SchroDingerzat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Sep 24, 2018
1,600
Yozora IS Kingdom Hearts. The Master of Masters needs him to bring Kingdom Hearts to the multiverse.

All will be apart of the Nomuraverse! No one can stop it now!

I mean if Sora ever got in Smash, I guarantee Nomura would make it canon. At which point through interconnected crossovers and references, Nomura would have the largest multiverse in fiction.

As an example, KH might not have Marvel, but with Ken in Smash, and from there Marvel vs Capcom, they become connected (hell at that point it becomes connected to DC, and from there to Mortal Kombat, and then to Predator and Alien and then...........)
 

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
29,409
Yeah, he went with Elrena when Arlene was right there
Yeah I remember after we found out how the Organization naming worked with how he named Roxas people were going through names and people assumed Arlene for Larxene but Nomura was like "Fuck that you get Elrena"

I mean if Sora ever got in Smash, I guarantee Nomura would make it canon. At which point through interconnected crossovers and references, Nomura would have the largest multiverse in fiction.
Yeah if he does get into Smash and it's probably gonna spoil the ending for those who haven't played it lol
 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,238
the HELP Menu.
I hope that, should Yozora get his own game, and Disney stuff will still be involved with his adventures, that we get stuff like this scene.



I never knew I wanted this mod so bad until I saw this and other stuff like it, and now I can't play the game without this, it's too amazing.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,528
That's awesome, I hope it's Lourd! Or rather, [Lorr-D) rather then [Lou-Err-D], since apparently Luxord was pronounced [Luke-Ser-D] rather then the much better and luxury sounding [Lucks-Orr-D].

That was the biggest plot twist in Re:Mind to me.

I hate it, I don't want to hear them say it again.
Marluxia also sounds way cooler when you say it how it's written than how it's pronounced
 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,238
the HELP Menu.
Marluxia also sounds way cooler when you say it how it's written than how it's pronounced

Just to be clear, you are saying [Mar-Luu-Sha], or [Mar-Lucks-E-Ah]? Or [Mar-Luu-She-Ah], that one does sound boss. Because I love the first one, and I thought that was the correct way to say it?

If you prefer the other, that's fine, I just get so confused when certain characters never/barely got an official pronunciation.

Like, it's [Tie-Dus] in my heart, but I know it's [Tea-Dus] in my brain.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,528
Just to be clear, you are saying [Mar-Luu-Sha], or [Mar-Lucks-E-Ah]? Or [Mar-Luu-She-Ah], that one does sound boss. Because I love the first one, and I thought that was the correct way to say it?

If you prefer the other, that's fine, I just get so confused when certain characters never/barely got an official pronunciation.

Like, it's [Tie-Dus] in my heart, but I know it's [Tea-Dus] in my brain.
I think Mar-lucks-ee-ah sounds better than mar-loo-sha to me
 

bunkitz

Brave Little Spark
Moderator
Oct 28, 2017
13,559
I beat him! I beat Yozora after six hours of trying! It would have definitely taken much longer without Everglow's incredibly helpful in-depth guide video so I will forever be grateful to that man for making Kingdom Hearts easier to understand and beat.

I don't know how it would have played out had I not watched the video before fighting Yozora, but even having watched it wasn't enough to allow me a quick victory. It really came down to actually learning the timings and remembering when and where the openings are. Over time, his first phase became easy but it was still also very easy to screw up and die so soon after just starting the fight. He felt like a much fairer fight than some of the Limit Cut bosses, to be honest, but at the same time more challenging due to the number of attack options he has. It was so satisfying going from fearing his cage (both the sphere and pyramid) attacks to looking forward to them because I knew exactly how to avoid them or turn them against him. Like, I had trouble with the dodge timing for the pyramid cage and even when I learned it I still had trouble blocking the succeeding attacks but now? It's a golden opportunity for counterattacking and one I exploit almost all the time. The only time I can't is when I'm out of MP, which is why I ended up using my potions more often.

His second phase still gave me trouble after all the times I've gone up against it because of that damned teleporting Fenris sword attack of his that I have trouble blocking no matter what. I'm not sure if it's the timing or if I'm supposed to face a certain way...? Either ways, I hate that and can't remember actually ever blocking it during the second phase so I always ended up geting hit by that onslaught of sword slashes that followed it. Man, I hate that. Then there's that damn molten core black hole shit which... I also still can't overcome cleanly so I try to use Simba's Link when I can. The Gigas are surprisingly easy to dodge, those I have no problems with. Maybe I'd get hit once or twice, but usually not.

The third phase was scary once I finally reached it because it was totally uncharted territory after fighting for so long and he started doing those blue vanishing projectile slashes that I had so much trouble with! Turns out, you can block his sword slash that he pairs with it after the second blue slash and Counter Kick him to hell. Counter Kicking is also a life saver when he does that flurry of slashes while armored. It sucks that he changed his tractor beam attack to no longer being exploitable, but oh well. Would've been too good if it remained the same. On the other hand, that feinting attack he does is weirdly fun to deal with? It seems hard to defend against but I was doing surprisingly well almost 90% of the time, rarely ever getting hit.

Yozora is easily the best fight in the entire game. After him, my favorite would probably be Xion. Master Xehanort and Dark Riku can kiss my ass, those two were frustrating to the very end. The latter's the worst though.

I wonder why the Secret Episode is titled "Falsus Rex..." Could the Yozora we see in Verum Rex not actually be the same as the one we fight here? Falsus Rex Yozora was described by Nameless Star (I forget, but did he also talk about that during the Secret Episode?) to have had his appearance changed, right? So he looked like someone else, but he was changed to look like Verum Rex Yozora. Another question I have is on whether his appearance changing is something his driver knows about... Hmm. So many questions and mysteries. It's gonna be a dreadfully long wait before we learn more but that's part of where the fun is. In a strange way, I wouldn't want my questions answered so soon. Well, I mean, I wouldn't mind if they were.
 

bunkitz

Brave Little Spark
Moderator
Oct 28, 2017
13,559
Come on Sora, i thought you were stronger than that.
OccasionalFineHorsemouse-max-1mb.gif
 

Kamek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,985
After about a week I finally beat Yozora. Took me about 10 hours total to study and learn the patterns and timing. Looking at some of the videos after the fact (because I truly wanted to do this on my own when it comes to KH - never like any spoilers) the only one I didn't figure out was that you could parry the sword he throws at you.

But man, the fucking chills with the throw back to the "Noctic Oji" trailer from Versus 13. Normua is a master at pulling at my heartstrings.

I played Sekiro and got all the beads and I found Yozora to be harder than any boss in that game lol. What an amazing, fulfilling, fight.
 

Zocano

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,026
I'm iffy on Kingdom Hearts as a story to care about anymore because I don't think the character writing is good enough for me to get invested in (takes me out of it more than it can draw me in).

Buuuut, the UX story is a really fun puzzle box to poke apart and piece together. Like Nomura has gotten more and more into the bullshit twist within a twist within a twist shenanigans and the UX story feels like apex of his worldbuilding thus far and I'm at least down for it in that regard. It's how I'm not emotionally invested in Dark Souls but I still like the lore and worldbuilding because it's built as a puzzle box to be prodded at and analyzed. I would like the UX story in a different format though since as a mobile game with slow text boxes, low budget animations (the chibi artwork is good but its down a disservice by the animation quality or lack thereof). Maybe when it's concluded they'll remake it like they did with the X/chi story.

It is genuinely a fun puzzle box/murder mystery/whodunit story to follow along with so we'll see.

And as silly as it is, it would still be *really* fun if Master of Masters is Sora. While it absolutely falls into the whole trap of everyone is Sora or keeping the crux of everything around Sora, I think it would be a fun twist on the character regardless. The most hopeful and joyous person of the series is broken down at some point and pivots into this megalomaniacal destruction seeking villain(???). And good people breaking is my jam.
 

AlexFlame116

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
23,213
Utah
Been fighting Yozora and I honestly have no idea how I'm going to beat him. Especially since I actually run out of potions not even halfway through the battle.

Any tips pls? I really want to win before I start work on Wednesday.
 

SchroDingerzat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Sep 24, 2018
1,600
Insane theory for the day.
Shades = Heartless, and Replicants = Replicas/Nobodies (I say this a Replicants are capable of gaining their own heart/personality, but behave more like a Replicant in function overall). Also I remember reading somewhere that NieR was developed as an adult version of KH.

So my theory is that Vexen was a scientist called Evan that worked on the Replicant program in NieR. His failures with the Replicants in NieR (as Replicants could only be paired with their original heart, plus all the other issues they had) helped him create the Replicas which could be used with any heart.
I will state this theory is insane and highly unlikely. As it would chain the very adult Drakengard/NieR universe to KH.
 
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Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,238
the HELP Menu.
Insane theory for the day.

[Nier Spoilers]

I will state this theory is insane and highly unlikely. As it would chain the very adult Drakengard/NieR universe to KH.

I mean, clearly the two universes are not at all connected, but it's fun to draw parallels between stories with similar elements.

Nier very well could be a version of kingdom hearts where the whole mythos was reversed, where nobodies and heartless were forcibly created in order to survive a cataclysmic event (destruction of the single realm of light), and need to reunite, but can never do so if one or the other is slain.

Pretty interesting stuff!

Also, try to spoiler anything tha spoils other games, I know it was an accident but just be careful, not everyone played nier!
 

SchroDingerzat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Sep 24, 2018
1,600
I mean, clearly the two universes are not at all connected, but it's fun to draw parallels between stories with similar elements.

Nier very well could be a version of kingdom hearts where the whole mythos was reversed, where nobodies and heartless were forcibly created in order to survive a cataclysmic event (destruction of the single realm of light), and need to reunite, but can never do so if one or the other is slain.

Pretty interesting stuff!

Also, try to spoiler anything tha spoils other games, I know it was an accident but just be careful, not everyone played nier!

Ah sorry about that! I have put it into spoilers now.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,471
Australia
Wait, does Re Mind tell us that Vanitas was brought through time? Him being reformed via Monsters Inc was a great explanation that didn't need any time travel bullshit.
 

Nateo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,674
Wait, does Re Mind tell us that Vanitas was brought through time? Him being reformed via Monsters Inc was a great explanation that didn't need any time travel bullshit.
Pretty sure he was always brought through time but his power was restored at Monsters Inc world. Negative energy there was used to power him and bring back the unversed.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,471
Australia
Pretty sure he was always brought through time but his power was restored at Monsters Inc world. Negative energy there was used to power him and bring back the unversed.
I just think that's dumb in general. There was no reason to make him come back via time travel and that makes me kinda iffy on the Darkness character continuing in the present timeline.
I liked the idea of the negative energy reforming him after his defeat in BBS.
 

SchroDingerzat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Sep 24, 2018
1,600
I mean, clearly the two universes are not at all connected, but it's fun to draw parallels between stories with similar elements.

Nier very well could be a version of kingdom hearts where the whole mythos was reversed, where nobodies and heartless were forcibly created in order to survive a cataclysmic event (destruction of the single realm of light), and need to reunite, but can never do so if one or the other is slain.

Pretty interesting stuff!

Also, try to spoiler anything tha spoils other games, I know it was an accident but just be careful, not everyone played nier!

That's extend this insane theory.

The Manikins of Dissidia are also very similar to the Replicas and seem like an even earlier incarnation of the project. Dissidia also began life as a KH game. So what if Cid of the Lufaine is actually Vexen? As a further extension, what if all the FF characters in Hollow Bastion are not just alternate versions, but Manikins that don't realise that they are? Considering we have KH costumes in Dissidia now, it could be an interesting connection.

I will state this is only for fun and seeing how you could easily connect NieR, Dissidia, and Kingdom Hearts.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,106
That's extend this insane theory.

The Manikins of Dissidia are also very similar to the Replicas and seem like an even earlier incarnation of the project. Dissidia also began life as a KH game. So what if Cid of the Lufaine is actually Vexen? As a further extension, what if all the FF characters in Hollow Bastion are not just alternate versions, but Manikins that don't realise that they are? Considering we have KH costumes in Dissidia now, it could be an interesting connection.

I will state this is only for fun and seeing how you could easily connect NieR, Dissidia, and Kingdom Hearts.
On that note, it's weird how Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth are explicitly not from any world we've seen yet unlike Squall and the others who clearly have Radiant Garden as their home (same with the Twilight Town FF characters having TT as their home).

Auron is weird cause if he's not necessarily from the Hercules world then it would mean Hades' underworld connects to damn near all world for souls that have passed on.

Of course, there is that letter that we assume is from Rinoa that Squall gets which could infer he also isn't from Radiant Garden.
 

clockstrikes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,561
On that note, it's weird how Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth are explicitly not from any world we've seen yet unlike Squall and the others who clearly have Radiant Garden as their home (same with the Twilight Town FF characters having TT as their home).

Auron is weird cause if he's not necessarily from the Hercules world then it would mean Hades' underworld connects to damn near all world for souls that have passed on.

Of course, there is that letter that we assume is from Rinoa that Squall gets which could infer he also isn't from Radiant Garden.

Tifa's the only unknown I think? Sephiroth was established as a hero in Olympus during BBS, Cloud is originally from Radiant Garden along with the rest of the gang, and Tifa is this weird possibly non-human light entity so who knows about her.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,106
Tifa's the only unknown I think? Sephiroth was established as a hero in Olympus during BBS, Cloud is originally from Radiant Garden along with the rest of the gang, and Tifa is this weird possibly non-human light entity so who knows about her.
But doesn't Tifa say Cloud and Sephiroth are going back to their own world when they disappear during their fight in KH2?

(I also never knew about the BBS thing. Couldn't that just be him traveling to the world to fight at sometime like Cloud?)
 

clockstrikes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,561
But doesn't Tifa say Cloud and Sephiroth are going back to their own world when they disappear during their fight in KH2?

Nojima says in the Ultimania that line isn't meant to be taken literally. Like the "world" being referred to isn't an actual location but more like a state of mind.

(I also never knew about the BBS thing. Couldn't that just be him traveling to the world to fight at sometime like Cloud?)

It's definitely possible, but inter-world travel was extremely limited during those days. This was before the walls isolating each world were broken by the Heartless, which was what allowed most people to reach other worlds. Of course there were exceptions like Keyblade wielders, people with Star Shards, and powerful wizards like Merlin who just don't follow rules.

But considering Zack is a native to Olympus and the Crisis Core parallels, I think it's possible Sephiroth might come from this world as well. At least until they say otherwise lol

Cloud has a 9-year gap that's unaccounted for, from when he gets left behind during Maleficent's invasion of Radiant Garden to KH1. So whatever way he gets involved with Sephiroth would have taken place during that time.
 

bunkitz

Brave Little Spark
Moderator
Oct 28, 2017
13,559
🙃


So the "other two" mentioned by the Fairy Godmother gotta be Kairi and Ven right?
I didn't know who the other one besides Kairi is, but after the Secret Episode, I thought she might have been referring to Yozora? Wouldn't make much sense, of course, but the timing made me interpret it that way.
 

malyse

Community Resetter
Member
Vanitas says "I am darkness" but I think that might mean I am Darkness, the character in KHX and possibly the overarching villain of everything.

Also, Kairi has the best fighting style of anyone in KH and pushed Armored Xehanort and Xemnas back on their heel. We deserve a game where she's playable during her year of sleep. A parallel to 3D.
 

Kamek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,985
Vanitas says "I am darkness" but I think that might mean I am Darkness, the character in KHX and possibly the overarching villain of everything.

Also, Kairi has the best fighting style of anyone in KH and pushed Armored Xehanort and Xemnas back on their heel. We deserve a game where she's playable during her year of sleep. A parallel to 3D.

There's an interesting theory going around that Darkness is actually Ava.