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Xenogears_X

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Jan 22, 2020
124
The tables have turned.


tenor.gif
 

VisserFour

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,611
If your goal is a Bernie win, you want the field to stay as large as possible for as long as possible. A Pete collapse does nothing whatsoever to help Bernie. At this point, I don't think it does anything much to help Warren either. You absolutely want Klob, Pete and Bloomberg to suck up as much support as possible.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,820
Doesn't letting Powell into the tent signal the tacit accepting of killing brown people abroad through white militarism and through the white beneficiaries of the military industrial complex in the name of Empire? It does not seem right to decouple Powell (as a single entity) from the (collective) institution that he represents following the above logics.

I'm saying that presenting a peaceful, socialist utopia but saying there's a pretty good chance that guys like Rogan and Jones will still be on top, isn't a utopia for the voters you're trying to court within the democratic coalition, and appealing to the "greater good" is just a different flavor of Trump's populism.

Powell was a war hero and an African American icon long before he joined the Bush admin, and even among the mess that was, he is widely considered the least bad person involved, and he often clashed with others in the admin on foreign policy. Trying to paint him with the same brush as Dick Cheney is like people trying to paint the Clintons (and Biden) with the same brush as hardcore Republicans in the mid-90s for their stances on social justice issues. The aloof far left cries of "both sides are the same" fall on deaf ears for people who live through this shit every day. If Ezra Klein and Michael Tracey want to run with "Obama was just as bad as Bush and Trump, if you really think about the bank bailouts and drone strikes" they are going to appeal to a very small demographic. I'd argue that someone like AOC manages to tiptoe the line just fine between challenging the establishment trends we take for granted while still not handwaving discrimination. Of course she'll never be as popular as Bernie in the Joe Rogan circles despite believing in all of the same policy goals because *reasons*.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,143
If your goal is a Bernie win, you want the field to stay as large as possible for as long as possible. A Pete collapse does nothing whatsoever to help Bernie. At this point, I don't think it does anything much to help Warren either. You absolutely want Klob, Pete and Bloomberg to suck up as much support as possible.
Yeah, a divided field is ultimately better for Bernie. Pete and Klobuchar stealing as many potential delegates away from Biden as possible is key to Bernie being able to pull off a win.
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
I'm saying that presenting a peaceful, socialist utopia but saying there's a pretty good chance that guys like Rogan and Jones will still be on top, isn't a utopia for the voters you're trying to court within the democratic coalition, and appealing to the "greater good" is just a different flavor of Trump's populism.

Powell was a war hero and an African American icon long before he joined the Bush admin, and even among the mess that was, he is widely considered the least bad person involved, and he often clashed with others in the admin on foreign policy. Trying to paint him with the same brush as Dick Cheney is like people trying to paint the Clintons (and Biden) with the same brush as hardcore Republicans in the mid-90s for their stances on social justice issues. The aloof far left cries of "both sides are the same" fall on deaf ears for people who live through this shit every day. If Ezra Klein and Michael Tracey want to run with "Obama was just as bad as Bush and Trump, if you really think about the bank bailouts and drone strikes" they are going to appeal to a very small demographic. I'd argue that someone like AOC manages to tiptoe the line just fine between challenging the establishment trends we take for granted while still not handwaving discrimination. Of course she'll never be as popular as Bernie in the Joe Rogan circles despite believing in all of the same policy goals because *reasons*.

I decided to do some quick reading on Powell thanks to this post and lol

Powell was the subject of controversy in 2004 when, in a conversation with British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, he reportedly referred to neoconservatives within the Bush administration as "fucking crazies."
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois

NookSports

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,351
I hope / wonder what it felt like in the days before Nixon resigned. I wonder if it felt as hopeless as it does right now.
 

Deleted member 171

Oct 25, 2017
19,888
I hope / wonder what it felt like in the days before Nixon resigned. I wonder if it felt as hopeless as it does right now.

I imagine the Nixon stuff steamrolled. There was no social media, or fast news. People would either watch the news, or read the papers. Then talk about it as stuff goes on.
 

Deleted member 14459

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,874
I'm saying that presenting a peaceful, socialist utopia but saying there's a pretty good chance that guys like Rogan and Jones will still be on top, isn't a utopia for the voters you're trying to court within the democratic coalition, and appealing to the "greater good" is just a different flavor of Trump's populism.

Powell was a war hero and an African American icon long before he joined the Bush admin, and even among the mess that was, he is widely considered the least bad person involved, and he often clashed with others in the admin on foreign policy. Trying to paint him with the same brush as Dick Cheney is like people trying to paint the Clintons (and Biden) with the same brush as hardcore Republicans in the mid-90s for their stances on social justice issues. The aloof far left cries of "both sides are the same" fall on deaf ears for people who live through this shit every day. If Ezra Klein and Michael Tracey want to run with "Obama was just as bad as Bush and Trump, if you really think about the bank bailouts and drone strikes" they are going to appeal to a very small demographic. I'd argue that someone like AOC manages to tiptoe the line just fine between challenging the establishment trends we take for granted while still not handwaving discrimination. Of course she'll never be as popular as Bernie in the Joe Rogan circles despite believing in all of the same policy goals because *reasons*.

No disagreement on the last sentence brother - however, I do not think the article attempts to compare Powell to Cheney, but rather to quote the article "whether we should have deontological or consequentialist standards in thinking about politics, and whether the standards we use when thinking about discrimination cases ought to be the same as the ones used in thinking about war and peace". What are the consequences of having Powell as a "war hero" and an "icon" - what is the overall impact of a "war hero" and a "icon of war" on brown and black people's lives? In me it (article) triggers the question of what kind of tensions does this cause to our moral reasoning and positions - to beliefs and positions we say we commit to and hold true. Malcolm X, towards the end of his life, often pointed to how there is among those embedded in the struggle against black oppression an unwritten prohibition against criticizing American foreign affairs and imperialism, that there is a need to see the military industrial complex as white supremacy, as something foundational to what upkeeps racial oppression...
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936

Woke up a bit ago to some angry texts from Rudy Giuliani. He's pissed Dems aren't considering calling him as a witness and says "they are afraid of my physical presence." "Why do they want Bolton if not me," he says. "Again I really should stop wasting my time." #impeachment

"Why don't I get TV time?!"




Asked about trading one Dem witness for one GOP witness, Romney told me: "I think that is a measure that has fairness associated with it." Asked if he would be open to calling Hunter Biden: "I wouldn't tell either side who they ought to call."

If I were the dems I'd be requesting someone other than Bolton. I'm not burning a pick on someone who, at the very least should be a consensus pick.


I wonder how fucked the Palestinian's are with this "peace plan".
I'm guessing Stormy Daniels fucked
 

Deleted member 171

Oct 25, 2017
19,888
I mean, Rudy does realize that he won't have executive privilege to hide behind, right? He's not an actual government employee.
 

VisserFour

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,611
I mean I am afraid of Gulianis physical presence but not for the reason he thinks. I dint like the idea of hell being without one of its most stupid shit gibbons.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,520
People joke about how so many would vote for "a woman but not that woman" but that is a good example of how that same thought process applied to racial issues with Obama
A female boomer relative the other day went one further when she was asked about Warren. I expected that line you mentioned but instead she said no woman should be President. She said women are "too emotional". I couldn't believe it. For one thing, just look at Trump's twitter feed any day if you want to see "too emotional". I'm fairly sure she voted for Trump in 2016 and will either vote for him again or write in this year.
 

Casa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,986
Even if this "I'm iffy on the second impeachment article" shtick from moderate Dems is for show or to desperately try to appear neutral and fair, it's still ridiculous to say. While abuse of power is actually something that the two sides can argue about (though the GOP are doing an embarrassing job at it) how in the world can someone that calls themselves a Democrat be waffling about obstruction?

The orange asshole has repeatedly ordered it and gloated about it on TV!
 

VisserFour

Member
Nov 27, 2017
5,611
Also the House should call witnesses. Most people are too politically stupid to understand the difference between the House and Senate.

also the idea we should trade democrats for republicans is stupid. we literally did nothing wrong.
 

DinosaurusRex

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,953
Here's Trump saying his upcoming "peace plan" is too good to Palestinians.

Q Mr. President, did you speak to the Palestinians about your plan to the Palestinian President? Because there are reports that he refused to take your call.

PRESIDENT TRUMP: We will be reporting on that tomorrow. It's something they should want. They probably won't want it initially, but I think in the end they will. I think in the end, they're going to want it. It's very good for them. In fact, it's overly good to them. So we'll see what happens. Now, without them, we don't do the deal and that's okay. They're not living well.


"nice apartheid state you have there would be a shame if it got worse"
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,084
Minneapolis

Worst of both worlds for them, I bet. The GOP still had big money backers in the 2018 cycle from the wealthy and corporations wanting to hedge their bets, but now no one thinks the GOP will regain the House majority this year, why bother? It'd be more productive to try and snooker up to the Democrats.

Meanwhile small money donors are still overwhelmingly Democratic while Republican rank-and-file are pissing their money away on Ilhan Omar's Republican challenger and WinRed's like, 8000% credit card fees.
 

Deleted member 171

Oct 25, 2017
19,888
"They won't want it at first, but they should want it"

That's.....kinda a fucked up way to spin your strategy.
 

Arm Van Dam

self-requested ban
Banned
Mar 30, 2019
5,951
Illinois




House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy put the fundraising problems bluntly: "They are kicking our ass," he said, in a meeting at the Capitol Hill Club, the private GOP haunt around the corner from the Capitol, referring to Democrats.

"My intention today is to sound a loud alarm," @NRCC Chairman @tomemmer of Minnesota said in the meeting. "We can't ignore the campaigns that need to get better with their individual fundraising. ... They're crushing us," Emmer said, referring to the DCCC.

It's amazing the GOP still hasn't ousted Emmer and his 4chan level "comms" team from the NRCC because he's clearly doing a really piss poor job when he got the job last year.
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936

The
@WSJ
editorial page is says there's no need for Bolton to testify because everyone already knows that aid to Ukraine was conditioned on a Biden investigation. But the President and his lawyers are literally arguing the precise opposite to the Senate.



I totally support
@SenatorLankford
's proposal that the Bolton manuscript be made available to the Senate, if possible, in a classified setting where each Senator has the opportunity to review the manuscript and make their own determination.

Classified setting. Give me a break.
 

Deleted member 171

Oct 25, 2017
19,888
Wait, why would a manuscript for a book that is going to be published have to be in a classified setting?

You gotta be more clever about your cover-up!
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
If your goal is a Bernie win, you want the field to stay as large as possible for as long as possible. A Pete collapse does nothing whatsoever to help Bernie. At this point, I don't think it does anything much to help Warren either. You absolutely want Klob, Pete and Bloomberg to suck up as much support as possible.
I want a Forma first; it not, Biden. I know Forma is a pipe dream so let's drown Booty.
A couple of peas in a pod


Ayyyyy lmao

But CA25 already went blue. 🧐

I'm guessing she got OUTRAISED a la McSally.

Ayyyy lmao
 

shadow_shogun

Fallen Guardian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,889

@mkraju
Lindsey Graham says Bolton manuscript should be available in a classified setting for senators
Lindsey Graham

@LindseyGrahamSC
I totally support @SenatorLankford's
proposal that the Bolton manuscript be made available to the Senate, if possible, in a classified setting where each Senator has the opportunity to review the manuscript and make their own determination. https://oklahoman.com/article/5653405/inhofe-sees-no-need-for-bolton-to-testify
10:34 - 28 Jan 2020
 

AnotherNils

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,936
Keep seeing reference to Bolton's book coming out in six weeks so I'm mentally going through the mechanics of this, politically.

No matter what happens in the trial, in six weeks GOP senators will have to deal with what Bolton claims in the book.

Unless the WH tries to gag Bolton, in which case America will perk up and want to know what's in the book.

I do believe they're in a no-win situation.
 
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