Nah, the EU version would be "Final Smash, Inc.", which would be as correct as Duck Hunt Duo.
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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 2 | Challengers Approaching!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Nah, the EU version would be "Final Smash, Inc.", which would be as correct as Duck Hunt Duo.
It's funny, because the US Smash site refers to Duck Hunt as a duo in the description for them.
Duck Hunt Duo is the proper and better name, prove me wrong.
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That's just a small vocal minority.
Female Corrin is more popular then half of the current Fire emblem Smash characters.
People really exaggerate the "fans hate Fates" thing.
Idk I like Duck Hunt as a name because technically the character is "NES Zapper" which people associate with Duck Hunt.
So you're playing as the game (even if there's a cameo by Hogan's Alley too)
Smash 4 is outdated now; Ultimate site is the newer and clearly the more canon source.
Besides, the Zapper guy never felt like an ally to them during gameplay anyway. The dog is always afraid of the shots and has to dodge them whenever they happen; he's more like an outside force accidentally helping them, not actually a part of the team. If they are really such a crucial part of the team that they make them more than a duo, where is the hand and zapper on their render, or maybe a victory animation replicating the screenshot you posted above?
Sorry, but they are a duo. That trailer is a lie.
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Facts > Feelings
It's a trio, the duck is dodging some of the shots from the gun during their smash attacks
Yeah, facts:
this is the newest source to speak on the matter. Facts always win out!
You poor US peasants can't handle the truth that is Duck Hunt DUO.
EDIT: I should probably make sure that nobody is taking this 100% seriously, because i'm joking... about the peasant part, Duck Hunt Duo is still the superior (and legit, based on the Ultimate website) name.
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Duck Hunt hasn't had a good Smash render, ever
Smash 4's pose is... what? And Ultimate makes it impossible to include both the bird and dog in the same frame if the frame is too small without editing the render
Also why is the default duck color not the black and green duck used for Duck Hunt marketing
Smash 4's pose is... what? And Ultimate makes it impossible to include both the bird and dog in the same frame if the frame is too small without editing the render
Also why is the default duck color not the black and green duck used for Duck Hunt marketing
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The duck is fine, but the dog is in an awkward pose imo
Something seems off about it
Biggest crime of Duck Hunt's renders is that neither of them use the laugh.
There's always next time I guess.
People really think they would add Dark Pit and bring Dr. Mario back? Ridiculous.
EDIT: Aw, my ESRB Leak reference didn't hit. Oh well.
There's always next time I guess.
Well yeah, it's just some fan render taken off Google ImagesThe duck is fine, but the dog is in an awkward pose imo
Something seems off about it
People really think they would add Dark Pit and bring Dr. Mario back? Ridiculous.
EDIT: Aw, my ESRB Leak reference didn't hit. Oh well.
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I think the core issue of the FE characters in Smash is their base design. Marth in Melee was added more as a direct counterpoint to Link than to represent FE itself. That's why he was an entirely sword focused character, ignoring the Fire Emblem shield that he carries during most of his games, or any items. He was there to be a complete sword specialist contrasting with Link, who already was a sword user with a shield and a variety of items. That was fine by itself, but when FE's representation was expanded other characters were tied by the same premise, not only the Marth clones but also Ike. On top of that, other unrelated characters like Shulk make the whole "weapon specialist" premise less original. Robin had a more original implementation, but his lack of speed apparently didn't make him very popular in Smash, and then Corrin was right back to weapon specialist, although with transforming abilities to complement it.
I think the best way to make FE characters stand out in Smash would be to reference its tactical game origin - you don't command just one character, but a small group. The characters could keep their main movesets as their are, but they could replace their specials with summoning other FE characters to attack alongside them. For example, Marth's counter could actually make Draug pop up in the battlefield to take the hit for him and counter-attack, while his charge attack could become a short ranged Aura, where Linde would pop up to launch it. That would give them a big visual gimmick that they currently lack.
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Yeah, facts:
this is the newest source to speak on the matter. Facts always win out!
You poor US peasants can't handle the truth that is Duck Hunt DUO.
Why single out US when it's Duck Hunt in another region(s) as well, like Japan, iirc. Said by the fan and community who always relied on all information from all smash developments and sites to cite for their arguments. Suddenly we just made an expectation for your case with Smash 4 being outdated! :P
I always thought Duck Hunt is fitting name for the characters because the moveset essentially works like Duck Hunt where the zapper would trying to shoot at the dog and duck, as if it's just like in the game. if people like Duck Hunt Duo, that's okay.
I wish. They could just make a pender of Dog and Duck laughing together. Something about Duck covering their beak with the wing.
I always find it weird that people acts like Mimikyu is 100% shoo-in during speculation when there are few glaring issues with the Pokemon as playable character.
The duck is fine, but the dog is in an awkward pose imo
Something seems off about it
Probably the hind leg. I didn't really have any issues but I can see your point there.
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Also I want to say this, I really find it incredibly stupid when people like to discusses about cuts after getting one of biggest announcement trailer where we actually got all characters back.
But I guess haters gotta hates!
But I guess haters gotta hates!
I've learned from Direct announcement/discussion threads that a lot of people on Era are from the United States; they definitely outnumber the Era users from Japan, that's for sure. My arguments in favour of the Duck Hunt Duo name aren't really all that serious (but people are definitely taking it that way), I just prefer the name (but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that my version of the game uses it).
People don't need to be so defensive over the 'Duck Hunt' name or the """"trio'""" aspect of the character, those don't really matter in-game at all (and again, the Ultimate site ignored that aspect and called them a duo regardless).
I've ranted about this plenty of times. Cut discussion during the pre-release for Ultimate didn't make any sense at all to me. I get the feeling that some Smash fans are really masochists; I mean, why else would they want to keep discussing a worse timeline with tons of disappointing cuts?
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I've lost my mains so many times over the years that I use cut discussion as a coping mechanism to brace myself.
I can't really relate to this at all. I mean, I lost Lucas for eight months, but that got me to get better with Ness so i'm a bit grateful for that to be honest.
Boy am I glad that Brawl was delayed for Sonic, otherwise I would have experienced this tragic fate too.
In my case, I often play Street Fighter, which starts from scratch for each numbered entry. Roster cuts just feel like business as usual for sequels, with Smash Ultimate being one of the rare exceptions. I don't expect every fighting game to follow Smash Ultimate's lead, it's just not realistic.
I think the discussion about cuts is futile because the future of Smash is so malleable. Like if someone really hates FE characters, then they should probably realize that drastic cuts there would mean drastic character cuts across the board. It's literally a zero sum game for all of us if cutting happens.
I think it's worth preparing for cuts because we won't know what to expect next time, but it isn't worth worrying about. Not even Sakurai wants to worry about the next Smash.
I think it's worth preparing for cuts because we won't know what to expect next time, but it isn't worth worrying about. Not even Sakurai wants to worry about the next Smash.
I guess people are preparing themselves for the inevitable, sometime in the future.
It was already happening before Ultimate was even out, which really peeved me. 'Everyone is Here' was still the future at that point, and people were STILL discussing alternate scenarios where characters were cut.
I just didn't get it, and I still don't.
I mained Doc and Mewtwo in Melee...
Then I mained Wolf and Ike in Brawl, and lost Wolf
I mained Toon Link and Mewtwo in Smash 4, and was bracing myself for Mewtwo going away again
Now I main Ganondorf and Dark Samus. Ganon isn't going anywhere, but Dark Samus...
Out of the DLC veterans from Smash 4, Mewtwo was really the biggest lock for returning (even though I believed in every Smash 4 character returning). Dark Samus probably won't go anywhere in the future; echoes will live on because of how relatively simple they are to include. Plus, she's pretty much just Samus with some cool aesthetic flair, so moveset wise she will never be gone.
Mewtwo was a lock for returning in Brawl, and yet there was no Mewtwo.
I did appreciate that Mewtwo was one of the first vets shown for Ultimate, though, so I now think Mewtwo is here for good. He was shown off with series staples like Samus and Metaknight. And not tacked onto the literal last second like Wolf.
Echoes returning or not will likely depend on if Sakurai goes through a Brawl phase of wanting to declone everyone, or if he remains fine with echoes as they are.
After they made such a big deal about Mewtwo in Smash 4 (being the first DLC character, a reward for people who purchased both versions, the subject of a weird tease in the 50 facts video and a clear response to the fan demand for his return) it only made sense for Mewtwo to stay for good.
I think Sakurai is done with mass decloning in Smash by now. He knows that people like playing characters as they are, and Smash Ultimate really didn't feature many moveset revamps for that reason. I think Echoes will stay as echoes, otherwise the numbering thing gets really weird.
Thank gawd, that's how I feel! We are FINALLY for the first time since Smash 64, in a position to no longer talk about cuts. Everyone is here! That's enough for me. I don't need to whine about how Dark pit should have been cut or whatnot. Let's just enjoy what we have and discuss what else could come in the future! Who cares about cuts?
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I'm pretty sure that I ranted bout it few times but I'm not sure if I did that on this forum or in the discord.
I'm fine with characters being cutting because I'm used to it due to many fighting games but Smash Bros is something different so it's weird for me.
Of course, for most people, the discussions about cutting was just pettiness because they hate the characters for certain reasons; "Stole the spot from their favorite characters (Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., etc)", "they are too strong (Bayonetta, Belmonts, Cloud)", Nintendo Purists (Third Parties), etc.
It's annoying when people are being irrational about the cuts. I get it with the fact that the cuts is inevitable because they would run out of time during development but not for the reasons that people discussed about the cuts.
Like Thanos said, It's Inevitable.
I was talking about cut discussions that happened during Ultimate speculation period, not post-release period. Why entertains the thoughts about it during hype speculation when they could just do it like 3-4 years later.
Even if you disregard the zapper user as being part of the team (which they are), the character of Duck Hunt does not just consist of the duck and dog either. There's the Hogan's Alley dudes that you can summon!
Besides, Duck Hunt is called Duck Hunt in the Japanese version, which is the one Sakurai has direct control over in regards to the names, and unlike say Bowser or the Pokemon names, Duck Hunt did not need to be 'localized'.
Besides, Duck Hunt is called Duck Hunt in the Japanese version, which is the one Sakurai has direct control over in regards to the names, and unlike say Bowser or the Pokemon names, Duck Hunt did not need to be 'localized'.
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Right, but apparently some people dislike that! :P
That's me every time I see someone entertaining the thought of cuts for Ultimate as "BUT WHAT IF."
I've lost Wolf yet I still am going to maintain that other than potential third party rights being muddled resulting in characters getting dropped on that front, the roster is not going to get any cuts, period.
Consider the history of cuts we've had so far:
- Brawl dropped most of the clones (we know that Roy and Dr. Mario were planned at least, while Young Link got replaced by Toon Link, and I believe that Pichu was going to get replaced by Pra_mai) as well as Mewtwo, who was dropped in favour of Sonic - which isn't too strange a choice given that Brawl had 2 Pokemon newcomers, one of which was a 3-character moveset, and Jigglypuff almost didn't make it either.
- Smash 4 dropped Snake (presumably because of rights issues), Ice Climbers (because of technical difficulties, we have this 100% confirmed by Sakurai). We can surmise that with the transformation mechanic being an issue for the 3DS version, that is why only one of PT's Pokemon survived the transition, and it was the most popular one of the 3 (Charizard). And finally, the remaining two characters are derivatives of other characters - Lucas and Wolf. And I do think that Wolf was cut and not brought back as DLC because in Brawl, he was a hodgepodge of janky, unfinished animations, and fixing those issues would have taken more effort than the other veteran DLC.
- Smash 4 also, of course, brought back Dr. Mario in the base game, and Lucas, Roy and Mewtwo as DLC, with Mewtwo being center-stage for opening up the DLC.
With how much work went into updating the other returning veterans for Ultimate, I just don't see that getting discarded. Barely any of the characters out of the first party stable are 'worth' getting cut, either, as I mentioned before - you can count them on a hand. And if you're already bringing back the vast majority of characters, why would you not do so for the half a dozen of characters that don't fall into any of the categories I mentioned earlier?
Saving 5 or so characters out of 80 (or more if the DLC continues) doesn't save much development time, but it definitely saves a lot of fan backlash if you keep them.
I know people bring up games like Street Fighter that keep on resetting the roster over and over, but don't forget that they also resell mostly old characters as DLC these days, and also that Smash is far, FAR more centered on the characters being video game all-stars, not just some random ass martial artist, and even then, the recurring and older characters tend to be super popular and highly requested even in SF. Nobody gives a shit about an Abel or a Remy not being in later Street Fighter titles, but I always see a lot of requests for the likes of M. Bison or Zangief.
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Consider the history of cuts we've had so far:
- Brawl dropped most of the clones (we know that Roy and Dr. Mario were planned at least, while Young Link got replaced by Toon Link, and I believe that Pichu was going to get replaced by Pra_mai) as well as Mewtwo, who was dropped in favour of Sonic - which isn't too strange a choice given that Brawl had 2 Pokemon newcomers, one of which was a 3-character moveset, and Jigglypuff almost didn't make it either.
- Smash 4 dropped Snake (presumably because of rights issues), Ice Climbers (because of technical difficulties, we have this 100% confirmed by Sakurai). We can surmise that with the transformation mechanic being an issue for the 3DS version, that is why only one of PT's Pokemon survived the transition, and it was the most popular one of the 3 (Charizard). And finally, the remaining two characters are derivatives of other characters - Lucas and Wolf. And I do think that Wolf was cut and not brought back as DLC because in Brawl, he was a hodgepodge of janky, unfinished animations, and fixing those issues would have taken more effort than the other veteran DLC.
- Smash 4 also, of course, brought back Dr. Mario in the base game, and Lucas, Roy and Mewtwo as DLC, with Mewtwo being center-stage for opening up the DLC.
With how much work went into updating the other returning veterans for Ultimate, I just don't see that getting discarded. Barely any of the characters out of the first party stable are 'worth' getting cut, either, as I mentioned before - you can count them on a hand. And if you're already bringing back the vast majority of characters, why would you not do so for the half a dozen of characters that don't fall into any of the categories I mentioned earlier?
Saving 5 or so characters out of 80 (or more if the DLC continues) doesn't save much development time, but it definitely saves a lot of fan backlash if you keep them.
I know people bring up games like Street Fighter that keep on resetting the roster over and over, but don't forget that they also resell mostly old characters as DLC these days, and also that Smash is far, FAR more centered on the characters being video game all-stars, not just some random ass martial artist, and even then, the recurring and older characters tend to be super popular and highly requested even in SF. Nobody gives a shit about an Abel or a Remy not being in later Street Fighter titles, but I always see a lot of requests for the likes of M. Bison or Zangief.
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There's a Mario Maker 2 Direct incoming.
(The joke is that Toadette will be confirmed for Smash in this upcoming Direct.)
I figured that the joke was related to some Direct, but I didn't catch that a Mario Maker 2 Direct is happening soon.
Doctor Mario, being the first cut veteran to ever return to Smash, is the father of the "Everyone is Here" concept.
All other cut vets owe their lives to Doctor Mario
All other cut vets owe their lives to Doctor Mario
The worst match I ever had in Ultimate was an online match vs Duck Hunt on hazardless Fourside.
I was Cloud
What was I even supposed to do in that match
This was the only match I can remember ever facing Duck Hunt online, so that match is now how I view Duck Hunt.
I was Cloud
What was I even supposed to do in that match
This was the only match I can remember ever facing Duck Hunt online, so that match is now how I view Duck Hunt.
Street Fighter V also isn't a big success story even if it didn't outright bomb. Roster resets aren't exactly a selling point. They're just a tradition that stuck due to being repeated often due to early games needing big sprite or 3d animation revamps which forced that situation. It shouldn't be done just because it's how they usually do things.
SFV's main problem was a lack of modes at launch. The launch roster size is par the course for new numbered entries.
To be fair, Guile never showed up in Alpha 1 or 2 (plus all of the SFIII games). Plus half of SFV's base roster was already filled with SFII characters.
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So he's to the Smash roster as (AVENGERS ENDGAME SPOILERS)
that rat is to the Avengers, or really the whole universe in general
I actually had a feeling Mewtwo was gonna get cut during Brawl, because it was almost totally absent in the Pokemon franchise at that time. This was back when I thought characters had to be cut to "make room" for other ones though, which is silly looking back.
Guile is the only* character you can't play as on my copy of SFV, I very much appreciate how his DLC status and the fight money scheme allowed me to pass over his boring self....and then he turned up as an AT here, oh well
*oh and Oni, I forget that guy exists like Capcom forgot season 4.
*oh and Oni, I forget that guy exists like Capcom forgot season 4.
I mean, Capcom has become notorious and even downright despised for their character DLC practices especially during SF x Tekken where like half of the roster was on the disc but ended up having to be bought as DLC.
Sakurai has a completely different philosophy about this kind of stuff though, it's pretty obvious with Everyone Is Here, and how much he emphasized that people are upset when their favourite character gets cut, and that that is even one of the reasons why he doesn't want to give Ganondorf a wholly different moveset despite that being probably one of the most consistent things people want.
I don't think Sakurai likes cutting characters at all.
Sakurai has a completely different philosophy about this kind of stuff though, it's pretty obvious with Everyone Is Here, and how much he emphasized that people are upset when their favourite character gets cut, and that that is even one of the reasons why he doesn't want to give Ganondorf a wholly different moveset despite that being probably one of the most consistent things people want.
I don't think Sakurai likes cutting characters at all.
He also emphasized that this wasn't something that could be repeated. While we should definitely enjoy it while it lasts, we should also brace ourselves for cuts in the next Smash game.
I'm pretty sure that he was talking about the third parties in particular, because obviously it's going to be difficult to keep all the rights in order from here on out, especially with the additional DLC characters, and considering that it seems that getting the rights for Cloud back was a pain in the ass (though the other current partner companies appear to be a lot more willing to give Sakurai access to their IP), and we had already lost Snake because of a similar issue with Konami during Smash 4.
The third parties can change their minds at any given time, and Sakurai can't do a damn thing about it.
But I firmly believe every first party character is safe.
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