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Ocarina_117

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,628
Only thing I will say about Labour and antisemitism is that for way too many people it is seen as bigger than racism towards people like me. Once again racism towards poc isn't cared about as prejudice against white people.
You've had conservatives making racist comments against Sikhs this election campaign, and I still have family members supporting them.

The worlds gone mad.

 

ruttyboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
710
Only thing I will say about Labour and antisemitism is that for way too many people it is seen as bigger than racism towards people like me. Once again racism towards poc isn't cared about as prejudice against white people.
Definitely, one thing I've learnt (well, had reinforced really) from this election is that there's a hierarchy of importance when it comes to discrimination. They should all be treated as equally abhorrent, but they clearly aren't, even ignoring the clear and hypocritical abuse of people's genuine fears of anti-semitism by the Tories and Lib Dems.
 

PSOreo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,260
I swear if the Conservatives win tomorrow it'll be a dark day. Please Britain, give us hope again.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,193
Belgium
Only thing I will say about Labour and antisemitism is that for way too many people it is seen as bigger than racism towards people like me. Once again racism towards poc isn't cared about as prejudice against white people.
During one week of campaigning where the issue of racism in politic was central Laura Kuenssberg made 37 tweets about antisemitism in the Labour party and 1 tweet about islamophobia in the Tory party. Should tell you enough how much the BBC cares about racism against non-white people.
 

Salty_Josh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,942

3972302808_ea66e398c0_b.jpg
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,193
Belgium

kharma45

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,414
Praying we'll see the end of the Tories tomorrow. I can't understand how anyone in good conscience can continue to put in power a regime that lets people end up like this. So sad.
 

kradical

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,570
If Survation dont have their poll ready before midnight, are they even allowed to publish it on the day of the election? I have in the back of my mind there's a rule against it

EDIT: nm, made it under the wire, I can go to bed now

 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943


Here are 59 reasons - one for every seat north of the border - for making Scotland a Tory-free zone.

1. 240,000 kids living in poverty in Scotland as a result of heartless Tory policies.

2. The "under-occupancy penalty", otherwise known as the hated bedroom tax.

3. "Live in tents" - the solution Tory candidate Lee Anderson proposed for nuisance tenants.

4. The vile rape clause.

5. 135,000: the number of kids who are homeless in Tory Britain.

6. MSP Michelle Ballantyne saying people on benefits cannot have "as many children as they like".

7. Tory MP Kwasi Kwarteng shrugging off the plight of a brain-damaged teen who faced losing her home as a "sad story".

8. "Strong and stable Government" - what the Tories promised in 2015, but then gave us four years of chaos and national humiliation.

9. "Record employment" - Tory spin for hundreds of thousands of workers being trapped on zero hour contracts.

10. Food bank Britain: low paid workers not earning enough to feed their families.

11. "All in it together" - the Tories put the brakes on public spending while cutting the top rate of income tax.

12. "Tighten our belts" - preaching austerity while finding the money for an inheritance tax cut for the rich.

13. Forcing disabled people to jump through hoops to qualify for meagre benefits.

14. Suspending Tory MPs who questioned the Prime Minister's flawed Brexit strategy.

15. Johnson cosying up to President Trump - a racist demagogue who BoJo sees as a kindred spirit.

16. Creating a "hostile environment" for immigrants living in the UK.

17. Presiding over a system of "deregulation" that led to the Grenfell tragedy.

18. The heartbreak of the Windrush scandal.

19. Failing to get to grips with Islamophobia in the Conservative party.

20. Johnson using a newspaper column to compare Muslim women to letterboxes.

21. Backing "voter id" at polling stations - a ruse used by the US Republicans to depress African American turnout.

22. Parliamentary "boundary reform" - another Tory con to make it easier for Johnson to secure a majority.

23. Increasing stop and search, despite there being no evidence it leads to a reduction in crime.

24. Scrapping housing benefit for 18-21 year olds - another attack on the rights of young people.

25. Getting rid of maintenance grants for poorer students.

26. Passing the hypocritical Trade Union Act, which makes it harder for workers to take industrial action against bad bosses.

27. Abolishing child poverty targets because soaring rates embarrass wealthy Tory Ministers.

28. Giving Holyrood stingy increases to its block grant and ensuring austerity is a daily reality for Scots.

29. Introducing exorbitant fees - later declared illegal - for workers to bring an employment tribunal case.

30. Freezing the wages of hard-working public servants.

31. Johnson declining to say how many children he has fathered, while requiring benefit claimants to answer intrusive questions about their family life.

32. Johnson refusing to look at the photo of a four year old child who was lying on the floor of an NHS hospital.

33. Johnson making reckless comments about Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, which have led to her continued detention in Iran.

34. Tory MP Gavin Williamson getting fired from the Cabinet amid a suspected national security leak, but returning months later.

35. Priti Patel resigning from the Cabinet over private meetings with Israeli politicians, but being given a second chance by Johnson.

36. Johnson giving a top Government role to Vote Leave chief Dominic Cummings, who refused to give evidence to a Commons committee.

37. Blocking the publication of a report into Russian interference in the UK's democracy.

38. Johnson suggesting he wants to axe the BBC license fee.

39. Interim Scots Tory leader Jackson Carlaw downplaying austerity by saying there is a "certain amount" of poverty.

40. Johnson lying to the Queen.

41. Johnson refusing to meet ordinary voters in Scotland on the streets.

42. Threatening the UK with a ruinous no-deal Brexit in order to appease Tory headbangers.

43. Andrew Mitchell resigning from the Cabinet over claims he called the police "plebs".

44. Alun Cairns standing down as a Cabinet minister over claims he knew about a former aide's role in the "sabotage" of a rape trial.

45. Damian Green resigning from the Cabinet after making "misleading" statements about pornography allegations.

46 Andrew Griffiths quitting as a Minister after bombarding female constituents with sexual text messages.

47. Trying, and failing, to slash tax credits for the working poor.

48. Creating misery for thousands of families with the botched introduction of Universal Credit.

49. The Scottish Tory party's craven capitulation to Johnson.

50. The privatisation of the Royal Mail.

51. Signing a now-cancelled contract for post-Brexit ferries with a firm that didn't own any ferries.

52. Trying to bring back fox hunting - a move so unpopular even Johnson has abandoned it.

53. David Cameron linking extra powers for Holyrood to 'English votes for English laws'.

54. Candidate Darren Henry suggesting people using food banks struggle with managing their budget.

55. Johnson ally Ross Thomson being accused of multiple sexual assaults.

56. Tory MP Gordon Henderson saying he "personally can't do anything" about child poverty in his area.

57 Chris Grayling.

58 Esther McVey.

59 Jacob Rees-Mogg.


Some of these points are a bit eh/meh, but the last 3 🤣
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
It's almost go time!

Hope everyone in this thread manages to cast a vote tomorrow and hope the country has a positive vibe come 10pm tomorrow.

Differences aside - and fuck me are there a fair few in this thread - it's been broadly on the same boat.

Whatever happens, let's hope the next 5 years (although let's be honest, at our rate we'll be back at the polls before then) are more progressive than whatever the fuck the last 9 have been.
 

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
You said, "saying that those Jewish people who are concerned are wrong to feel unsafe is crossing the line". If they are unfounded how is it wrong to challenge that viewpoint? Of course I can understand someone who believes there is reason to be afraid is afraid, but I don't get why it's a red line to point out that they might be wrong, especially if it is supported with evidence etc.. Are people's opinions so sancrosanct that they should never be questioned?

Because it's a completely subjective assessment. There is AS around the Labour party. How much is subjective, how dangerous it is, is subjective. By all means attack the people who have whipped things up and I'm not saying you shouldn't defend Corbyn from the accusations some make against him. But I think that challenging someone on whether they feel safe when you are outside that community, and considering the historical context, is unjust. You can't say someone is wrong to be afraid. Because they will still be afraid no matter how many different arguments you use. So where does that leave them?
 

kharma45

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,414
If Survation dont have their poll ready before midnight, are they even allowed to publish it on the day of the election? I have in the back of my mind there's a rule against it

EDIT: nm, made it under the wire, I can go to bed now



AP, as in the Alliance Party in NI? Only AP I can think of. Strange if so they list them and not DUP or SF.
 

ruttyboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
710
Because it's a completely subjective assessment. There is AS around the Labour party. How much is subjective, how dangerous it is, is subjective. By means attack the people who have whipped things up and I'm not saying you shouldn't defend Corbyn from the accusations some make against him. But I think that challenging someone on whether they feel safe when you are outside that community, and considering the historical context, is unjust. You can't say someone is wrong to be afraid. Because they will still be afraid no matter how many different arguments you use. So where does that leave them?
I think we might be at cross purposes here. I'm not and never would argue about whether someone feels safe or not, only about whether they have any need to. If I can convince someone that there is no reason to be afraid (assuming there genuinely isn't) then surely that's a good thing?
 

Ferrasvansen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
512
Azeroth(Scotland)
Looking at the polls tonight, it's just a question of how large a majority. Time to get the whisky out, not drank anything in a year but it's time, going to be a terrible 5 years and god help the poor and sick and disabled.
 

Xiofire

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,174
Fully expecting a Tory majority tomorrow, but I have everything crossed that Jezza can pull out a blinder and shock everyone.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,820
Will be interested to see why Survation don't have BXP listed. Are they predicting a completely irrelevant amount percentage of the vote or just didn't add them in to keep it somewhat concise
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Looking at the polls tonight, it's just a question of how large a majority. Time to get the whisky out, not drank anything in a year but it's time, going to be a terrible 5 years and god help the poor and sick and disabled.

Seeing as you spelt whisky correctly, we'll save the UK by offering sane English people asylum in Scotland.
 

ruttyboy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
710
Looking at the polls tonight, it's just a question of how large a majority. Time to get the whisky out, not drank anything in a year but it's time, going to be a terrible 5 years and god help the poor and sick and disabled.
At least the Jews will be OK.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is entirely tongue in cheek given the recent discussion!
 

Xevross

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,049
Only one poll showing hung parliament territory and its still in a CON government favouring area. We gotta hope the polls are wrong on a historic level.

This is very close to what I'm thinking (more like hoping at this point), wondering what their method is to come to this.

I'd say we're at about a 5% chance of a labour government at this point, if that. But 5% isn't 0, we all gotta do our part today.
 

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
I think we might be at cross purposes here. I'm not and never would argue about whether someone feels safe or not, only about whether they have any need to. If I can convince someone that there is no reason to be afraid (assuming there genuinely isn't) then surely that's a good thing?

Yeah but you can't. Because all you have is opinions.
 

GrizzleBoy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,762
It's your opinion that they are unfounded. And the suggestion that a Corbyn government would discriminate against Jews is outlandish. But the antisemitism is there, on the fringes of the party, It's not been whipped up out of nothing. And it hasn't been dealt with brilliantly, by the party's own admission. It's easy for us to say 'oh that's nothing, other things are more important' but to a jewish person or to some jewish people anyway, who live with all the legacy of the Jewish experience in Europe, it's understandable that those incidents, petty as they may be and inconsequential as they may seem to you, will be frightening. And people should understand that and not attempt to argue it away or imply ulterior motives. Of course not all jewish people feel the same way but those that do don't deserve to be called out for it.
Some absolutely do deserve to be called out for it.

For instance.

I think the biggest issue with the entire antisemitism row, is that comes across as an exercise in revealing whether some people talking about it actually care about racism or whether they specifically just care about anti semitism.

The chief Rabbi who obviously doesnt like anti semitism, waded into the election cycle by releasing an anti corbyn/labour statement that started with explaining his delight about his friend Boris Johnson who has a history of saying actually straight up racist things direct from his own mouth becoming leader of the conservative party.

He said that a labour government risks changing the soul of the country for the worst. The tory party and its ukippy side projects have done 100× more to alter the soul of the country, including an increase in hate crimes of every kind since brexit, than Jeremy Corbyn ever could.

Does the Cheif Rabbi actually care about racism and the actual soul of the nation?

Or is it specifically just anti semitism that he cares about and that's why he supports a demonstrable racist in BoJo for PM?

I not know exactly what the word is for the feeling I get in my stomach, but when you have an entire media narrative that X person/party is unfit to lead because Y community would consider leaving the country, but give a pass to or sweep under the rug the fact that person/party A actually rounded up people of B community and illegally deported them to countries where they have nothing (some of whom have ended up dying soon after) like it's all good, nothing to see here it makes you wonder.
 
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RellikSK

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,470
if labour loses then prepare for a tsunami of "Corbyn sucks labor should run to the center" posts

Number 1 fear that if Corbyn looses, Labour will go too centrist or move too much to the right.
We need someone who can unite the left and centre of the party, the vision of Corbyn with the political effectiveness of Blair, someone who sees the value of and supports Momentum/the membership but also challenges them.
 

Xevross

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,049
A deep dive showed that their final 2017 poll wasn't quite what legend has it as being. There's more to polling than the topline figures.
Indeed, I don't believe they'll be as close this time and their performance last election has 0 impact on this one. We gotta hope its Comres this time who've managed to be the most accurate against the trend.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,782
So if the NI math is:

DUP = 8
SF = 7
SDLP = 2
Alliance = 1

Plus the Speaker, how many seats can the Tories win and still not be able to form a majority with the DUP?

Seems that a 321 would be a majority, so Tories would need to get 312 or below if that math checks out? Is that right?
 
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