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ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,705
It wasn't dead except for the part where Metroid Other M was a poorly review bomb that quickly retailed for like $5 and nobody wanted anything to do with it until a shitty spinoff came along that nobody liked, followed by an actual revival of the series with Samus Returns and Metroid Prime 4's announcement, well into Ultimate's development and Ridley's inclusion into the game.
It doesn't matter, other m was still a somewhat recent gane and a new game was just announced. You can color it how you want, but facts are facts. Ridley is samus's arch nemesis in almost every metroid game and the second moat important character. Geno is an optional side character from a 20 year old third party spinoff.

I can't say for sure if he will get in or not, but don't blame ridley if he doesn't. Just saying.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,581
I really don't understand the hate that Miis got in Smash 4, was it really because they represented the Wii Era? Wii Fit Trainer is even worse in that regard and she never got the amount of hate Miis did.
Personally I just always disliked them in concept because visually they are to me what K.Rool is to others here, throw in three movesets worth of resources applied to them including the most generic of swordfighters in a game full of them and wooo boy, I was not a fan.
Them being ambassadors of the Wii era doesn't bother me at all, but I was over the novelty half way through the wii's lifespan.

In execution though I enjoy Gunner and Brawler, mii costumes let me hide their faces and I don't have to be faced with "hilarious" Hitler or penis face miis online so they averted complete disaster.
I dig them being the multi man melee team, just a shame that I don't have many variations to actually drop in.
 

Strat

"This guy are sick"
Member
Apr 8, 2018
13,424
Geno is such a long standing and consistently asked for character that it almost seems like he NEEDS to be in the Ultimate Smash. When you think of those characters whose legacy in Smash basically amounts to them being on want lists for nearly two decades, Geno is high on that list. I remember discussion around Melee way waaaay back and people talking about wanting Geno.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Yeah, but he never talked about it being done for "sales" or anything like that. Like I said, he says he adds third party reps he feels are "worthy" to be in (which Geno may or may not be to him).

And we do have sales data and Brawl/4 sold mostly the same (13M), with Melee selling 8M with a way smaller install base. I really don't think the number of people without a Nintendo system and that would get one just to play as one character is as big as people think, third party reps for sure help with some stuff (media coverage, DLC sales, etc), but I don't think it's the main logic behind their inclusions.
Sure, I am just saying that generally crossover content is included in games to increase sales. Like you, admittedly, say -- media coverage, DLC sales, etc. all help. 3 of the third party characters were DLC. There's a reason for that. It was by design.

Wii U sales being level with Brawl probably says more about the Wii U than anything. I suspect Ultimate's sales on Switch will be much higher.

It wasn't dead except for the part where Metroid Other M was a poorly review bomb that quickly retailed for like $5 and nobody wanted anything to do with it until a shitty spinoff came along that nobody liked, followed by an actual revival of the series with Samus Returns and Metroid Prime 4's announcement, well into Ultimate's development and Ridley's inclusion into the game.
A game no one liked and bombed, still is the franchise being alive. There were constantly new games planned in the Metroid franchise. It's a big difference and you're being ridiculous.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
Daisy without the float seems like it would instantly make her a worse character than Peach.
Sure, and Lucina without tippers is worse than Marth, but that's the price of easy

For a younger player who doesn't know how to use the float, they'd have a better time playing a character with a third jump instead; they'd have an easier time recovering, and the extra jump itself would help emphasize that Peach and Daisy are meant to be airborne fighters with strong aerials
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,606
I'd hope so, because Dark Pit as a character didn't exist.
Heh

But Dark Pit was in Brawl!

VmUahuE.png
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
It doesn't matter, other m was still a somewhat recent gane and a new game was just announced. You can color it how you want, but facts are facts. Ridley is samus's arch nemesis in almost every metroid game and the second moat important character. Geno is an optional side character from a 20 year old third party spinoff.

I can't say for sure if he will get in or not, but don't blame ridley if he doesn't. Just saying.

Oh for the love of God, I'm not saying that.
 

TMaakkonen

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,756
Just a question.

For those that want Captain Toad, does it have to be Captain Toad specifically? Would you be ok with normal Toad? Yes, normal Toad is pretty much disconfirmed, but would you be ok with normal Toad?
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,672
I'm saying Ridley got in when Metroid had no relevance. It was a dead franchise that nobody at Nintendo wanted anything to do with until years later.

So if Geno were to get in it'd be because of his fanbase, like Ridley. Because like Geno, Ridley had no fucking relevance whatsoever at the time.
The two are honestly not even remotely comparable.

Ridley is the recurring villain of one of Nintendo's most iconic franchises.

Geno is a one-off party member from a Mario RPG spinoff 20 years ago that Nintendo barely acknowledges.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Yeah, I also think this is the biggest argument against him. Smash barely has secondary characters if any (maybe Falco and Dark Pit fit here? They're still pretty relevant in their games tho).
Falco is in every star fox game, and there's been a lot of star fox games.

I think Dark Pit is the only character that's not the main player character/primary protagonist, or a commonly recurring character. But he's also Sakurai's character, timed to be cross promotional for his new Kid Icarus game, took no development time, and was a huge part of the one game he's in.

Maybe Geno should and will get in just for the weirdly large fanbase for him in smash, but it's still very out of place to me.
 

memoryman3

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
Just a question.

For those that want Captain Toad, does it have to be Captain Toad specifically? Would you be ok with normal Toad? Yes, normal Toad is pretty much disconfirmed, but would you be ok with normal Toad?

Feel like Captain Toad is kinda deconfirmed too. Otherwise they wouldn't have updated Toad so much and brought Blue Toad to the battle.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,301
Sure, and Lucina without tippers is worse than Marth, but that's the price of easy

For a younger player who doesn't know how to use the float, they'd have a better time playing a character with a third jump instead; they'd have an easier time recovering, and the extra jump itself would help emphasize that Peach and Daisy are meant to be airborne fighters with strong aerials
Lucina still has somewhat of a niche competitively because the tipper being too much of an x-factor. That's why both ZeRo and Nairo prefer playing Lucina over Marth, even if she's "easier" she still comes with a few unique benefits. Peach without a float isn't easier, it's just straight up worse.
 

Tye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
832
I really don't understand the hate that Miis got in Smash 4, was it really because they represented the Wii Era? Wii Fit Trainer is even worse in that regard and she never got the amount of hate Miis did.
People just hate Miis. It sucks. I assume it might be largely because they're not "real" characters, but I'll never understand the hate either... Miis are great and it's so disappointing to see such a lack of enthusiasm for Mii Fighters in Smash Bros. =/
 

memoryman3

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
Lucina still has somewhat of a niche competitively because the tipper being too much of an x-factor. That's why both ZeRo and Nairo prefer playing Lucina over Marth, even if she's "easier" she still comes with a few unique benefits. Peach without a float isn't easier, it's just straight up worse.

Yep. Was advocating for her not to have a float but now I understand that Peach's options are pretty much built around the float. If ya don't use it, you often lose.

Maybe they could make Daisy's float time shorter and make her a bit faster in the air (and buff her ground game to compensate)
 

cmChimera

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,466
Sure, and Lucina without tippers is worse than Marth, but that's the price of easy
You'll find some disagreement on that point. Zero, undoubtably one of the best players of the game, believes Lucina is better than Marth. And some agree with him. The fact that it's even arguable though seems to defeat your premise.

Peach without her float would just be a bad character.

Edit: Someone beat me to it.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
People just hate Miis. It sucks. I assume it might be largely because they're not "real" characters, but I'll never understand the hate either... Miis are great and it's so disappointing to see such a lack of enthusiasm for Mii Fighters in Smash Bros. =/

Their implementation sucked. All those custom moves and outfits. If there was a single mii character that was well implemented it would have been great.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,672
Miis are ugly and awful, and I'm happy Nintendo is moving away from them.

They were fine as avatars for users but that have no business invading MK and Smash
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,581
The death of metroid was always greatly exaggerated on ye olde era, try and point that out back in the day though and you'd be buried by bitter responses regarding the assassination of Samus Aran by the cowards at Nintendo.
Thankfully we can put that behind us now, even if Nintendo still had to prepare pre-emptive damage control for a NEW 2D METROID by revealing a bordeline animated gif level of content of a game title teaser.
giphy.gif

It was basically this

For me it's mostly their voices in mario kart, so obnoxious. That made me go from neutral to eh.
GO GOOOOOO
 
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IntelliHeath

IntelliHeath

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,320
Lucina still has somewhat of a niche competitively because the tipper being too much of an x-factor. That's why both ZeRo and Nairo prefer playing Lucina over Marth, even if she's "easier" she still comes with a few unique benefits. Peach without a float isn't easier, it's just straight up worse.

Well, what about Daisy being the tipper version of Peach? :P
 

memoryman3

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
Miis are good. They are supposed to be the "Create a Character" of Smash Bros and you can tweak their attributes and moveset. The costumes also added personal flair to the characters.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
That would be better. One actual moveset that is based on the different mii games, instead of a bunch of reskinned clone moves.

With Tons of expensive, useless, piecemeal dlc

While better than brawl gameplay wise, smash 4 truly represents the low point of the series for me in terms of features and design.

Hope ultimate is better.
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
Lucina still has somewhat of a niche competitively because the tipper being too much of an x-factor. That's why both ZeRo and Nairo prefer playing Lucina over Marth, even if she's "easier" she still comes with a few unique benefits. Peach without a float isn't easier, it's just straight up worse.
then play as Peach if you know what you're doing
 

memoryman3

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,146
The Miis were not meant to be the traditional character, and having a moveset based on Mii games is a terrible idea because they are supposed to be anyone you want then to be. Which is why they have 12 different voice options now!
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,606
My only hope is that Mii Gunner is high tier, so if Samus sucks I will have a horrible looking fallback option.
 
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