Hes such a persistent steaming pile of shit like the rest of the Trump/"conservative" movement shit heels
US PoliEra 2020 |OT 1| THE ANTI BENGHAZI (Read Staff Post)
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Hes such a persistent steaming pile of shit like the rest of the Trump/"conservative" movement shit heels
Also this is disgusting..
I mean, if you think Frum should be disqualified from discussion because he is a mass murderer, you should report posts that quote him. The reason people don't post Stormfront here is that they would get banned! And also, obviously, that you have to go over to Stormfront to read it, whereas Frum is at the Atlantic. You might say that speaks to the normalization of the W crew, and that's probably true, but, you know, they are normalized. In any case, Chait and Rubin are making very similar arguments, and while you might think they're all dummies, they aren't all mass murderers.
I agree with this, in general, although I'm not clear on who you're including in the term "leftist" here. But I think you left out keeping Dems activated. If Democrats voted in 2016 the way they voted in 2012 we'd have crushed Trump. If they vote in 2020 the way they voted in 2018 we'll probably crush him again. So naturally a lot of folks are relatively change averse.
If you view 2016 as a titanic struggle between two excellent campaigns in which the Democrats got destroyed, then radical change is necessary. But another possible reading is that Hillary was a bad candidate who ran a bad campaign while also being sabotaged by intelligence agencies both in and out of the country, and still lost by a rounding error in three states. In that model, doing the exact same thing is likely to win, and that's before taking into account the fact that Trump has been president for four years and it's gone very badly.
Personally I think one of the big takeaways from 2016 is that it's nearly impossible to run a candidate so bad that they don't have a good chance of winning and so everything people think about candidates is probably mostly wrong and we should run the leftiest candidate possible. Which would probably be a younger, Latino Bernie, but we have to run the one we have for now.
its like when you don't clean your room before company comes and your mom says, "I'm going to kill you!"
How many of those voters are fiercely ideological and would actually scoff at Sanders and how many are just "fuck Trump" and would vote for a ham sandwich with a D next to its name? Suburbanites are trending left all over the world regardless if the left option is center-left or further left. How many of those suburbanites would vote based on their job prospects? Even if they may not be super hot on M4A, do you think those voters will buy that the GOP alternative of no healthcare will be better?
FWIW, I think one can make cogent arguments in both directions for "electablity" for Sanders or any "left" candidate. I just wish people, especially pundits, were less "I'm 100% I'm right!". Argue your point but avoid sounding like you know it all, shit is going to blow up in your face :P
I think its still important to state that Bernie has not gobe through the complete GOP attack apparatus yet. He has been unscathed relatively in 2016 and 2020. There is the question of how Bernie will answer the attacks when every single news outlet treats him like CNN did in the last debate.
Imagine wanting Yang over Warren. The electability argument holds no weight here.
Yeah, try saying that about the president and see what happens.
I'm sure the impeachment managers are OK with going to court over all subpoenas and privileges at this point, given he's already impeached.
Imagine celebrating 1 whole percentage point that is statistically identical LMAO
Also remember that Yang is non-white himself and the only current non-white in the race (Tootsie and Deval aren't in the race) and he can still only get 7%
? What does this mean? Obviously you have certain groups in a Democratic electorate that won't support you that would in a GE. Just like how Black voters will vote for whoever the nominee is.
If they take the bait, some idiot will publicly cite it undercutting one of their biggest talking points about the House investigation.
Yes. Can't wait until they finish the logic and argue failed quid pro quo is a lesser crime and not impeachable.
This is aggressive but in general I agree that people are making a lot of assumptions about suburbanite anti-Trump voters being very squishy on white supremacy and I think, while I understand a certain natural skepticism of whitey, I would still like to see the data to support it.
I just realized I've never heard Andrew Yang's name spoke out loud. Is it pronounced Yang like gang or Yong like song? 🤔
I want to get that right.
I want to get that right.
Just seems like an interesting argument for them to try and make...
Someone pointed out in the comments that Kathy Griffin and Eminem got visits from the secret service for jokes like that.
I actually pretty much agree with your end conclusion here: that Hillary was so historically awful and unpopular (and caught a few bad breaks along the way in terms of electorial college/disinformation campaigns/etc.) that pretty much anyone will turn out 2012 voting levels simply by virtue of not being Hillary Clinton. Everyone who isn't completely far gone here would probably vote for AOC over anyone in the field, but Bernie feels like the obvious mega-compromise, as he is way more popular/competent than Hillary even despite his divisiveness among writers for The Atlantic.
The 2018 electorate is closer to a presidential voting pool than any other recent midterm though. I think banking on the 2020 to be vastly different is a miscalculation.
These are just case-by-case examples but the swing voters being surveyed in The Wilderness podcast have me super worried about all of this. These are people who see no inconsistency with flipping between different parties for the White House every 8 years. People who say they're advocates for women's rights and LGBT rights, but like what Trump has done for the stock market. People who think he's broken a lot of promises but has been good for their jobs and the economy. People who don't like Trump as a person, or embarrassed him, yet have these vague fears about a Democratic party that is moving too far to the left in ways they can't articulate. People who don't like Medicare for All, but also like government-sponsored universal healthcare and would prefer the name 'Insurance for All' (not making this up!).
It's because so many of these voters are not fiercely ideological we should worry about them voting for Trump in the event of a Trump vs. Bernie election. "Not super hot on M4A" is a huge understatement of these people's concerns; I can too easily see a 2020 post-mortem where Trump wins re-election and suburbanites' fear of losing their health insurance was one of the biggest drivers for them staying in the Trump column despite their hatred for the man.
Moderate suburban voters with histories of voting for Republicans are not people I feel comfortable imagining voting for "a ham sandwich with a D next to its name" just because the other choice is Trump.
It's actually pronounced Yong Gong. its weird I know.
Don't you see? Conspiring to commit a crime is no longer a crime apparently.
something is getting through to me right now despite my choice to ignore it
C'mon now, don't troll me. I just wanted to be sure.
I know "-ang" is sometimes pronounced "-ong" and wanted to clarify. I don't like not knowing!
But thank you even if you were #RUDE.
I'm like 99% sure they said "Yang" at the debates I watched.
Haha, sorry. I just have heard his name spoken so many times now I have a hard time imagining not knowing how to pronounce it. Anyway its Yang like gang.
Thank you mucho.
No worries my good dude.
But that's what they did already. We already did the "lower taxes in exchange for being ruled by a Nazi" election twice. We already know who passed the test and who failed it. The PMCs and the white suburbanites passed, and the union workers and rural whites failed. If you accept that white supremacy is a force that overpowers other material considerations, which you should, you should believe that opposition to white supremacy can do the same, a thesis for which there is even more evidence.
Sure, let's impeach *looks at notes* Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Robert Mueller and Joe Biden.
the president knew people were on the call!
yeah that says a lot about him.
The fundamental issue with the Sanders campaign is a misreading of the actual electorate - according to the Sanders campaign, the average American believes they are under economic siege, they're buried in debt, and all the other 'we're economically doomed' stories that get posted on this site seemingly on the daily. Meanwhile, out in the real world, we have 3.6% unemployment, the longest economic expansion in history, consumer confidence near post-dot-com boom highs, and median adjusted income at an all-time high, finally pushing past the late-90's.
Now, obviously, a lot of 20-something's on this forum aren't having the same success, but the average voter isn't a 25 year old liberal arts major with a large student loan debt living in a major urban area.
That's not a recipe for a revolution. Now, that doesn't mean Sanders can't win a general, but it won't be because he wins West Virginia, Oklahoma, or the other dreams of Twitter leftists, but rather, because he's seen as a generic Democrat by voters, and he wins standard issue Democratic votes. The dirty truth is the actual different in the popular vote, whether we nominee Bernie, Biden, or Warren will only be a couple of points difference, and nobody is likely beating Obama's numbers from '08.
The relatively good economy for the average American (note - I realize lots of people are in shitty situations, but lots of people are always in shitty situations), means that when somebody likes Bernie says, "everything is collapsing," your average suburban voter in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, or Florida whose never had a problem with their health insurance, can pay their bills, has a decent 401k, and has or is easily paying down their relatively small college debt looks around and says, "what are you talking about?"
You can point to all the statistics you want, but if people don't actually feel like things are going badly, then they aren't going to believe you.
It's like trying to tell somebody their house is on fire, when there's no actual evidence. On the other hand, if you tell them, "your neighbor's house is on fire, let's all pitch in and help them out," that'll likely go better than, "we're going replace the roof that's worked well for you with a better roof - you just have to trust us it's better."
Now, obviously, a lot of 20-something's on this forum aren't having the same success, but the average voter isn't a 25 year old liberal arts major with a large student loan debt living in a major urban area.
That's not a recipe for a revolution. Now, that doesn't mean Sanders can't win a general, but it won't be because he wins West Virginia, Oklahoma, or the other dreams of Twitter leftists, but rather, because he's seen as a generic Democrat by voters, and he wins standard issue Democratic votes. The dirty truth is the actual different in the popular vote, whether we nominee Bernie, Biden, or Warren will only be a couple of points difference, and nobody is likely beating Obama's numbers from '08.
The relatively good economy for the average American (note - I realize lots of people are in shitty situations, but lots of people are always in shitty situations), means that when somebody likes Bernie says, "everything is collapsing," your average suburban voter in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, or Florida whose never had a problem with their health insurance, can pay their bills, has a decent 401k, and has or is easily paying down their relatively small college debt looks around and says, "what are you talking about?"
You can point to all the statistics you want, but if people don't actually feel like things are going badly, then they aren't going to believe you.
It's like trying to tell somebody their house is on fire, when there's no actual evidence. On the other hand, if you tell them, "your neighbor's house is on fire, let's all pitch in and help them out," that'll likely go better than, "we're going replace the roof that's worked well for you with a better roof - you just have to trust us it's better."
That's the best possible result for them because the SCOTUS would again drag their feet for Trump. They can get back to business of running for re-election and let that mess burn slowly in the background. Are giving them good reasons?
I make good money, but more than half my income goes to rent, I can't afford to put my kids in daycare, and I live paycheck to paycheck. Unless I move to a bad neighborhood, I'm fucked. I will never own a house, despite me making significantly more than the median.
California is fucked. We need a revolution.
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