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WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,762
Canada
That the voices of "women of colour" are getting louder and more influential is a testament less to the accommodations made by the dominant white culture and more to their own grit in a society that implicitly – and sometimes explicitly – wants them to fail.

At the Sydney writers' festival on Sunday, editor of Djed Press, Hella Ibrahim, relayed the final minutes of a panel on diversity featuring writers from the western Sydney Sweatshop collective. One of the panellists, Winnie Dunn, in answering a question about the harm caused by good intentions, had used the words "white people" and "shit" in the same sentence. This raised the ire of a self-identified white woman in the audience who interrogated the panellists as to "what they think they have to gain" by insulting people who "want to read their stories."

In other words, the woman saw a personal attack where there wasn't one and decided to remind the panellists that as a member of the white majority she ultimately has their fate in her hands.

"I walked out of that panel frustrated," Ibrahim wrote. "Because yet again, a good convo was derailed, white people centred themselves, and a POC panel was told to police it's [sic] tone to make their message palatable to a white audience."

Trauma assails brown and black women from all directions. There is the initial pain of being subjected to gendered racism and discrimination, there is the additional distress of not being believed or supported, and of having your words and your braveryseemingly credited to others.

And then there is a type of trauma inflicted on women of colour that many of us find among the hardest to disclose, the one that few seem willing to admit really happens because it is so thoroughly normalised most people refuse to see it.

It is what that writers' festival audience member was demonstrating, and what blogger and author Luvvie Ajayi called the "weary weaponising of white women's tears".

To put it less poetically, it is the trauma caused by the tactic many white women employ to muster sympathy and avoid accountability, by turning the tables and accusing their accuser.

Almost every BW (black woman) I know has a story about a time in a professional setting in which she attempted to have a talk with a WW about her behavior & it has ended with the WW (white woman) crying," one black woman wrote on Twitter. "The WW wasn't crying because she felt sorry and was deeply remorseful. The WW was crying because she felt "bullied" and/or that the BW was being too harsh with her."

When I shared these tweets on my Facebook page asking brown and black women if this had ever happened to them, I was taken by how deeply this resonated, prompting one Arab woman to share this story:

A WW kept touching my hair. Pulling my curls to watch them bounce back. Rubbing the top. Smelling it. So when I told her to stop and complained to HR and my supervisor, she complained that I wasn't a people person or team member and I had to leave that position for being 'threatening' to a coworker."

For the doubters, here is a mild version of this sleight-of-hand in action:



More in the article

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...n-use-strategic-tears-to-avoid-accountability
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,118
Austria
Any idea where I can find the actual quote?
I know this is an article about more than that one instance, but it feels weird to not know.

(still reading, btw)
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
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I feel like this really holds to a good amount of white people in general. I can't count the number of times people have gotten bitterly offended at the TERM "white people". It's obnoxious, and the make believe victimization is just so laughable. They're the game group who derides "PC" culture, but at the same time wants you to keep things nice and clean if you reference "their culture".
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,468
Clemson, SC
I feel like this really holds to a good amount of white people in general. I can't count the number of times people have gotten bitterly offended at the TERM "white people". It's obnoxious, and the make believe victimization is just so laughable. They're the game group who derides "PC" culture, but at the same time wants you to keep things nice and clean if you reference "their culture".

People get upset when I say this...and I'm white, lol.
 

Viewt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,821
Chicago, IL
Many white people cannot even confront the idea of whiteness because they're not willing (or able) to reckon with the reality that they're a participant in the system.
 

8byte

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People get upset when I say this...and I'm white, lol.

I'm half hispanic (dad is from South America) but I'd have to TELL people that, I look as white as they come...and people get upset like I'm a traitor. I've even had times where I've offended someone saying "white people" and in the same discussion they've said "well the blacks have BLM, and they're just as bad!"

THE BLACKS. From the mouth of a person who was offended by "White people". I MEAN COME ON.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,118
Austria
Was literally about to say the same thing. I use it whenever necessary, because sometimes people do things so painfully white that I'm embarrassed by it.
Could you give examples?
I don't have a problem with general statements made about white people in western society, but this rubs me the wrong way.
What is "painfully white"?
 

Deleted member 19218

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Oct 27, 2017
4,323
I feel like this really holds to a good amount of white people in general. I can't count the number of times people have gotten bitterly offended at the TERM "white people". It's obnoxious, and the make believe victimization is just so laughable. They're the game group who derides "PC" culture, but at the same time wants you to keep things nice and clean if you reference "their culture".

I think it's less about the phrase and more about the context. If I say my "I live with white people" I can't imagine anyone being offended by that, or at least I would hope no one gets offended by that because "white people" itself is not derogatory, it's just a statement of fact. As you and I know, by itself it has no negative racial connotation.

Could you give examples?
I don't have a problem with general statements made about white people in western society, but this rubs me the wrong way.
What is "painfully white"?

I imagine the poster is referring to white privilege like when a white person says "All lives matter" after another poor soul is murdered by the police. Look in the "____ while black OT" topic for a good example.
 

admiraltaftbar

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Dec 9, 2017
1,889
I'm half hispanic (dad is from South America) but I'd have to TELL people that, I look as white as they come...and people get upset like I'm a traitor. I've even had times where I've offended someone saying "white people" and in the same discussion they've said "well the blacks have BLM, and they're just as bad!"

THE BLACKS. From the mouth of a person who was offended by "White people". I MEAN COME ON.

Well white people are just so diverse it's weird to label them as a single group. (/s but sadly that's something people actually believe...)
 
Dec 12, 2017
9,686
I'm half hispanic (dad is from South America) but I'd have to TELL people that, I look as white as they come...and people get upset like I'm a traitor. I've even had times where I've offended someone saying "white people" and in the same discussion they've said "well the blacks have BLM, and they're just as bad!"

THE BLACKS. From the mouth of a person who was offended by "White people". I MEAN COME ON.

Cognitive dissonance and lack of self awareness is pervasive in situations like the one you described.
 

8byte

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I think it's less about the phrase and more about the context. If I say my "I live with white people" I can't imagine anyone being offended by that, or at least I would hope no one gets offended by that because "white people" itself is not derogatory, it's just a statement of fact. As you and I know, by itself it has no racial connotation.

Probably, but I've also never said things like "white people are racist". Usually it's just something that should be widely accepted, like "white people enjoy certain privileges, particularly societal interactions, that people of color don't."...and then someone chimes in with something about how hard their life was and how they don't have any special privilege or something like that.

It just irks me that it can be so offensive, but a lot of those very same people don't bat an eye at an unarmed POC being shot down in broad daylight on camera.
 

Deleted member 4346

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White women DO use strategic tears, and time and time again people rush to their defense regardless of their own culpability... I'll also note that the majority of white women voted for Donald Trump. White woman are better allies on average than white men, but they are still a really shitty ally to POC.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
I'm kind I interested in what the quote was. Why wouldn't they just say it in the article? Unless it is hidden elsewhere.
 

BocoDragon

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Oct 26, 2017
5,207
Is it surprising that when some people are dragged into a racialized conflict, they start to cry?
 

Deleted member 179

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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Could you give examples?
I don't have a problem with general statements made about white people in western society, but this rubs me the wrong way.
What is "painfully white"?

I think it's less about the phrase and more about the context. If I say my "I live with white people" I can't imagine anyone being offended by that, or at least I would hope no one gets offended by that because "white people" itself is not derogatory, it's just a statement of fact. As you and I know, by itself it has no negative racial connotation.



I imagine the poster is referring to white privilege like when a white person says "All lives matter" after another poor soul is murdered by the police. Look in the "____ while black OT" topic for a good example.

Yeah that pretty much covers it. Or like hearing someone say African American over and over again in an extremely clear attempt to avoid saying black.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
Yeah that pretty much covers it. Or like hearing someone say African American over and over again in an extremely clear attempt to avoid saying black.
Seeing a white person stumbling over saying black is some funny shit. I had an old boss that would stumble regularly on it when the person they were talking to couldn't give a shit.
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,562
That YouTube clip mid way through the article is required viewing. Jully Black (the black woman) is taking about the pope when all of a sudden this white woman responds with a "why are you attacking me" ;_;. People are sympathetic towards white people, pretending to be attacked can derail an entire conversation an she played that card.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,118
Austria
Yeah that pretty much covers it. Or like hearing someone say African American over and over again in an extremely clear attempt to avoid saying black.
Just really feels like I'm getting lumped in with Americans in statements like this.
That's what irks me. Idk. I'd feel weird talking about the properties of any group of people with shared pigmentation this way.

Anyway:
I'm kind I interested in what the quote was. Why wouldn't they just say it in the article? Unless it is hidden elsewhere.
I found a transcript posted by someone (from the panel I think), and it starts with the white woman's question.
It's quite annoying.

The interaction is described in this thread:
 

Deleted member 179

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Just really feels like I'm getting lumped in with Americans in statements like this.
That's what irks me. Idk. I'd feel weird talking about the properties of any group of people with shared pigmentation this way.
I think that's what it is, really. And I apologize. The 'white people' stereotype is really an American white people stereotype, in my opinion. I've just never thought about it until now.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,878
Is it surprising that when some people are dragged into a racialized conflict, they start to cry?
Yeah, kind of, when it's not a conflict with them but they're feeling a perceived slight. Even taking a step back, I've seen this tactic used a lot in inappropriate situations, and the conversation almost always immediately comes to a stop.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,118
Austria
I think that's what it is, really. And I apologize. The 'white people' stereotype is really an American white people stereotype, in my opinion. I've just never thought about it until now.
Much of it really applies to white people anywhere, and I"d never try to say we aren't racist shits towards poc here.
But yes, I feel the American race dynamic is still a bit unique.
 

pizoxuat

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,458
A lot of white women are so caught up in their own cultural traumas that they have become completely self-absorbed and can't feel empathy for the cultural traumas that other people experience. It's frustrating to be represented in part by people like that.
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
A WW kept touching my hair. Pulling my curls to watch them bounce back. Rubbing the top. Smelling it. So when I told her to stop and complained to HR and my supervisor, she complained that I wasn't a people person or team member and I had to leave that position for being 'threatening' to a coworker."

Why do people do this? Seriously, I've never understood why someone would want to touch another person's hair like that.
 
Mar 11, 2018
83
User Banned (Permanent): Trolling, history of similar behaviour, account still in the junior phase.
I'm curious by the language in here. Not once have in read the word "black person" yet I'm hearing "white women" all the time. I'm sorry, but are we not equals? So if anyone is using person of color, then use caucasian please.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,387
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tenor.gif


"I like how I get called a snowflake by these people. You white fuckers melt in the sun, but I'm the snowflake?" - Hari Kondabolu
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,118
Austria
So from the twitter transcript, I'm guessing they said that white people are shit? It's never spelled out, but there is this:
Winnie Dunn: I said white people. She's directing [the question] at me.
So the reason I say that is because we get caught up in this, exactly this. So I say you're shit, you say you're not shit – I don't care. I don't actually care whether you think you're shit or good.
(more transcript around this here)
I wish they'd just confirm the actual line in the article, which makes important points, but trying to not repeat it just seems bad. I feel like it weakens the article.
 
Mar 11, 2018
83
"black women" is used in the article numerous times

I was referring to the comments in this thread. Anyways, obviously the subject is despairing, but i don't like the idea of generalizing an entire sex based on what is given here. Then again, picking apart different races/sex will never solve anything, so that's why
 

Xenon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,266
That YouTube clip mid way through the article is required viewing. Jully Black (the black woman) is taking about the pope when all of a sudden this white woman responds with a "why are you attacking me" ;_;. People are sympathetic towards white people, pretending to be attacked can derail an entire conversation an she played that card.


Nah, Jully was raising her voice, cutting off the other lady, being confrontational, got called on it, and turned it around. That's some verbal Judo there. Was it "attacking her" no, but she was not just talking about the Pope.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,382
This article is overwrought to the point of absurdity and the video doesn't make the point she thinks it does.
 
That video example really exemplifies the point made in the article. The Jully Black lady really just heard an opinion she didn't want to hear and wanted to call the cops and have them charge Jeanne with assault on her eardrums I suppose.
Many white people cannot even confront the idea of whiteness because they're not willing (or able) to reckon with the reality that they're a participant in the system.
That's deep.
 
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Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Literally was about to post the exact same thing. JFC

I'd probably be terrified that they were a psycho killer if they just walked up and smelt my hair.

I've had women want to touch my hair back when let it grow long, but no one ever just did it without permission and no one smelt my hair.

I used to get asked by white people if they could touch my hair when I had a afro all the time. Shit is annoying

Did they ever say why?
 
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