Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 2 | Challengers Approaching!

[kirby_fox]

After they made such a big deal about Mewtwo in Smash 4 (being the first DLC character, a reward for people who purchased both versions, the subject of a weird tease in the 50 facts video and a clear response to the fan demand for his return) it only made sense for Mewtwo to stay for good.

I think Sakurai is done with mass decloning in Smash by now. He knows that people like playing characters as they are, and Smash Ultimate really didn't feature many moveset revamps for that reason. I think Echoes will stay as echoes, otherwise the numbering thing gets really weird.

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We can change the echo title to something else like an alpha echo. And all alpha echoes are based on the character but are unique now.

So we still have echoes like Daisy but others would be alpha echoes. Or just still call them echoes still because he feels like it and that's why Ken is one and Chrom has a move from Ike.

 

[Deleted member 2669]

Popular characters with different weapons...like who? Hector/azura/ephraim? I've said it before but they can't be included as echoes given their different builds, and including them would open another can of worms (wouldn't the time be better spent on springman/rex/Dixie?).
The idea of BK being an ike echo is funny, i'll give you that, but an armored dude is not going to have the same build/fighting style as ike.

I mean, sure if you prefer celica over chrom, that's perfectly fine and all.
But saying that a requested character who made it in as a low-cost echo is inherently bad is pretty myopic.

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It was a more general point. At any rate, I'll admit I have a hangup over Chrom because there were much better options for Echoes, and one from FE in particular. Perception of Corrin also suffered from Roy's inclusion in For. I just think from this point on, Sakurai should make it a point to make additional FE characters stand out.

 

[Gartooth]

He also emphasized that this wasn't something that could be repeated. While we should definitely enjoy it while it lasts, we should also brace ourselves for cuts in the next Smash game.

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Yeah, I'm over here thinking nothing is undeniably sacred except the original 8. lmao

 

[Grapezard]

Captain N is the third member of Duck Hunt and nothing can change my mind.

 

[Apopheniac]

My bad, I got Ando confused with Tanaka lol. I miss Ando.

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lol

Ando was pretty solid, as were the other Melee composers (Sakai, Ikegami, Kitsuta) - there's a reason Melee's soundtrack still holds up almost 20 years later. I felt like Sakai kinda carries a lot of Brawl's core music team.

My only problem with Pokemon reps in Smash is that by the time they get added, they're pretty much already old news. Incineroar got to be a big deal for all of like, two months before Sword and Shield got revealed and he immediately becomes old hat. It'd be more ok if they always picked Pokemon that would be consistent in having some marketing/game presence like Lucario or Pichu. Especially with starters, now that we're past Gen 7 it may as well be like Incineroar doesn't exist anymore as far as TPC and the games are concerned.

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I kinda agree with this, though Pokémon hasn't really had a lot of new creatures that they keep marketing consistently - people whine about Gen I, but Pikachu, Charizard, and Mewtwo aren't going anywhere, given Gen I's centrality to common perception of Pokémon. It's no coincidence that Detective Pikachu has a majority of the Smash reps in it, and that most/all? of them were in the trailers.

Greninja seems like it can continue to be a thing, but Incineroar is gonna need to rely a lot on the Smash Bump. Maybe they'll canonize the Alolan Whip

 

[ned_ballad]

I think Mimikyu will have enduring popularity, but we missed the chance of a lifetime to have a terrifying, bloodthirsty slasher villain Pokemon. Thanks Sakurai

 

[mopinks]

Mimikyu was the thinking man's Gen 7 Smash Rep

RIP

 

[Apopheniac]

F

 

[Neoxon]

I think Mimikyu wil have enduring popularity, but we missed the chance of a lifetime to have a terrifying, bloodthirsty slasher villain Pokemon. Thanks Sakurai

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You could say the same for Eevee having enduring popularity, but its also stuck in the Assist Trophy Poké Ball Pokémon Shadow Realm.

 

[Rotobit]

I will always hate how the anime paints Mimikyu as evil/horrific

this is still the best characterization:



underneath that rag he's just an adorable little dark blob with self esteem issues

 

[mopinks]

the key difference is that Mimikyu in Smash would be very good and Eevee in Smash would not

 

[Deleted member 2669]

Mimikyu could have had a Disguise gimmick. Plenty of moves to put those claws and cudgel to use too. Of course, jumping would mean anyone could look under the costume...

 

[r_n]

I will always hate how the anime paints Mimikyu as evil/horrific

this is still the best characterization:



underneath that rag he's just an adorable little dark blob with self esteem issues

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Well it does lash out in the games too. I think both are valid interpretations of Mimikyu and there's no reason for it to be one or the other

 

[BGBW]

Mimikyu was the thinking man's Gen 7 Smash Rep

RIP

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Please.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Regarding Fire Emblem, I do think it is possible to screw up character roster.

Imagine if this was our Pokemon roster: Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Pichu, Blaziken, Infernape, Delphox & Incineroar. Variety wouldn't be as good.

There are more Marths than Marios or Links which isn't good.

Also, how would they de-clone characters anymore? They would have to change number ordering for current echoes. Or if it means number ordering is only for Ultimate.

 

[mopinks]

Please.

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sorry, grass types are only allowed to be one third of a character

 

[Neoxon]

Regarding Fire Emblem, I do think it is possible to screw up character roster.

Imagine if this was our Pokemon roster: Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Pichu, Blaziken, Infernape, Delphox & Incineroar. Variety wouldn't be as good.

There are more Marths than Marios or Links which isn't good.

Also, how would they de-clone characters anymore? They would have to change number ordering for current echoes. Or if it means number ordering is only for Ultimate.

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If they were to, say, declone Lucina by giving her some of Marth's old custom moves, she'd become the new Character #56, thus moving the numbers of everyone else.

Spoiler

Of course, this would mean that Isabelle would now become Character #69, which would be a doomsday scenario that I wouldn't want her to deal with.

 

[ned_ballad]

I will always hate how the anime paints Mimikyu as evil/horrific

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The games do too. The entire ghost trial features Mimikyu being terrifying. It also learns moves like Leech Life, which is literally sucking the other Pokemon's blood out.

 

[Apopheniac]

Imagine if this was our Pokemon roster: Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Pichu, Blaziken, Infernape, Delphox & Incineroar. Variety wouldn't be as good

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Blaziken and Infernape would probably be somewhat redundant, but I would be unironically hyped for Delphox

 

[Rotobit]

Well it does lash out in the games too. I think both are valid interpretations of Mimikyu and there's no reason for it to be one or the other

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It's more that whenever Meowth sees it he acts like he's seen a horrifying demon, which makes it impossible for the disguise to be self-esteem/shyness related and more a malicious trap

The games do too. The entire ghost trial features Mimikyu being terrifying. It also learns moves like Leech Life, which is literally sucking the other Pokemon's blood out.

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yeah and I think that's kinda lame, too

 

[Deleted member 2669]

lol

Ando was pretty solid, as were the other Melee composers (Sakai, Ikegami, Kitsuta) - there's a reason Melee's soundtrack still holds up almost 20 years later. I felt like Sakai kinda carries a lot of Brawl's core music team.

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Ando's work on 64 was fantastic too! 64 and Melee's original tracks (and the latter's arrangements) are unique and special in their own ways.

 

[Weiss]

Mimikyu is shaped like a friend.

 

[r_n]

Regarding Fire Emblem, I do think it is possible to screw up character roster.

Imagine if this was our Pokemon roster: Pikachu, Charizard, Mewtwo, Pichu, Blaziken, Infernape, Delphox & Incineroar. Variety wouldn't be as good.

There are more Marths than Marios or Links which isn't good.

Also, how would they de-clone characters anymore? They would have to change number ordering for current echoes. Or if it means number ordering is only for Ultimate.

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There's nothing saying they have to keep the numbering system moving forward. It was meant as a marketing thing to show off that absolutely everyone is here, I can very easily see that JUST being an Ultimate thing even if every subequent game manages to bring everyone back.

 

[Apopheniac]

If they were to, say, declone Lucina by giving her some of Marth's old custom moves, she'd become the new Character #56, thus moving the numbers of everyone else.

Spoiler

Of course, this would mean that Isabelle would now become Character #69, which would be a doomsday scenario that I wouldn't want her to deal with.

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...eh. Maybe Dashing Assault would be nice, but I don't really think the others are worth bothering with.

The games do too. The entire ghost trial features Mimikyu being terrifying. It also learns moves like Leech Life, which is literally sucking the other Pokemon's blood out.

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They should've given this to Incineroar to appease Mimikyu fans

Ando's work on 64 was fantastic too! 64 and Melee's original tracks (and the latter's arrangements) are unique and special in their own ways.

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I set FD64 as my primary FD song in Ultimate, so don't think I'm dismissing his 64 work

 

[mopinks]

endlessly cloning Marth is just the easiest thing in the world to do because he's basically the blandest, most normal-human-shaped human in Smash

cloning pokemon is a lot harder because they're all shaped like weird toys

 

[Deleted member 2669]

I miss this weirdness.

 

[Ryce]

...eh. Maybe Dashing Assault would be nice, but I don't really think the others are worth bothering with.

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Yeah, Dashing Assault would be fine since Lucina does something similar in an Awakening cutscene, but none of her other customizations make more sense than the defaults.

 

[steviestar3]

The post about Lucina inheriting some of Marth's custom moves reminded me of a discussion point: are there any non Palutena/Mega Man custom moves that anyone would actually like to see back in a future game?

I was a fan of Wizard's Dropkick, but the current Wizard's Foot is already extremely good... can't think of many other customs I didn't hate.

 

[ned_ballad]

The post about Lucina inheriting some of Marth's custom moves reminded me of a discussion point: are there any non Palutena/Mega Man custom moves that anyone would actually like to see back in a future game?

I was a fan of Wizard's Dropkick, but the current Wizard's Foot is already extremely good... can't think of many other customs I didn't hate.

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Bowser's Fire Ball

 

[ClickyCal']

I guess people are preparing themselves for the inevitable, sometime in the future.

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You know what else was seemingly inevitable?

 

[Choppasmith]

You know what else was seemingly inevitable?

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Hah, I'll have to admit if Erdrick is surprisingly not confirmed, I'll find the resulting Endgame mashup to be hilarious!

 

[mopinks]

The post about Lucina inheriting some of Marth's custom moves reminded me of a discussion point: are there any non Palutena/Mega Man custom moves that anyone would actually like to see back in a future game?

I was a fan of Wizard's Dropkick, but the current Wizard's Foot is already extremely good... can't think of many other customs I didn't hate.

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Wario had a flower-scented fart

I don't know if it was worth anything, but it was very funny

 

[r_n]

I miss this weirdness.

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the all clear song seriously has no business being that ominous

 

[r_n]

The post about Lucina inheriting some of Marth's custom moves reminded me of a discussion point: are there any non Palutena/Mega Man custom moves that anyone would actually like to see back in a future game?

I was a fan of Wizard's Dropkick, but the current Wizard's Foot is already extremely good... can't think of many other customs I didn't hate.

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I liked Jigglypuff's Hyper Voice, DK's tornado punch and Ganondorf's sword punch

 

[ned_ballad]

I wonder if we got Lucas only because his specials were already made for Ness as customs?

 

[brinstar]

It's a shame the custom moves never reached their full potential

 

[steviestar3]

I wonder if we got Lucas only because his specials were already made for Ness as customs?

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Ness's customs weren't really that similar, especially in terms of visual effects. PK Freeze is the biggest example.

 

[Apopheniac]

I actually preferred Bowser's Fire Roar to his Fireball, since it worked better as an intermittent mid-range burst option

 

[ClickyCal']

I still can't believe they made custom moves, and samus didn't have the ice beam as one.

 

[ned_ballad]

I still can't believe they made custom moves, and samus didn't have the ice beam as one.

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Samus didn't have anything

No ice missiles, no ice beam, no power bomb, no shinespark, nothing. All of these could have re-used animations. She even could have had some moves taken from Dark Samus.

 

[r_n]

Ness's customs weren't really that similar, especially in terms of visual effects. PK Freeze is the biggest example.

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Yeah I think what was significantly more relevant for Lucas was Ness, in general, already existing.
Like the other options were 3 entirely ground-up characters (and one was a third party so that'd probably be costlier even if Konami of the era was for it) and Wolf who, let's face it, even with Fox existing, would need a massive model overhaul.

meanwhile lucas can reuse ness' base model (also, jump physics) almost entirely

 

[ClickyCal']

Samus didn't have anything

No ice missiles, no ice beam, no power bomb, no shinespark, nothing. All of these could have re-used animations. She even could have had some moves taken from Dark Samus.

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Yea, the closest thing could be arguably the "super missile", but it's really the super missile. That was so much missed potential that it made me not care about custom moves.

 

[ned_ballad]

Yeah I think what was significantly more relevant for Lucas was Ness, in general, already existing.
Like the other options were 3 entirely ground-up characters (and one was a third party so that'd probably be costlier even if Konami of the era was for it) and Wolf who, let's face it, even with Fox existing, would need a massive model overhaul.

meanwhile lucas can reuse ness' base model (also, jump physics) almost entirely

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Lucas in Smash 4 also shared some animations with Ness that he did not share in Brawl and no longer does in Ultimate, either

Lucas was done "good enough" for Smash 4, but there were some cut corners. It's good Ultimate went back and fixed him, though.

 

[r_n]

Lucas in Smash 4 also shared some animations with Ness that he did not share in Brawl and no longer does in Ultimate, either

Lucas was done "good enough" for Smash 4, but there were some cut corners. It's good Ultimate went back and fixed him, though.

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Do you know what animations were shared? I played a fair amount of Lucas but it was a long time between Brawl & Smash 4 so changes like that flew over me

 

[Apopheniac]

Bowser's Slip Bomb was nice since it meant you could whiff slightly without being vulnerable

I liked Mega Man's Danger Wrap a lot as well

 

[ned_ballad]

Do you know what animations were shared? I played a fair amount of Lucas but it was a long time between Brawl & Smash 4 so changes like that flew over me

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I know his Final Smash was one, other than that, the Wiki just says

Many of Lucas' animations have been changed to match Ness'.

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https://www.ssbwiki.com/Lucas_(SSB4)

Brawl and Ultimate

But in Smash 4

Same as Ness

 

[r_n]

I know his Final Smash was one, other than that, the Wiki just says

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Lucas_(SSB4)

Brawl and Ultimate

But in Smash 4

Same as Ness

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Beyond Star Storm, his applause animation (which is still the same in Ultimate I think), & maybe his sleep animation I'm...actually not seeing much different from Brawl? https://youtu.be/-jXl1KB3Chk

 

[TMaakkonen]

On topic of animations, I feel like 3DS parity is why some animations in Smash Wii U were odd like ROB's less emotional eyes.

 

[r_n]

On topic of animations, I feel like 3DS parity is why some animations in Smash Wii U were odd like ROB's less emotional eyes.

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ROB's eyes were weird because they had emotion but there was a glitch that prevented them from being used

And they never fixed it

 

[ned_ballad]

On topic of animations, I feel like 3DS parity is why some animations in Smash Wii U were odd like ROB's less emotional eyes.

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ROB's eyes worked on the 3DS (always) and also Smash Wii U 1.0.0

The first patch broke ROB's eyes after he used his entrance animation, so they worked in any mode without an entrance animation