The Nature of Causality: What Should Switch Owners Do in Regards to Delayed Multiplatform Games?

[Gotdatmoney]

So what? The audience you spoke of is there. They're the majority of users.

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Eh no, an ecosystem of games is not the same thing as a userbase. Just because the Switch has an older userbase that doesn't mean that those users are as receptive to titles that are the PS4/XB1's bread and butter. That in combination with the hardware specs make the system a lower priority for those types of games.

 

[Metallix87]

It's impressive that every time some drawback/controversy happens around Nintendo and third-parties, fans take the opportunity to use the same old faulty rethorics and intellectual dishonesty to create conspiracy theories and theses of persecution.

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I mean, we know flat-out that third parties actively did their best to ensure Wii was a failure comparative to 360 and PS3, so it makes complete sense that people would feel they are standing opposed to Nintendo.

 

[Revolsin]

f being happy that you're atleast getting the game,

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That's the thing really, why is it something to be happy about that we're at least getting the game? Like that in itself is some kind of reward, when it's a given on any other system. It's just a port, why should anyone be remotely thankful for receiving it? Why should Switch owners specifically grovel at their feet and praise them for a releasing a port? Talk about a depressing state of affairs.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

It shouldn't be last priority. Switch will outsell Xbox One soon enough, is breaking sales records, and games on the platform are selling like hotcakes. It's literally counter-intuitive, in 2018, to make it last priority.

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It's sales have nothing to do with the weakness of the hardware, which is why the Switch is treated differently than the other consoles.

Nintendo loves to do things differently, including releasing much weaker hardware than its contemporaries, and this is, unfortunately, one of the consequences of that decision.

Multiplatform releases will always be treated as an afterthought on the Switch because such releases must be scaled down or even ported by a different company. It's unrealistic to expect developmental parity when the system is so far behind even the vanilla iterations of current-gen consoles.

It's not meant as a slight to Switch owners but rather it comes down to logistics.

I own a Switch and love it but I also understand the reality of the situation.

 

[Strangelove_77]

If you're dumb enough to double dip then that's your fault. Companies are just doing what they're meant to do - make the most money.
If you don't like being taken advantage of, stop being taken advantage of.

 

[Metallix87]

Eh no, an ecosystem of games is not the same thing as a userbase. Just because the Switch has an older userbase that doesn't mean that those users are as receptive to titles that are the PS4/XB1's bread and butter. That in combination with the hardware specs make the system a lower priority for those types of games.

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Again, sales of titles that skew older on Switch, like Zelda, Skyrim, and Doom, prove you're literally full of shit in this regard, and spewing bullshit.

 

[decoyplatypus]

Here's the problem though. If these late ports keep selling, publishers will never decide to get the Switch version day and date with other platforms.

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Look at this way: you've already observed (rightly, I think) that boycotting late ports only leads publishers to conclude there's no money in the platform and abandon it altogether. Buying the game -- that you want to play -- may not "punish" behavior you dislike, but you're still much better off than you would be under the boycott scenario. And high sales on a late port are much likelier to persuade the Publisher to go day and date than no sales at all.

 

[Niceguydan8]

late ports + 10 bucks more on Switch on top of an already full price = anti-consumer

Why should i pay 60-70 a game that costs 20-30 elsewhere?

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If you want to make the argument that certain people won't purchase a game because of a price that is too high for them being anti-consumer, you would then need to accept the argument that any price that prices out anyone is anti-consumer, which I highly doubt is what you were trying to get across.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

I will never understand how portability is worth all the other negatives. Just switch platforms if you want to play the games ASAP.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

I read your post. You're tying yourself in knots about who Switch games are marketed at, while we're looking at the reality of who's actually buying them.

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Not at all. You posted a graph entirely unrelated to the point I made. No where did I state the Switch's audience is younger. I know it isn't.

 

[Corporate Clown]

To anyone who legitimately believes there is some sort of conspiracy including Sony, double dipping, or anything like that, I have an honest question; Do your friends and family know you're an idiot or is it just us Resetera folks who are exposed to your nonsense?

 

[low-G]

late ports are anti-consumer? WHAT?

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Giving customers time to see the hype cycle in its full glory is anti-consumer because it turns you into a non-consumer :P

 

[Lozjam]

It's impressive that every time some drawback/controversy happens around Nintendo and third-parties, fans take the opportunity to use the same old faulty rethorics and intellectual dishonesty to create conspiracy theories and theses of persecution.

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This is coming from the same publisher who has done this:

KS: There's an overwhelmingly insane support for a Nintendo Switch version of FighterZ. Have you seen the outreach and is there anything you would like to say to them?

TH: In terms of the Switch version, we're currently working on Xenoverse 2 for the Switch, so we want players to first go there, and then we can talk about FighterZ.

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[GrimJawz]

Jesus Christ why does it seem like some of you legitimately have a need to be victims or something, they aren't doing this on purpose just to piss off your self important ass, either someone or something fucked up, its that simple, there probably just as upset about it as you are.

 

[Thuddert]

Switch owners should get used to the idea that nothing is perfect on switch and it takes some effort to get it right.

Also don't use the nature of causality if you're not actually discussing causality but the result.

 

[Metallix87]

Not at all. You posted a graph entirely unrelated to the point I made. No where did I state the Switch's audience is younger. I know it isn't.

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Again, you're ignoring sales data of titles. Stop. You were wrong, own it and move on.

 

[iamandy]

I mean, we know flat-out that third parties actively did their best to ensure Wii was a failure comparative to 360 and PS3, so it makes complete sense that people would feel they are standing opposed to Nintendo.

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Of course not. PS3 or X360 were treated like twins and received the same content. 3rd parties were really prolific and hardworking in bringing experiences that were unique and appropriate to the Wii.

 

[UnNamed]

I don't see any problem.
I don't want to pay for despatched overpriced games and I will not pay;
I don't care to wait some time to play the game I want on Switch;
I don't have any problem to wait for a price drop.

 

[Deleted member 36622]

Charging what people are willing to pay is pretty pro-consumer. I wouldn't doubt it if NIntendo saw portability as a premium feature and is thus taxing for it. Their land, their rules.

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But that's not Nintendo, and as Reggie said last year, Nintendo doesn't control prices of third party games anymore.

 

[Poutine Runner 2049]

Not at all. You posted a graph entirely unrelated to the point I made. No where did I state the Switch's audience is younger. I know it isn't.

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How is Switch marketing targeting kids or families/all ages when most marketing we've seen outside of Labo has depicted young adults?

Its something people talked about extensively when Switch trailers started airing.

Edit: Switch reveal trailer, not a single shot of a kid or family.

 

[Revolsin]

I will never understand how portability is worth all the other negatives. Just switch platforms if you want to play the games ASAP.

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Portability is the only reason this release is worth anything as far as I'm concerned. 60fps Dark Souls already exists as dsfix on my PC. The console versions actually look like a downgrade right now with the weirdass lighting.

Portable Souls though? That's some cool shit.

 

[Skittzo]

I will never understand how portability is worth all the other negatives. Just switch platforms if you want to play the games ASAP.

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Some people (like myself) do not have any appreciable amount of time to play on a stationary console. I typically do most of my gaming now either in bed or in my office during lunch, since I have a newborn and don't really have time to play games while she's awake.

I don't give a shit about resolution or framerate if I can't actually play the games. Dark Souls at 30fps is better than no Dark Souls at all. DOOM at 30fps with drops and at 570p (or whatever it was) is better than no DOOM at all.

 

[tuffy]

There's a lot of very good games coming out for the Switch in the near future. If Namco is unwilling or unable to make the Switch port of their title a priority, I won't make buying it a priority; I'll simply cancel my preorder and buy a different game.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

To anyone who legitimately believes there is some sort of conspiracy including Sony, double dipping, or anything like that, I have an honest question; Do your friends and family know you're an idiot or is it just us Resetera folks who are exposed to your nonsense?

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[UCBooties]

I accept that it takes time to port games to less powerful hardware and a lot of these delays are going to be inevitable because the Switch ports aren't being developed simultaneous with the PS4/XBO release and are often being ported by contractors or outside studios. It's not ideal but in most cases I'm happy to wait for the Switch version.

It's also not just a case of big name AAA publishers ignoring the Switch, we've seen a number of indie games get lengthy delays due to issues with porting to the Switch (Battlechasers Nightwar, Rime, and while Hollow Night may not count depending on your definition of "delay" it certainly seems to have taken longer than they hoped to get it ready). KoeiTecmo is pushing a lot of ports but the quality is so spotty that they are refusing to release some of them, including the Dragon Quest Heroes collection and the Sanada Musou game, outside of Japan.

It's pretty obvious that porting to the Switch is hard and a lot of these teams are having to make a tough call between releasing sooner and quality.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Again, you're ignoring sales data of titles. Stop. You were wrong, own it and move on.

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Dude, you listed 3 titles. 2 of which we dont even know the sales of. One of which definitely is not a million seller (Skyrim is probably the other million seller from last year along with M+R).

3 titles is your evidence against generations of Sony and MS platforms?

 

[Metallix87]

Of course not. PS3 or X360 were treated like twins and received the same content. 3rd parties were really prolific and hardworking in bringing experiences that were unique and appropriate to the Wii.

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This is simply not true. Resident Evil 4 was a huge success on Wii, and we literally got boned afterwards.

 

[Deleted member 4869]

Beggers can't be choosers.

They should be happy they are at least getting some ports.

 

[Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric]

Some people (like myself) do not have any appreciable amount of time to play on a stationary console. I typically do most of my gaming now either in bed or in my office during lunch, since I have a newborn and don't really have time to play games while she's awake.

I don't give a shit about resolution or framerate if I can't actually play the games. Dark Souls at 30fps is better than no Dark Souls at all. DOOM at 30fps with drops and at 570p (or whatever it was) is better than no DOOM at all.

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That's fair and I appreciate the mindset but I also think Switch owners need to be realistic about these ports and why they may take a bit longer to happen.

 

[Renna Hazel]

We can either buy their games or not. I don't really need any third party games so if they wont treat Switch owners fairly, I simply wont purchase their games. I'm in it for Nintendo's games, the rest is just a bonus.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Again, you're ignoring sales data of titles. Stop. You were wrong, own it and move on.

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Where is the actual sales data? Saying that it "sold well" isn't data.

 

[Deleted member 29674]

I'm upset about the delay because Dark Souls is one of my favorite games, and I was looking forward to playing it on the way to work on my birthday. However, I can't completely fault Bandai Namco for wanting to harvest the whales. It's potentially a good business strategy as long as the game itself is good: get sales from people who can't wait, and whip up the late version's audience into a frenzy.

This was probably a manufacturing delay because of the Amiibo, though.

I'll just wait for the Switch version. Someday I might double dip on the PS4 version when it's 'free' on PS+ or after its inevitable race to the bottom price drop in 3-6 months.

To anyone who legitimately believes there is some sort of conspiracy including Sony, double dipping, or anything like that, I have an honest question; Do your friends and family know you're an idiot or is it just us Resetera folks who are exposed to your nonsense?

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Just you kind folks and my other internet friends.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

How is Switch marketing targeting kids or families/all ages when most marketing we've seen outside of Labo has depicted young adults?

Its something people talked about extensively when Switch trailers started airing.

Edit: Switch reveal trailer, not a single shot of a kid or family.

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You should argue points I actually made. The Switch's major titles. Who are they targeted towards?

 

[Skittzo]

That's fair and I appreciate the mindset but I also think Switch owners need to be realistic about these ports and why they may take a bit longer to happen.

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I'm not as upset as the OP is about these in general. Hell, I'm actually pretty thrilled about things like Wolfenstein 2 and South Park.

But I'm really pissed about Dark Souls, a 7 year old game which was shown off 2 weeks ago and was running beautifully in the most notoriously demanding areas on this hardware.

 

[stan423321]

I don't think that's a good "collective" question.

For instance, I plan to buy a Switch, but I don't generally plan buying games for it that are also on my home platform of PC, unless there's something interesting about Switch version specifically as opposed to it just being on Switch. So to me a delay here changes nothing.

If you feel - inversely - that Switch is your home platform due to portable analog sticks and what-not, I don't see why wouldn't you wait.

If you are a digital cosmopolitan, then it's not really different from every other situation where ports are not exact (and/or there's no cross-play), it's just another difference.

 

[Deleted member 32018]

That's fair and I appreciate the mindset but I also think Switch owners need to be realistic about these ports and why they may take a bit longer to happen.

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I think the main issue is that it looked to be running just fine from the footage we saw at PAX. So it's a case of wondering what the delay is because of. It would help if they were a little more transparent with the issues.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Beggers can't be choosers.

They should be happy they are at least getting some ports.

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Wut

 

[36 Chambers]

Dark Souls got delayed. It's not that big of a deal. Calm down.

 

[skyappl]

Gosh, it's just video games. Buy what you like. There's no obligation for anything.

 

[Deleted member 19702]

Of course not. PS3 or X360 were treated like twins and received the same content. 3rd parties were really prolific and hardworking in bringing experiences that were unique and appropriate to the Wii.

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Bullshit. RE4 Wii Edition sold greatly on it and created an ecosystem for the franchise, but Capcom decided to ignore it by skipping RE5 and by bringing lightgun shooters instead. Same goes for COD4 which wasn't initially announced for Wii but got a 2 years old late port, selling nicely and making Activision to keep releasing the franchise on it.

It's funny when Nintendo detractors try to justify the unjustifiable.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

It shouldn't be last priority. Switch will outsell Xbox One soon enough, is breaking sales records, and games on the platform are selling like hotcakes. It's literally counter-intuitive, in 2018, to make it last priority.

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PS4's install base is getting near 80 million. Having a game on PS4 means easy porting to XB1 and PC. This will be the priority for the majority of developers as its their largest base and in many cases has already brought good results.

 

[Metallix87]

Where is the actual sales data? Saying that it "sold well" isn't data.

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It's not hard data, but it's enough to suggest the market is there, coupled with user base data.

Dude, you listed 3 titles. 2 of which we dont even know the sales of. One of which definitely is not a million seller (Skyrim is probably the other million seller from last year along with M+R).

3 titles is your evidence against generations of Sony and MS platforms?

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I listed the mature titles from last year that match your description, and they were all successful.

 

[kennyamr]

Would it be better if they released it at the same time as the other consoles but with several problems and bugs?

At least they are not making people spend their money on broken games. They would love to get the money early, but they are holding it back so people can fully enjoy the game to its best.

It's a shame that it's released late, yes, either because of the old hardware on the Switch or lack of online infrastructure by Nintendo, whatever the case, at least they are working on it, and you all will pay for a game that is actually good and not full of bugs.

 

[Puffy]

To anyone who legitimately believes there is some sort of conspiracy including Sony, double dipping, or anything like that, I have an honest question; Do your friends and family know you're an idiot or is it just us Resetera folks who are exposed to your nonsense?

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Damn son

 

[Metallix87]

PS4's install base is getting near 80 million. Having a game on PS4 means easy porting to XB1 and PC. This will be the priority for the majority of developers as its their largest base and in many cases has already brought good results.

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Nice excuse. Sure helped the Wii out!

 

[Vire]

Damn son

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He's right though, I don't think I've seen a dumber viewpoint on this website since it's inception.

 

[Adamska]

I hope I'm not coming off as a "thread whiner" type but, what?! How can you dedicate so many words to a post whilst ignoring completely the reality of game development? If the Dark Souls port was delayed, it was delayed to make it the best product it can be. If Capcom is charging a certain amount of money for a port, it's because that's the value they see in the product and also the price it must charge to get a return in their investment. If Dragon Ball FighterZ hasn't been ported yet it's because Namco isn't ready to announce the port. Nothing is being held hostage, nothing is being intentionally delayed.

Nice excuse. Sure helped the Wii out!

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Are you really comparing the PS4 to a Wii?

 

[cardboardboxer]

I will never understand how portability is worth all the other negatives. Just switch platforms if you want to play the games ASAP.

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For me its a simple formula:

game I can play in the same room as my wife while she watches Netflix > game where I need to have the tv to myself

So I will wait for games- I waited almost a year for the Switch version of Xenoverse 2, I waited to buy Fractured But Whole just in case it came to the Switch (that paid off), and now I am waiting for Wolfenstein 2.

 

[Deleted member 4869]

Wut

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I mean, if you willingly buy a console that's is massively underpowered compared to the rest, you know full well you are going to miss on several multiplatform games, abs if you get them, the ports will be either downgraded or delayed.

That's what I meant.

 

[Clix]

I will never understand how portability is worth all the other negatives. Just switch platforms if you want to play the games ASAP.

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Because outside of the delay, there are no other negatives. The remaster looks and runs great. All of them do. 30fps vs 60fps, really, and both are stable as can be so it doesn't really matter since the original was 30 fps. At least in theory it was. You negatives as if it's an actual thing. If the direct gameplay impressions are to go by, there are no negatives unless you're one of those 60fps or nothing at all people