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Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
3,019
Why bother to even run for president if you are too fucking scared to even criticize the front runner.

It's partially due to the base voters, many of whom have indicated they are open to giving other candidates a look-in, but they cannot criticize Trump. (he, on the other hand, CAN criticize them) It's a hilariously skewed situation for the non-spraytanned side of the field.
 

Sounds

Member
Oct 27, 2017
984
The fact that almost 40% of GOP voters think the charges are serious blows my mind, I was honestly expecting it to be less than 15%. He's completely fucked and that number is terrible for him.
 
Oct 22, 2020
6,280
Why bother to even run for president if you are too fucking scared to even criticize the front runner.
I think it's pretty clear that a large contingent of them - perhaps all of them - are banking on a scenario in which Trump drops out or dies or something. Which of course seems incredibly unlikely, but they're trying to play nice with his supporters so they can potentially make a case to them in the event that Trump exits the race.

Again, extremely unlikely and fanciful.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,863
I think it's pretty clear that a large contingent of them - perhaps all of them - are banking on a scenario in which Trump drops out or dies or something. Which of course seems incredibly unlikely, but they're trying to play nice with his supporters so they can potentially make a case to them in the event that Trump exits the race.

Again, extremely unlikely and fanciful.
That's exactly what DeSantis is doing. He's taking some light, harmless jabs at Trump but not full on attacking him. He is desperately banking on Trump being taken down by all the indictments so he can then run with the full backing of the MAGA base on pardoning Trump, cleaning out the DOJ, and "carrying on Trump's legacy."

He can tell the base that he was always behind Trump and never viciously attacked him.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,201
PIT
Honestly Dems should focus relentlessly on what they've done and their vision for the country and let the contrast make itself with the GOP flailing to defend Trumps various crimes.

There will be a time to switch to some negative messaging about his legal issues, but I'd wait a while for more chips to fall into place before doing that.

Talking to people the "yeah but what had Biden DONE" line still exists. Talk about what y'all are doing.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,125
The fact that almost 40% of GOP voters think the charges are serious blows my mind, I was honestly expecting it to be less than 15%. He's completely fucked and that number is terrible for him.

We've seen similar numbers before on other issues but then it also showed the vast majority saying that still had no problem voting for him.
 

GardenPepper

Member
Oct 28, 2017
19,268
Cross-posting this from the OT, but many people in here had questions about what Cannon could do to destroy the case, and this addresses a lot of that:

If Cannon presides through the whole case, there is a decent chance nothing will happen to Trump. A complete dismissal can be appealed/overturned, but she can do a ton of other stuff to weaken the case:

slate.com

Judge Aileen Cannon Can Absolutely Sink the Federal Prosecution of Trump

This is excellent news for Trump and exceedingly bad news for special counsel Jack Smith.

Imagine, though, that Cannon does preside over this case. She has infinite tools at her disposal to thwart the prosecution at nearly every turn. Big swings, like tossing out the whole case—a very real possibility in her courtroom of chaos—can be appealed and overturned. But at every step, there are opportunities for sabotage. Cannon can try to rig voir dire to help the defense stack the jury with Trump supporters. She can exclude evidence and testimony that's especially damning to Trump. She can disqualify witnesses who are favorable to the prosecution. She can sustain the defense's frivolous objections and overrule the prosecution's meritorious ones. She can direct a verdict of acquittal to render the jury superfluous. She can declare a mistrial prematurely for any number of reasons, including lengthy juror deliberations, and stretch out various deadlines to run out the clock. Many of these procedural moves could not be appealed until the proceedings have drawn to a close; appeals courts do not referee every little dispute in a jury trial as they happen. Cannon will be in control.

If she wants, she can whittle the prosecution's case down to nothing tangible, and with her previous actions, how could you not think she'd do so?
 
OP
OP
TheHunter

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Because it would be blatant and a court above her would overrule her just like last time.
 

GardenPepper

Member
Oct 28, 2017
19,268
Because it would be blatant and a court above her would overrule her just like last time.
On the other side of that argument, a former clerk for Garland is on record saying they don't think that crew will reassign her because there was no judge shopping this time. It was supposedly random so she gets it. It will be interesting to see.
 

Erpy

Member
May 31, 2018
3,019
That's exactly what DeSantis is doing. He's taking some light, harmless jabs at Trump but not full on attacking him. He is desperately banking on Trump being taken down by all the indictments so he can then run with the full backing of the MAGA base on pardoning Trump, cleaning out the DOJ, and "carrying on Trump's legacy."

He can tell the base that he was always behind Trump and never viciously attacked him.

The little caveat being that Trump is a paranoid mob boss who doesn't believe his competition would actually pardon him (because he's a chronic backstabber himself for whom loyalty is a one-way street) and will still do whatever it takes to drag DeSantis down with him. After all, his ego can't handle the idea that one of his competitors would succeed in beating Biden while he failed.
 

Zorg1000

Banned
Jul 22, 2019
1,750
Talking to people the "yeah but what had Biden DONE" line still exists. Talk about what y'all are doing.

I was just talking about this with a couple friends the other day, they really need to hype up the things that passed last congress, especially that had bipartisan support.

Laws were passed that will make our roads, bridges & highways safer, our electrical grid more resilient, our drinking water cleaner, create more accessible public transportation, increase domestic manufacturing, expand veteran healthcare, bring down the cost of prescription drugs, expand mental health services, increase gun safety, bring down the cost of energy efficient products, etc.

Just really hammer home that Biden & a democrat controlled Congress (with the help of some moderate republicans) have been fighting for the average American while MAGA republicans have been focused on taking away rights and complaining about nonsense like M&Ms & Bud Light.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,758
Cross-posting this from the OT, but many people in here had questions about what Cannon could do to destroy the case, and this addresses a lot of that:

If Cannon presides through the whole case, there is a decent chance nothing will happen to Trump. A complete dismissal can be appealed/overturned, but she can do a ton of other stuff to weaken the case:

slate.com

Judge Aileen Cannon Can Absolutely Sink the Federal Prosecution of Trump

This is excellent news for Trump and exceedingly bad news for special counsel Jack Smith.



If she wants, she can whittle the prosecution's case down to nothing tangible, and with her previous actions, how could you not think she'd do so?
What a bunch of bullshit. And her selection wasn't random, I don't care what anyone says.

Cannon will keep Teflon Don alive. Couldn't they have tried this outside of FL?
 

Culex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,135
Cannon literally made up laws JUST FOR Trump in the last court date over Maralago. She ignored precedent and ignored nearly every prosecutorial request.

She is totally going to tank this tomorrow. I can see her throwing out most of the DOJ's case so it cannot be used in trial.

"oh darn, the docket is full until 2025, oh well!"
 

GardenPepper

Member
Oct 28, 2017
19,268
There is a lot she can do but don't think Smith hasn't considered all of it. The guy prosecuted war crimes at the Hague. He's not some nobody off the street. Just hope for a judge change.
 

Zorg1000

Banned
Jul 22, 2019
1,750
Even on the colder days it worked great. We had some below zero days too. I'd just look at what type of pump - some are not rated below a certain ambient temperature.

Cool, thanks! I'm not looking to get one at the moment since my furnace still has quite a bit of life in it but once it's ready to be replaced I plan on switching to a heat pump.
 
Oct 22, 2020
6,280
Cross-posting this from the OT, but many people in here had questions about what Cannon could do to destroy the case, and this addresses a lot of that:

If Cannon presides through the whole case, there is a decent chance nothing will happen to Trump. A complete dismissal can be appealed/overturned, but she can do a ton of other stuff to weaken the case:

slate.com

Judge Aileen Cannon Can Absolutely Sink the Federal Prosecution of Trump

This is excellent news for Trump and exceedingly bad news for special counsel Jack Smith.



If she wants, she can whittle the prosecution's case down to nothing tangible, and with her previous actions, how could you not think she'd do so?
Just a friendly reminder that Mark Joseph Stern, while a very smart and well-meaning guy, is in a constant state of hysteria and hyperbole.

Which is sometimes warranted, but sometimes is not.
 

GardenPepper

Member
Oct 28, 2017
19,268
Just a friendly reminder that Mark Joseph Stern, while a very smart and well-meaning guy, is in a constant state of hysteria and hyperbole.

Which is sometimes warranted, but sometimes is not.
That's fine--he also has more legal knowledge than anyone on this forum, so I thought I'd post it so people knew what Cannon could potentially do if she wanted.

I still think the 11th circuit allows a switch of judges after her actions in the last case.
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
32,620
On the other side of that argument, a former clerk for Garland is on record saying they don't think that crew will reassign her because there was no judge shopping this time. It was supposedly random so she gets it. It will be interesting to see.
Garland isn't running the case, Jack Smith is. The DOJ has been triple checked and prepared and could have done this in DC. If they did it in Florida they have every contingency planned and every situation planned for and I doubt they'll let a corrupt judge stay on the case with how hard they messed with her last time
 

bossmonkey

Avenger
Nov 9, 2017
2,532
Garland isn't running the case, Jack Smith is. The DOJ has been triple checked and prepared and could have done this in DC. If they did it in Florida they have every contingency planned and every situation planned for and I doubt they'll let a corrupt judge stay on the case with how hard they messed with her last time
I would imagine there is only so much fafo one can commit before the state bar starts to get pissy.
 

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,037
Garland isn't running the case, Jack Smith is. The DOJ has been triple checked and prepared and could have done this in DC. If they did it in Florida they have every contingency planned and every situation planned for and I doubt they'll let a corrupt judge stay on the case with how hard they messed with her last time

I don't think they could have brought these charges in DC. There are rules for venue, mostly you gotta charge where the crime was committed or where the defendant is. There may of course be related charges pending in DC as well as these. Trouble is, when he was in DC he was President, which opens up a whole load more defences.
 

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,519
is there a date or general timeframe when the SC will hear the student loan relief case? I know it's almost certainly not going to be upheld, but just curious.
 

Hopfrog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,956
I don't know, I just find it a bit hard to believe that Jack Smith, an internationally-renowned litigator who everyone in the know seems to regard as an absolute beast of a prosecutor, and his team could be thwarted by one simple piece of bad luck in Cannon being assigned. Knowing that was a possibility and not planning for it would be remarkably stupid and I just cannot believe that Smith and his people would not have accounted for it.
 
Oct 22, 2020
6,280
so we'll definitely know within two or so weeks? And it's pretty much assumed they are going to strike it down right?
Yes, we'll definitely know very soon.

And I wouldn't say it's a foregone conclusion that it's going to get struck down. There's a semi-decent chance that SCOTUS rules that the state of Missouri lacks standing and they dismiss the case without ruling on the merits.

I wouldn't bet on it or anything, but it's not certain the Biden administration is going to lose.
 

CrocM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,092
So as a criminal I can just say hey y'all I'm looking into this lawyer business. I'll get back to you. It may take a few years but I'll probably find someone. Just be patient.
You're not a criminal until you're convicted. So if something happens last minute with your lawyer, yes you can have a bit of a reprieve to make sure you have the best representation possible. It's a common sense rule.
 
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