shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,813
Been saying this would be the case for a while now, and it's unfolding pretty much how I've expected. The pandemic showed many workers that much (if not most) of their work can be done perfectly fine remotely and they're not going back. The genie's out of the bottle at this point. I know I've completely written off companies that aren't flexible while job seeking.


View: https://twitter.com/TIME/status/1681404086548086808?s=20

The beginning of 2023 brought the end of some remote-work policies as Disney, Starbucks, and Activision Blizzard all said they would require employees to come into the office more frequently.

Employees complained, and there was some anecdotal evidence that in-office mandates were costing those and other companies good workers, who voted with their feet and went elsewhere.

Now, the proof is getting stronger that a lack of flexibility can hurt in the long term. Companies with flexible work policies are growing more quickly than those that require people to be in the office full-time, according to The Flex Index, released July 18, which collects office requirements on more than 4,500 companies with 30,000 locations and that employ more than 100 million people globally.

Specifically, in the last year, companies—regardless of their size—that are fully flexible added jobs at more than twice the rate of companies that were full-time in office.

"It seems pretty clear that the companies that are full time in-office are having a harder time attracting talent than the companies that offer some level of flexibility,"
says Rob Sadow, CEO and co-founder of Scoop, the technology company that publishes the report.

Even companies that offer some level of flexibility, whether it be two or three days working from home, have grown more quickly than those that require full-time in-office. Among companies that have between 500 and 5,000 employees, for example, structured hybrid companies (i.e., that require employees to come in on some specific days, but not on others) grew headcount 4.6% over the year, while fully flexible companies of that size grew 4.5%. Full-time in-office companies of that size grew only 2.1%, by comparison.

But there's a limit to what kind of hybrid arrangement employees seem willing to commit to. Companies that require 1-3 days in the office grew much faster than those that required four or five, the report found.

"Once you start getting closer to full-time in office, requiring four or five days, I think there's a bright line starting to emerge for employees and for your ability to attract talent,"
Sadow says.

screenshot2023-07-19ar7dgc.png
screenshot2023-07-19a9cem7.png


Of course, headcount growth is not necessarily a proxy for a company's financial health. But in this economy, with an extremely low unemployment rate and some industries still reporting wars over talent, the companies that are hiring are typically the ones growing revenue, Sadow says.

Atlassian is one company that has committed to being fully flexible. In August 2020, it announced its Team Anywhere policy, which allows employees to decide if they want to be in-office or not. Since then, the company has more than doubled in headcount, from 4,907 to 11,067. (Atlassian also laid off 500 employees in March because of the "difficult macroeconomic environment.") "We're doing [remote work] unequivocally and we're winning faster than everybody else," co-CEO Scott Farquhar told me recently. Atlassian still has offices, but it allows employees to decide when (and whether) they want to go in. About half of the company's new hires live more than two hours from an office, which means they were in locations that Atlassian previously wouldn't have been able to hire from. The company has also been able to increase diversity because it can hire people who live outside major cities; previously, its biggest U.S. office and headquarters was in the San Francisco Bay Area.
Full article: https://time.com/6294640/remote-work-winning/
 
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9wilds

Member
Jan 1, 2022
3,979
Absolutely shocking. I'd refuse a 25% raise if it meant full time in the office.
 

bangai-o

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,527
As someone who has to be at work in-person, please get all these desk people off the roads!
 

Lkr

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,102
my company went hard with remote hires and are not letting up. they realize that no one wants to relocate to bumfuck middle of nowhere, georgia in order to work for them
 

Krauser Kat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,738
I love remote work and also seeing my colleagues. Will never work a full time in the office job again.

Remote work is better at showing forever corpo problems of 5 people doing the 80% of the work of a 20 person cohort but thats an extension of corporate work not because of remote.
 

SilkySm00th

Member
Oct 31, 2017
4,883
Anyone who was on the technical side of setting up the switch over when Covid properly hit and was sending everyone home knew this was the case. You don't cross that particular line with employees and then walk it back. Completely impossible.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,425
Canada
Working form home let me change my diet and habits around --- like all for the better.

Commuting sucks.
 

BasilZero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
37,063
Omni
Not quick enough

Needs to be a standard - would help traffic issues immensely in places that have that issue
 

Älg

Banned
May 13, 2018
3,178
I would never take a job that wsa fully in office. There's not amount of (realistic) money that would make it worth it.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
13,493
My company tried to return to office and it backfired spectacularly that they put the plan on hold indefinitely. Wouldn't affect me either way as a territory account manager, but it was amusing to watch the town hall with our CEO when it was announced and the next one after all the pushback where the plan pause was announced lol.
 

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
Working form home let me change my diet and habits around --- like all for the better.

Commuting sucks.
Yeah, i can take a walk everyday. I can eat better food. I can masturbate if i want to. I can take a shit in some clean toilets. I'm not spending money into commuting or restaurants. WFH is the future.
 

starpower

Digital Dumpster Diver
Banned
Jan 23, 2018
4,103
Canada
I bet the energy and time saved from commuting improves people's lives and their happiness. The internet is a great tool for this, use it
 

fadedbones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,625
Oh my word, maybe there's hope for me in the future to go back to 100% remote. Switched to office/hybrid for a 15% raise but it is just not for me at all.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,873
Every week there's a new 'sky is falling' article about how WFH is crashing the commercial real estate market and I just nod and go 'good.'
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,055
Gatorland
Been a reoccuring issue in the Higher Education system. Here in Florida, so many schools flocked to forcing their employees to return full time that they started actively leaving for remote jobs.
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,752
The only way I would go back to the office if they oay me for the commute. I start getting paid the moment I leave my front door and stop once I am at home. They will pay my fuel costs and if there is traffic its the company's lost time.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,096
Yeah I'm a data scientist

If you don't want to offer me remote working I'll just work somewhere else or for myself. My skills are so in demand I have that kind of leverage in the job process. So I don't think I'll ever work in person again. Good to hear that the jobs out there will probably remain remotely available, because that especially applies to my field.

Which means it's possible people in fields like mine are causing this kind of pressure on employers too
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
39,137
I work about ten times better from home than I do in an office, as I don't have people breathing down my neck at all hours of the day, popping into my office. I hope I never go back.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,695
Anyone who was on the technical side of setting up the switch over when Covid properly hit and was sending everyone home knew this was the case. You don't cross that particular line with employees and then walk it back. Completely impossible.

Well if all the big tech companies do layoffs at the same time and the job market gets stagnant...
 

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,210
I will never go back to working in the office. Working from home since 2020 has been the greatest thing to ever happen in my work life. My Wife & I see each other all of the time and love having our fun conversations while working (she also works from home), and I don't have to drive in the dangerous traffic here in Nashville. I have never been happier!
 

louiedog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,647
My partner now goes to the office about once per month. She's actually got called in for a meeting this week, but they moved it from the office to a restaurant for lunch. Previously, 3 days she was in the local office, but twice a week she was waking up at 5:30 AM to commute 2 hours to a difference office. It was only 40 miles, but every other poor soul having to commute at the same time and go through the same thing made it take that long.

It's a team full of people who work a lot of hours, answer emails at all times, and make things happen. Should they have to work that many hours? Probably not, but at least she and others aren't now spending 10+ hours a week commuting, which we can now see was not at all necessary.
 

InfiniDragon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,413
I had the good fortune to work for a company that was full time WFH before the pandemic, so it absolutely isn't going back to in-office.

Never going back to full-time in-office work if I can help it.
 

Nakho

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,392
I'm doing two days a week in the office and it's still completely unnecessary. Half my team works like 500 km away. All we do is go to the office, open MS Teams and have the exact same meetings I could have in my pajamas.

And about the commercial real estate: who the fuck cares? I thought we were living under capitalism so that entire industries could be disrupted overnight for "creative destruction" but apparently that only works that way when it's to fuck over workers.
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,862
I'm about to get forced back into the office...probably. There's a potential issue with space that I hope saves me and my team. :(

It's so frustrating. Working from home is great, not just for me, but arguably for the company as well. I've now been WFH for 2.5 years, and have never had a sick day in that time. I've been sick, but I just work anyway; what's the difference? And I am essentially on call 24/7, and often do work outside of normal hours if I think it's necessary. I've also taken less than half the vacation I'm entitled, for various reasons, but that includes simply not feeling as though I desperately need a break.

All that will end if I'm put back on-site. I'm not going to leave work, get home and remote back in. And I'm not dragging my ass in if I'm sick. And I'm sure as hell taking every last vacation day, just as I used to before WFH.
 

famicorpse

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Mar 15, 2019
2,356
Where are these jobs? As an IT Support Specialist, I can't find them. But good for folks who get to work remote. I'd like if more people did so that traffic improved.
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,086
Good. Turn the fucking screws on any company trying to force people back into the office.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
17,363
I've said it before and I'll say it again, unless you provide a decent public transportation system or buy me a car, I'm not gonna be at the office every day.
 

Pirateluigi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,117
I left my last job when they wanted me to go in full-time for a full remote job (and higher pay). Thankfully my new company plans to always be fully remote so I don't need to worry about getting dragged back.

I honestly could not imagine going back in full time unless it was for a significant pay bump, and even then I'd be hesitant.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,062
Not surprising. This was the way things were trending with tech jobs already before the pandemic, covid basically accelerated that, expanding it to other sectors and there's no going back.
My last two workplaces haven't even owned offices.
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
7,080
No one actually worries about commercial real estate outside of how much banks are exposed to bad debt from it.

Not having remote hiring in fields with a lot of existing remote workers makes filling open headcount very hard and return to work programs are more or less backdoor attrition policies targeting existing remote workers.

Personally, I love being in the office and find meetings full of remote faces on screens soulless and highly demotivating, even if they are objectively 'productive'. I hope that there are still some companies that can make in-office work for their culture for people like me, but those companies are certainly not ever going to be a majority of business like it used to be. That was already ending even before the pandemic hit.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
20,480
Been WFH for the past 3 years and management wants to drag us all back by September. Some are already back at the office. I don't see it going too well and more will leave rather than go back.

Fuck, I really wanna continue to WFH. There isn't a single aspect of my job that requires being in the office
 

Saito

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,837
My company is hybrid and we attract much better talent because of it. These companies that refuse to change will learn the hard way.

People who like in person or full time in office or a minority, kind of tired of hearing from them to be honest. I heard McDonalds/Walmart are looking for employees if your really craving that constant human contact.
 

Davidion

Charitable King
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,402
I like going into the office, and dislike WFH.

Companies that require full time attendance can fuck off.
 

Addie

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,954
These threads are always wild for me.

I was never WFH, even during peak COVID. Glad y'all got a better arrangement.

My preference would be a 2/3 hybrid, except I'm in TX now and I don't mind 5 days in the office since their AC is free…
 

Kasai

Member
Jan 24, 2018
4,330
I literally went into banking from food with the hope that I'll be able to move up and work remotely in a couple years.

Sure I'm literally a bank teller, but eventually I'll get some of that sweet, sweet remote work.
 

The Climaxan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,065
NC-USA
My company is full hybrid. No rules on how many days you gotta be in. Just be accountable for your work. I still go to the office 3-4 days a week because I like to, but it's so nice to have the freedom to not go when I need to be home. When they threatened to be in person again more than half the office said they'd be finding new jobs within 6 months and management backed down hella fast. It you want to run a successful company, you have to allow for remote work if it's possible now. Otherwise you're on borrowed time.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,677
Remote work is viewed as a perk and a recruiting tool so it makes perfect sense that companies offering it are hiring more.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,126
Houston
Where are these jobs? As an IT Support Specialist, I can't find them. But good for folks who get to work remote. I'd like if more people did so that traffic improved.
so are you like helpdesk? as in going to peoples desks to fix their machines?

typically if thats the role you're in you need to step up to sys admin, or specialize in like automation/infra as code/monitoring etc to get remote roles in IT.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,601
Knowledgebase technical writer here.

My team now has remote employees all over the US. Genie is way out of the bottle for my team and a lot of my company's teams.

And objectively, the company knows it's good for them too because they don't have to pay higher local wages for certain technical positions - its headquarters are in a blue state's main city, after all. There's going to be a dark side of this that helps keeps wages down (as if there weren't already enough forces keeping wages down), but that's also why remote is going to stick.
 

Torpedo Vegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,283
Parts Unknown.
Good for those working from home, but I could never do it. I don't have the willpower. With Diablo 4 out now and BG3 and Starfield around the corner I would do fuck all, all day and be fired.
 

famicorpse

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Mar 15, 2019
2,356
so are you like helpdesk? as in going to peoples desks to fix their machines?

typically if thats the role you're in you need to step up to sys admin, or specialize in like automation/infra as code/monitoring etc to get remote roles in IT.

Yeah? But I do a bunch of remote troubleshooting because the majority of our office staff works offsite. I'm looking to move into Front End Dev/UX anyway, so I've stopped looking and just decided to suck it up for now.