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Super Meat Boy Forever release window set, will be Epic Store exclusive for a year
- Thread starter Vaelic
- Start date
Yeah, by competing on the merits, not paying Microsoft to only let Windows run on AMD CPUs
You would understand if you read a bit more what people have already posted, before you post yourself.
How about loyalty to yourself, trusting that you're comfortable with a client, for good reasons? And that you're open for new options, when you can see that it's good for you as well as the seller?
Epic Launcher is the very definition of preferential treatment. You wanna know what the split Epic offers to not well known devs that haven't sold much?
A big, fat 0%
User Warned: Provocative post.
It means there are a lot of problems with Steam currently and every time Valve is tasked with trying to fix a problem instead of actually doing something they build some sort of stupid algorithm to handle all the work for them so they don't actually have to do shit. The lack of competition has allowed valve to be pretty lazy.
We're talking about a fledgling platform doing deals to establish itself vs an actual policy that's in place on Steam. Obviously what Epic is doing is preferential treatment in the sense they are pre-selecting content but what Steam is doing is cowardly adjusting rates on popular products in an effort to keep them on while telling lesser known ones to fuck off. It's disgusting.
I have no problem with any developer making any economic decision they choose.
However, what I do have a problem with is subsequently arguing for that business decision in bad faith.
I'm very certain that devs are more than aware that the differences between e.g. Steam and the Epic game client are more than just a different launcher. Not just in terms of features -- though there's a massive gulf in that category, from basic cloud saves and achievements to more niche stuff like in-home streaming or advanced controller rebinding -- but also in terms of worldwide pricing and sales as well as OS support. Especially the latter can just plain prevent some people from playing your game.
So don't try to paint anyone who doesn't support the business decision you made as a lunatic.
Right now Chinese cant play that game.... Steams 3rd biggest market.
"For the consumers"
Considering Epic's ties to Tencent I doubt that doesn't get handled with the quickness
This isn't rocket science.
Putting it on Steam essentially solves nothing, since most of you will buy it on Steam even when you know the dev cuts aren't as generous as what Epic is offering.
All Valve needs to do to shut this down now is to improve the value proposition for small devs and Indies. You could achieve your aims by lobbying Valve to change. But you won't.
That speaks volumes.
We're talking about a company that has the most poplar game in the world at the moment and this also 40% owned by a major Chinese corporation that are "cowardly" paying off devs to expand their already sizable footprint. So you must be pretty disgusted at Epic then.
It will be a problem since Tencent has some beef with the chinese government and if they officially release it there, they would need to apply for it.
On Steam you can just release it and be done with.
MHW that Tencent literally bought isnt available in China via WeGame, Tencents own launcher, but is on Steam.
Yes.
I already said that in my first reply to you.
Epic Store and Steam are competing *stores fronts*
Yes. I will agree with you a second time on this.
(Timed) exclusives are monopolies on a thing.
Monopoly and competition are mutually exclusive.
Literally as it stands right now, it's monopolies in two ways.
1.) You can *only* buy games on the Epic Game store through them. Until GMG, Fanatical, etc are able to sell EGS keys, they will have a monopoly on sales.
ADDITIONALLY, because of the 88/12 split, that means these sites will not be able to give the same 25% discounts like they have been on brand new games like they can for Steam keys. Because they were taking from their own 30% cut (Steam was making 0%)
This is worse for the consumer.
2.) It will only be available on Epic Games Store for 1 year.
SMBF will not be competing for sales on PC.
Is this what Refenes has actually said? What are some of these problems you're referring to that are important to Refenes?
Thanks for the response BTW. I'm genuinely interested in getting to the core of this rather than just assuming it's about money (which it may be).
Because consoles are different and that's that.
/s (sadly it's even needed)
The devs going with Epic Store exclusives right now are not doing that just for that change in the dev's cut. They're doing it because Epic are giving them money.
This is not going to be shut down just because Valve changes the cut. Epic will still continue to buy exclusivity,
Well yeah, that's the plan. And I would love to see that happen too, but its not nearly as likely to ever happen, sadly.
I don't remember specifically, but it's evergreen. A common (but fortunately far from universal) mindset amongst successful indie developers is to attempt to pull the ladder up behind them.
I think it was probably developers complaining about how opening Steam up to more developers was making it harder for them to have a hit game without effectively marketing their game.
No.. They aren't trying to remove choice from anyone. They are choosing to work with a company that they maybe feel has a chance of actually making Valve change. Do you think working with itch.io would cause Valve to change? Do you think if they release their game on Steam at the same time as itch.io that they'd make Valve change?
Be realistic here... Even if it's not about making Valve change.. and they just got a wad of cash from Epic and they chose to make their game available only there. That's a free open market. They can make that choice. It's a business in which they want to make money.
Epic is understandably wanting exclusives to push their store and they are working with developers to seemingly market those games. Maybe those devs like to work with a company that is going to advertise for them.. and that it's not all just about sales. Maybe they want a relationship and want to feel important.. and Valve doesn't give that to them anymore because Valve's too big?
You may think that's petty, but it's realistic.
Why are people mad about this? You don't pay extra cash to play multiplayer like on console and you will get better deals. The PC is not a close system, so you wouldn't have to buy different PC's to play games.
Is the Steam community and reviews that important?
Is the Steam community and reviews that important?
He got paid to make his game exclusive for 12 months.
The developers that decided to accept money for exclusivity need to hear loud and clear that at least part of their customer base is very upset by the fact that they went that route. It may sound mean-spirited, but so is receiving money for exclusivity and pretending that it's some sort of cause that's driving your decisions. Regardless of that, their decision will and should be attacked by those who don't agree with it.
QUOTE="KalBalboa, post: 15821849, member: 27219"]Corporate loyalty? I dunno.[/QUOTE]
How is being against 3rd party exclusives on PC aka an open platform corporate loyalty? Put your games on every store possible don't lock them to one. This isn't competing it's anti competitive.
How is being against 3rd party exclusives on PC aka an open platform corporate loyalty? Put your games on every store possible don't lock them to one. This isn't competing it's anti competitive.
I never said consoles devs shouldnt get a bigger cut too. I excluded it only because I think it's much less likely too happen.
Gonna hazard a guess that changes relatively rapidly tbh
Epic/Tencent seem to be gearing up for a very aggressive campaign
Thats not all that Steam is doing.
For some they wanna play the game on Linux and Valve just this year released Proton, so you can play almost all Windows games on Linux.
Others want to use Steam BPM to play the game on their TV with customizable controls.
Others want to play it on their Android device which they could do with Steam Link.
Some cant buy the games in their pricing, since it doesnt have regional prices there yet.
Some cant play it at all, since the Epic Launcher wont be available to them.
Then they should stop pretending there is some altruistic higher purpose.
They should just say "fuck you, got mine".
Regional pricing in poorer countries, automatic Linux support through Proton, cloud saves, achievements, universal controller support through Steam Input, Big Picture Mode, and a sensible refund policy.
All things that are missing from the Epic store.
Not to mention some of us just think the practice of buying exclusivity on an open platform is scummy to begin with.
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Then they should release their games exclusively on the Epic Store. No Switch, no PS4, no Xbox One. For sure that will force them to reduce the cut to 12%.
These indie dev sour grapes sure is something. Valve really seems to have ignored these folks since they're so ready to give Epic such a big advantage.
Reminds me of when all the Japanese 3rd parties told Nintendo to kick rocks during the PS1 era.
Reminds me of when all the Japanese 3rd parties told Nintendo to kick rocks during the PS1 era.
Exclusive? Again you don't pay to get access to the store. Or is memory still expensive?
What speaks volumes is you deliberately ignoring, thread after thread, one very simple fact that has been pointed out to you many times before: On the customer side, there are zero advantages and significant disadvantages from the game being available only on the Epic Store. If you can, name one advantage that the customer gets by the game being an Epic Game Store exclusive. Can you name one? Just one?
Just read the posts. I'm not going to do that work for you, just because you chose to play dumb and try being provocative.
That will never happen because the platform holder license fee (which is part of that 30%) pays for the development of middleware, platform specific APIs and services that need to be in place for 3rd parties to make the games they want to make. They can't release a console game without paying that license fee (and cannot make games without being able to tap into those APIs and services). That's not to say that there aren't backroom deals and that there aren't sweetheart deals made behind the scenes (there certainly are; such as Activision taking a cut out of Xbox Live fees), but the cost has to be there and ultimately, the publisher/developer has to pay the fee and use those services to publish on that platform.
On PC though? Developers can set things up entierly on their own, and have a choice of storefronts (with varying levels of services that they can choose to tap into - or roll their own).
No. Steam provides far more than just a launcher for the game unlike Epic:
If you are a Linux gamer, you cant play it on Epic if it launches as a windows game.
If you want to play it on your TV, you cant use Steam BPM.
If you have a strange controller or a Switch Pro, you might not be able to play it.
Some people in low-income regions cant play it since the game might cost the equivalent of 150€.
Some people cant play it, because Epic blocked the access to the store to them.
Thats what Valve does too. They have a R&D department that develops hardware and software (Steam Knuckles, VR hardware devices, Steam Link, VR APIs) and Steam specific APIs for cloud saves, achievements, modding, matchmaking etc.
I wasn't responding to you directly, just in a general sense. I agree it's much less likely to happen, but it's a shame they don't even try.
And if the profit split is essentially the main problem, exactly why aren't they selling Steam keys on their own website? Like, no option at all?
I'm sure if people knew the devs get 100% of the profit they would rather buy it from their website. Of course, not everyone would, so you still need a storefront for those "not in the know". But 100% is better than 88/12. right?
Maybe they aren't pretending though? Obviously you're not open to the idea... Everything should be about you though, shouldn't it?
Well for one store front curation has been a nightmare for quite some time literally three dozen games get released on steam each day it seems. Especially if you're a smaller indie dev its easy to get lost in the swamp of garbage that steam harbors.
Steam kind of went the entirely complete opposite of being a walled garden and kind of has let just about anything on to the store including games that somehow have had cryptocurrency miners hidden in them or have just been generally peddling hate speech.
Its a nightmare for both end users and developers and valve stays about as hands off as it can in most cases unless its ever legally required to take action. Nobody wants a walled garden but it seems Valve has done a poor job at curating anything on its storefront and instead relies on things like the "curator" program where groups can manually suggest and curate games they think are worth a buy. Its a neat idea except it completely still ignores a lot of the fundamental issues steam has right now.