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The Last Samurai is my favourite movie ever

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Khanimus

Khanimus

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Oct 25, 2017
40,576
Greater Vancouver
I mean it is very well put-together. Some great performances, great music, cool fights. absolutely beautiful production design..

It's still eye-rolling with the whole "white guy becomes one with increasingly marginalized culture," having Tom Cruise hook up with the widow of the man he killed, and yeah, historically-speaking, this movie is a mess in a whole fucking ton of ways.

But the movie is still pretty damn alright. I mean.. that fucking ninja scene is fantastic. I loved it when I was younger, and grew to see the problems with it. But I think purely from a film-making point of view, it's entertaining. Just... it's got some problems. There is nuance there, but still stuff that makes me side-eye parts of it.

RIP Bob
 
Tuorom

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
11,014
Yea I really enjoy it. I also liked it because they didn't overdo the romance.

The soundtrack is fantastic.

 
iareharSon

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,989
super-famicom said:
It doesn't hold a candle to The Twilight Samurai. I liked it way better than Japanese Dances With Wolves.
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Well, that's not fair. The Twilight Samurai is legitimately one of the best films of all time. Hiroyuki Sanada is a boss. Yoji Yamada's samurai films are some of the best. He's a bright spot in a film industry that unfortunately regressed in a big way.
 
Feep

Feep

Lead Designer, Iridium Studios
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Oct 25, 2017
4,639
harSon said:
The problem with the movie isn't that it's a white savior film. It's the fact that it's another example of Hollywood not being able to tell a story about a non-white culture without the story being told by a white person's point of view.
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This is absolutely true, and the biggest issue, but the issue only exists within the context of Hollywood as a larger mechanism. The movie has Tom Cruise front and center, making the movie more palatable to Americans, and no film should need that. What all-Asian casts in Hollywood before Crazy Rich Asians even existed, let alone did well? It's a shitty situation, and still is.

At the same time, the intrinsic story of the movie I feel is not problematic, and can be enjoyed without guilt. You can fight for more cultural and racial representation in Hollywood but still appreciate the film about a broken soldier seeking absolution. It's a good movie.
 
iareharSon

iareharSon

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Oct 30, 2017
8,989
Whompa said:
...by people who misunderstood the movie.
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The movie is still problematic as shit. It's not a White Savior movie in the truest sense of the term, but it's got plenty of other shit wrong with it. It's a Mighty Whitey feature, with Tom Cruise's character growing to rival people at their own game who've lived their entire lives in this form of combat. Dude kills a a guy and then takes his wife and fathers his children. As I said before, it's part of a laundry list of films where Hollywood can't tell a story about a non white culture from the POV of a character who isn't white. Never mind the fact that Japan has a well documented history and a plethora of engaging historical storties to pull from.
 
iareharSon

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,989
Feep said:
This is absolutely true, and the biggest issue, but the issue only exists within the context of Hollywood as a larger mechanism. The movie has Tom Cruise front and center, making the movie more palatable to Americans, and no film should need that. What all-Asian casts in Hollywood before Crazy Rich Asians even existed, let alone did well? It's a shitty situation, and still is.

At the same time, the intrinsic story of the movie I feel is not problematic, and can be enjoyed without guilt. You can fight for more cultural and racial representation in Hollywood but still appreciate the film about a broken soldier seeking absolution. It's a good movie.
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Honestly the only movie that's done it is Apocalypto. Granted the movie is a historical nightmare, but it still amazes me that Mel Gibson of all people created a movie about the Mayan empire with a bunch of no name Native American actors in Yucatec Mayan? A movie about about a non-white culture from the point of view of non-white characters that's not in English? Fucking insane, and it hasn't been done since.

I mean he slipped in the end, but still...
 
Speevy

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,456
The film tells a good story, one that is true to ideas that we can relate to.
 
BocoDragon

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
Feep said:
This is absolutely true, and the biggest issue, but the issue only exists within the context of Hollywood as a larger mechanism. The movie has Tom Cruise front and center, making the movie more palatable to Americans, and no film should need that. What all-Asian casts in Hollywood before Crazy Rich Asians even existed, let alone did well? It's a shitty situation, and still is.

At the same time, the intrinsic story of the movie I feel is not problematic, and can be enjoyed without guilt. You can fight for more cultural and racial representation in Hollywood but still appreciate the film about a broken soldier seeking absolution. It's a good movie.
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A movie like this definitely shouldn't need a white guy character. There's probably nothing wrong with an American movie featuring an American character (or Western character?) as the audience surrogate though. You need someone to ask questions and explain the customs on behalf of the audience, etc.
 
skeezx

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,429
half joking but i can't take the movie seriously because of cruise's hair. why would a wayward american in 19th century japan look like he just stepped out of a salon
 
jett

jett

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,713
TLS is great entertainment.

And there's no white savior shit in there, at least watch the movies you comment on, people.
 
Khanimus

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,576
Greater Vancouver
BocoDragon said:
A movie like this definitely shouldn't need a white guy character. There's probably nothing wrong with an American movie featuring an American character (or Western character?) as the audience surrogate though. You need someone to ask questions and explain the customs on behalf of the audience, etc.
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I mean, sure. Audience surrogates can be extremely helpful in a cross-cultural story like this. But also, did you need to open with Katsumoto having a prophetic vision of a "white tiger", only for him to realize it's Tom Cruise? Shit like that doesn't quite help as it makes Cruise's character some 'destiny figure' or whatever.
 
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cognizant

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
MisterHero said:
I wish to kill a man and win his wife by apologizing to her in her language
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But you have to mean it though.

kvetcha said:
Hiroyuki Saneda is amazing. Have you seen Twilight Samurai?
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Yes! I liked it, but not as much as TLS though. Twilight obviously makes better use of Saneda's talents. Another actor that's been largely wasted in Hollywood. Acting gigs probably paid better than in Japan though!

Last year I watched Ken Watanabe in that Japanese Unforgiven remake, it was pretty decent.
 
Soj

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,782
There's just something about Tom Cruise screaming that I find hilarious.

The hardest I ever laughed in my life was watching the sake scene for the first time.
 
jp319

jp319

Member
Oct 27, 2017
577
It has a couple of corny things like the video game-style ninja fight and Tom getting the girl in the end but it's beautiful and respectful to Samurai culture (as far as I can tell) and it has the absolutely magnetic performances by Ken Watanabe and Hiroyuke Sanada. Definitely not a "white savior" film but it is a Tom Cruise film so of course he is front and center.
 

Deleted member 6949

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'll never forget seeing the trailer for The Last Samurai in a packed theater. The trailer was super dramatic, and everyone was dead quiet throughout, but right at the end the title card pops up and says something like Tom Cruise - The Last Samurai and it's his face in like slow motion or something, and the entire theater erupted in laughter.
 
Dice

Dice

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Oct 25, 2017
22,918
Canada
harSon said:
The problem with the movie isn't that it's a white savior film. It's the fact that it's another example of Hollywood not being able to tell a story about a non-white culture without the story being told by a white person's point of view.
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I feel ya, but especially for when this flick was released I do think he was a big selling point and part of its pretty massive success. It's a great film, and if having a white dude to sell it is wrong then I don't wanna be right ..... well, I mean, it'd be great if it didn't need it, but releasing a Hollywood film (even if set IN Japan) sorta comes with these strings attached in some ways. It's not the best attitude, but it IS a Hollywood flick so it will have that lens on it to help otherwise anxious audiences who (sadly) don't care for movies with subtitles.

Plus it probably helped Ken Watanabe become a name overseas too.
 
Herne

Herne

Member
Dec 10, 2017
5,365
cognizant said:
Billy Connolly is for some reason in this movie.

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Because he's an awesome goddamn actor, is why. Have some respect.
 
TrailerParkRanger

TrailerParkRanger

Banned
Dec 24, 2017
2,399
Fuck this movie and it's James Clavell bullshit.

"But it exposed Ken Wantanabe..."

Fuck that shit too. That's the trade off, scraps from the table for perpetuating this movie's shit?

You can like it, that's fine. I don't think you're bad for enjoying a piece of entertainment.

But fuck this movie.
 
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cognizant

cognizant

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Dec 19, 2017
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Loxley

Loxley

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Oct 25, 2017
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The Last Samurai absolutely does not deserve to be categorized under the "white savior" trope, Cruise's character doesn't end up saving shit. All of the samurai are wiped out in the end and in the final scene, Cruise is back to wearing his US military uniform, signifying that that Katsumoto and his brethren were the last samurai.

The film isn't without its flaws or cliches obviously. Cruise becoming a brilliant swordsman seemingly so quickly was pure Hollywood as was the ninja attack, and Cruise actually wearing samurai armor in the final battle was a tad cringey. But overall it's a very well-directed and well-acted film. It's definitely one of Cruise's best performances and Watanabe steals the show.

Also, the movie was worth it just for this shot alone:

UnswPb9.gif
 
FlashbladeERA

FlashbladeERA

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
harSon said:
The movie is still problematic as shit. It's not a White Savior movie in the truest sense of the term, but it's got plenty of other shit wrong with it. It's a Mighty Whitey feature, with Tom Cruise's character growing to rival people at their own game who've lived their entire lives in this form of combat. Dude kills a a guy and then takes his wife and fathers his children. As I said before, it's part of a laundry list of films where Hollywood can't tell a story about a non white culture from the POV of a character who isn't white. Never mind the fact that Japan has a well documented history and a plethora of engaging historical storties to pull from.
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I hear what you're saying but to play devil's advocate just a bit it isnt like Tom's character is a civilian. He's a tortured war "hero". He's got the fighting instincts to at least learn and adapt, especially after getting off the booze. He only tied once with Sanada on screen, every dog has it's day. Doesnt mean Sanada would get his ass kicked from here on out.

And the wife situation is... different...nothing is ever black and white. They got to know each other over a long time and she learned he wasn't a bad person and was willing to risk his life for them.

They shared a guilty kiss but when all is said and done they could have decided to just be friend's at the end.

:/
 
Hubologist

Hubologist

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,119
Thought it was a great fuckin' movie. Give zero fucks about accuracy. Probably my favorite Cruise Missile flick.
 
KillLaCam

KillLaCam

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Oct 25, 2017
15,406
Seoul
Yeah that was a great movie. Need to rewatch it. I wish we could get western movies with this type of pacing and stuff again.

A lot of the complaints of the movie are from people who have never seen it. This definitely isn't a "white guy saves the day" movie. Of course, its gonna have some "issues" automatically by making a white guy the main character in this setting. But you can't lump it in with the white savior movies. I'm usually the 1st person to complain about something like that but this isn't really one.
 
MrBS

MrBS

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Oct 27, 2017
6,298
I was a fan of the bromance of the film and I could do with a rewatch, I wonder how forgiving I'd be of the tropes now.

Even back then as much as I loved the movie I wish the movie ended ten minutes earlier, that epilogue was not the best. I'd be curious if any of that was reshoots to overexplain and give closure at the end, I never felt it needed it.
 
Speevy

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,456
The first decade of this century was so much better for film than this decade (so far).
 
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