to low-performing colleges and make it easier for defrauded borrowers to obtain loan forgiveness.

"I will make sure Secretary DeVos knows Americans want her to protect students and veterans, not the for-profit school industry," she said.
The House Oversight Committee could take on DeVos as well. Rep. Elijah Cummings, (D-Md.), the presumptive chairman, conducted an investigation of CEO pay at for-profit schools during the Obama administration. And this past year, he and Scott expressed concern over DeVos' treatment of the union that represents her agency's employees.
"I saw firsthand how DeVos' actions have forced every type of student loan borrower — including active duty service members, veterans, teachers and older borrowers to pay a heavy price," Frotman said. "The millions of people hurt by her actions deserve not just answers, but accountability."
Look at all this ether.
 

vanmardigan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
9 governorships

The territories are going to happen. I won't stop making them happen.

Eh. A Democrat governor here in the US Virgin Islands is not a big deal. The alternative was an independent incumbent who raised the minimum wage and gave raises for teachers and police officers. I think the better barometer was getting a full Democrat senate in one district and the fact that a loud, brash incumbent leader was voted out despite good economic indicators. That gives me hope for 2020.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,635
So what happens if congress starts issuing subpoena's and those people refuse to show up/turn over documents? I'm specifically referring to people with presidential protections, lackeys and lower level staff.

Can congress indict people themselves? Does the DOJ decide what to do with them, if so can Whittaker just shield them?
 
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