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i thought people saying stuff like that earlier in the thread
if this was already widely known, i guess i just spent 30 minutes searching /pol/ for no good reason. FML
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The controversial ArenaNet firings of Guild Wars 2 writers (READ OP)
- Thread starter hydrophilic attack
- Start date
if this was already widely known, i guess i just spent 30 minutes searching /pol/ for no good reason. FML
Did you not see the key word of "claim" in Spyware's post? Does evidence just not matter to you at all as long as the narrative aligns with your values?
there is a narrative spreading that the alt-right only found out about her comments after the announcement of her being fired, and as such cannot have participated in any harassment against her
according to this narrative, the outrage against her was only building in the guild wars communities on reddit and official forums. the alt-right didn't get involved until after she was fired
this is false
below is a screenshots from /pol/ when they first started discussing the tweet. look at the time stamps. keep in mind that the time stamps are for my time zone which is 6 hours ahead of EST
the alt-right was aware of this controversy already on july 4, US time, over 18 hours before she was fired. as such, i have no doubt that they helped stoke the fires in the guild war communities and contributed to the campaigns demanding her being fired
/pol/ was aware of her comments, so of course she was being harassed. stop spreading false narratives
As MUCH as I honestly think there WAS at least a modicum of influence from the hate mob in ArenaNet's decision to fire Price (I will be VERY surprised if that's not the case), as other users have pointed out, this proves nothing. This does nothing to add decisive proof people need to arrive at the conclusion that the hate mob was a major factor in Price's termination.
All this does is point out the fact that the hate mob exists and is active. We all knew that already, or at least I'd like to believe nobody would be able to claim to be unaware of them at this point. Like I said, I believe there has been at least some influence from this mob in this decision, but I will NOT claim that as fact until I have proof of this as a fact, and I believe nobody should do so either.
Please, do not accuse others of spreading false narratives when what you're doing could be easily construed as the very same. Please, do think through before pointing fingers and accusing others, otherwise you'll be finding your argument weakened and losing validity. Anyone claiming that ArenaNet made their decision with NO influence whatsoever of this mob is also going to have a hard time making their opinion check out as fact, since nobody has hard evidence on the matter. It might be the case we may never actually acquire solid evidence proving either case, and as unfortunate as that might be, we need to learn to accept that as a possibility as well before going out brandishing our opinions as solid facts.
Except for that it's not that simple. She's not an entry-level cook at a fast food restaurant. She's an industry veteran for 12 years, and ArenaNet had never had a discussion with her engaging the community. Clearly she screwed up in lashing out at the guy, but there's levels of employment other than "fired" and "not fired".
Arenanet's decision to make this as public as they did, as rapidly as they did, and with verbiage about how this is all about the playerbase and community, makes it extremely clear this was to appease backlash. And we already know at least some part of the backlash was due to the hate mob. It's not that Arenanet explicitly responded in a way to engage with the hate mob, but their decision was clearly due to the backlash, which we already know was amplified by said hate mob.
I wonder how the climate is around ArenaNet. From my experience, when someone is fired in such a big way, employees loose their trust in the company, I bet a lot of people in there are looking for a new job, wanting to get out ASAP! I don't agree about the firing of Jessica, but I can understand the reason. Now, firing someone for trying to defend a colleague, that creates a very bad precedent inside the company. ArenaNet is pretty much telling their employees to not help each other, I don't see how this can be good.
You're making a lot of assumptions to fit your narrative. You don't "know" any of these things.
You keep using words like "clearly", but that just isn't the case. You choose to see their decision as a response to the backlash when it could be just as easily described as them wanting to protect their relationship with their community that they value so they chose to terminate an employee that threatened that. Either situation could be what truly happened, but you keep saying what you believe the events that transpired are obvious when that just isn't true.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17565218/arenanet-guild-wars-firing-games-social-media-harassment
Just a small sample of the article:
Maybe I'm missing context, as I read all tweets involved, and I am failing to see why the fans posts are being labeled as patronizing or rude?
I don't understand how you could be more polite when offering thoughts on something. He thanked her, thought it was an interesting thread? I mean what? Is this just false pretenses? Are we reading into everything that far where every tweet actually has double meaning.
She was incredibly rude with him for no reason at all. It's like posting things on here and saying "Dont @ me". I mean, why post on a public place if you are looking for a response? If you don't like what he has to say or his thoughts, simply ignore it. I understand that everyone has bad days, me included and I can have a tendency to snap when things are going extra poorly that day, so that is understandable and she absolutely should not be fired for something like this. BUT! To paint her as some innocent angel, I don't get it - what she said wasn't right at all.
I don't understand how you could be more polite when offering thoughts on something. He thanked her, thought it was an interesting thread? I mean what? Is this just false pretenses? Are we reading into everything that far where every tweet actually has double meaning.
She was incredibly rude with him for no reason at all. It's like posting things on here and saying "Dont @ me". I mean, why post on a public place if you are looking for a response? If you don't like what he has to say or his thoughts, simply ignore it. I understand that everyone has bad days, me included and I can have a tendency to snap when things are going extra poorly that day, so that is understandable and she absolutely should not be fired for something like this. BUT! To paint her as some innocent angel, I don't get it - what she said wasn't right at all.
Call out these erroneous assumptions instead of saying "lolno".
I keep using the word "clearly" because it was clear that there was backlash to Price's comments on twitter. Are you trying to say there was no fan backlash to Price's comments?
She clearly didnt screw up in her point of view, she still doubles and triples down on it. Not seeing any fault in her actions.
There was a backlash, but you are saying that Arena Net "clearly" reacted to it and their decision to fire her was "clearly" because of it. You don't know either of those things for sure, so they aren't clear.
They need an enemy and a justifiable defense narrative, because they know Price was at fault and defending her response is a lot harder when the guy is some Jessica Price fanboy who fawned over her every word.
https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMistyStingrayDxCat
???
You're claiming ArenaNet's decision was not due to the backlash? You're kidding, right?
That is not relevant to what the poster is saying. Arenanet made the choice to terminate her without any effort to discuss it with her. If they had decided to have a frank discussion with Price, and failed to come to an agreement resulting in both parties parting ways - we'd not be having this discussion. Instead - they chose to rapidly terminate anyone involved, including someone who literally did nothing wrong outside of trying to support a co-worker who was being bombarded by hate online. How anyone can look at this situation and see the method of their termination was due to anything but sudden and intense pressure is fooling themselves.
Arenanet handled this in the most unprofessional way possible.
No, I'm not kididng. ArenaNet's decision was due to an employee being unnecessarily hostile to a member of the community. Price was fired because of her actions, not the influence of an outside hate group. To claim anything beyond that is making an assumption which isn't "clear".
Sure, protect their relationship to a community that was angry at Price. The mistake is for people to think that this was only GG outrage.
The fact is that the "normal" GW2 community - possibly the friendliest MMO community I've ever experienced - was pretty united at their outrage against Price. And for good reason: her comments were outrageous. So while there were harrassers going around trying to get Price fired, they are somewhat of a redundant force here, because the normal players - while not necessarily calling for her firing - were pretty clear that ArenaNet needed to send some message.
So I agree with Eatin' Olives that this was in response to the backlash, but specifically the (justified) backlash being expressed by the diehard GW2 community, not fringe GGers hopping on the bandwagon just to get Price fired. That GGers were ALSO doing that is true, but I don't have much reason to believe that their efforts alone caused Anet's response or that they were the deciding factor.
Seen from this lens, firing Price due to the backlash (of the community) is not inherently a bad thing and could be seen as a company empathizing with their fanbase. It's simply holding employees accountable for bad behavior towards fans.
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No, he's not making that claim, because he doesn't have the evidence. you shouldn't make the claim they got fired due to a so-called 'internet mob,' because you don't have the evidence. What we do have the official statement from the company. Okay?
And the backlash was due to her lashing out at the guy's tweets. All we know is that she made a mistake and got fired, how much any "backlash" had to do with it is speculation.
You're not reading what I'm saying. I'm not saying they actively appeased the hate group, I'm saying they reacted to the backlash. The hate group's role in that backlash was in amplifying it. You can disagree with that last sentence (and I think you'd be wrong for various reasons), but to disagree that that ArenaNet did not conduct the firing from the backlash whatsoever is a much, much, much bigger leap in logic than claiming that it was due to the backlash.
I'm trying to establish a baseline here, she was clearly fired from backlash. We now have to do that because there seem to be some people actively trying to gaslight the conversation for reasons beyond my understanding.
We can then move on to how much of that backlash was due to the hate mob. But before I'm engaging with any person in this thread they have to admit the basic fact that the firing was in response due to the backlash (even if ArenaNet internally disliked the response, and it would be obvious to see that they didn't like Price's response).
See above.
In fact their statement why they were fired doesn't even mention being influenced by community backlash but due to their own culture of being opened and involved with fans of the game.
You could say that they were fired because ANet thought it would discourage further conversations with the players.
It's pitiful that there are people that are attacking women and trying to get them fired due to being a woman. Yes there was community backlash that was further fired up by GGers and hate groups. But it is entirely possible they had no effect on ArenaNets decision to fire Price and Fries.
Backlash is just another word for reaction. Do you believe the community's initial reaction to Price's tweets was unwarranted?
These posters pretty much summed it up. There was a backlash, but to say it was clearly the driving force behind the firing is an assumption. Just looking a Price's behavior on Twitter before and after this incident it's pretty clear how toxic of a person she is. I think I saw one poster mention that she had insulted a coworkers husband on Twitter.
I think the fact that they were so publicly fired is strong evidence that it was in response to backlash.
Or it was ArenaNet showing that they value the relationship that they've cultivated with their playerbase.
I don't know why this is so difficult for people to understand, but here we are.
I'm not responding to anyone in this thread who thinks the backlash had no effect on her firing. That's some grade-A gaslighting.
Because Arenanet understood the relationship had deterioriated as evidenced by the backlash.
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a relationship they felt was being damaged....because....of....a....backlash?
Not necessarily. The incident was being discussed on their forums, and they posted a statement to their forums. They didn't put out a press release or contact news outlets to fire her. The venue doesn't seem unreasonable given the nature of what occurred. If she had been fired for something that happened outside the public eye, then a statement on their forums wouldn't have made sense. But a social media incident which was being discussed at length in the community is another story. I wouldn't say this is strong evidence of anything in particular. It wouldn't have made sense to just privately fire her with no statement, and then let her solely control the narrative while they stayed totally silent.
That's convenient. Just don't talk to anyone that disagrees with you. Why even enter this discussion?
A relationship that was damaged because an employee lashed out a fan and inferred that they only "pretend to like them"? By all means, though, keep disregarding what Price did to fuel your narrative.
Because I'm only interested in people who are interested in admitting basic facts. Otherwise they're simply arguing in bad faith.
If you can't see the basic fact that ArenaNet responded to backlash then we're done. It's as simple as that.
Exactly. Starting from the beginning:
-"Backlash" is the group of people who disliked Price's comments and reached out to ArenaNet (not necessarily to get her fired, just to call out the toxic tweets).
-Not all of them were GGers.
-ArenaNet was responding to the backlash when they fired Price.
Those are just the facts of what happened, At this point in the above list I haven't even started my argument. If people can't agree on that then yeesh lmao
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i think there's a bit of a disconnect here. Saying this was done at least in part because of the community backlash isn't absolving Price of anything, because it's entirely possible to hold that the backlash was justified (as I do). The backlash from the community of course, not GG hop-ons.
Not arguing in bad faith...? So good faith?
The only facts we have to go by are the Twitter conversation and the statement from ArenaNet. The argument you are clinging to isn't a fact. You have no evidence of the hate mob "clearly" influencing the firing. If facts are so important to you, then I suggest you stop ignoring them to support your narrative.
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right, so she made a comment which was disliked by fans
one could, in fact, even say that her comments led to a backklash
Another clip from it:
Seems like there's a lot of different opinions internally, which is to be expected. People will react different to a situation like this.
After looking through her history on Twitter, her recent behavior doesn't surprise me in the least.
She had this to say about TotalBiscuit's, shortly after his passing.
I may not have always agreed with TotalBiscuit, but I would never even think about posting something so insensitive on social media, especially at a moment when others, including his wife are grieving.
I have zero sympathy for her regarding her firing.
I have said there was a backlash. You aren't reading what I'm saying. The backlash was not the "clear" driving force behind her termination. Her behavior was the "clear" driving force, because it is what we have tangible evidence on. Anything else is an assumption that isn't based in fact.
Yeah I think it's possible people right now are running on two definitions of "backlash"
There was the tamer backlash by the GW2 community, and then the wider backlash which included GG and others outside the GW2 community.
That the GW2 community found and reacted to that tweet almost undoubtedly helped sway the decision to fire her. How much the wider backlash caused it is more debatable.
There was the tamer backlash by the GW2 community, and then the wider backlash which included GG and others outside the GW2 community.
That the GW2 community found and reacted to that tweet almost undoubtedly helped sway the decision to fire her. How much the wider backlash caused it is more debatable.
Yes I would call it a response to the "backlash", but one related to the GW2 community specifically. Not the hate mobs that are now using it to threaten and harass others.
Two employees said stuff that angered the GW2 community (yes, there were a lot of angry voices against the tweets made by Fries too, the ones I posted here)
There was a reaction in the community, a backlash, since the community had a problem with what they said and considered it an attack.
If the community had not felt attacked, thus creating no backlash, there wouldn't have been any problems at all. But the tweets were an attack against the community so off they go... basically.
Two employees said stuff that angered the GW2 community (yes, there were a lot of angry voices against the tweets made by Fries too, the ones I posted here)
There was a reaction in the community, a backlash, since the community had a problem with what they said and considered it an attack.
If the community had not felt attacked, thus creating no backlash, there wouldn't have been any problems at all. But the tweets were an attack against the community so off they go... basically.
I do think people are getting defensive is because others alluded it was the backlash from hate groups that got her fired, and not the backlash from the community as a whole. It is possible that the firing was a response to backlash, but from the people who felt her comments were rude, not because she's a female or a "SJW" as some GGers would like to think.
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sorry i misread, my bad
i still maintain that the backlash was what got her fired, though you are technically correct that we cannot know beyond a shadow of a doubt whether this was the case or not
The backlash is not what prompted the firing. The backlash is what prompted the ridiculous response from ArenaNet. Price's behavior is what got her fired, not the backlash.
For what it's worth, I believe ArenaNet when they say that Price and Fries were fired due to their own actions in lashing out at the community, but I have no illusions about the fact that the backlash from the GW2 community ultimately helped lead to that decision.
TB responses don't have anything to do with this (going a bit off topic), but what that does show is for everyone now scared you somehow can't speak openly at ANet, it's quite clear you can. EA or Bioware fired someone for saying something about TB. I think it was more dancing on the grave than this remark though.
Her own Twitter history is evidence that you can be very open/bombastic/crude and throw some shade around politics, people, others in the industry and so on and work with ANet.
What went wrong here was incorrectly targetting a member of the community and blasting them in public without de-escalating, backing down or apologizing. If you bite the hand that feeds you then your employer might not be as lenient to you publicly dressing someone down. Especially when the target wasn't what you tried to portray them as.
Thank you.
We can assume that the backlash led to her firing, no problem, but to present this as solid fact is simply false. That is what I've been saying. It's not "clear" that anything happened beyond what tangible proof we have.
Well said.
Also I'm sure this has been posted before, but this was kind of amusing as well: