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State of The Union 2024 | President Biden | March 7th 9 PM EST
- Thread starter DestinyArrives
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Maybe. Sending military aid to Israel isn't exactly popular at the moment and is likely to get even less popular over time.
im angry cuz twilight zone music isn't 'horror'
was hoping for the Halloween ost
The simple truth is that a non-vote for Biden is helping Trump. Helping Trump get elected will not only make things worse in the Middle-East, but make things worse for your friends and loved-ones here. You can justify your protest vote all you want, but putting your head in the sand and not looking hard at what it does to countless people in your own backyard, let alone the people around the world that will only suffer greater is just ignorant and dangerous. But you do you I guess.
Frankly if there are protest votes set up around Biden ceasing US involvement in genocide, they need to suck it up and vote for Biden like everyone else.
If Biden considers those potential voters worth keeping over anti-genocide protest voters, that is his campaign's decision and the election will see if they pays off or not.
Even without US supplied arms, isn't Israel one of the most formidable military's on the planet? Is there any reason to believe that they'd just instantly stop doing what they're doing if Biden strongly puts his foot down?
Also, how come I pretty much NEVER see any of the "fuck Biden" posters in these threads actually attacking the person carrying out the actions in Netanyahu? He's the true monster here. As much as it has become engrained in Americans' minds that Israel is literally a puppet of the US, they aren't. If they have a psychotic, power hungry warmonger like Netanyahu in charge he's going to do what he wants.
There are still Americans held hostages. He can't unilaterally call for a case fire unless the hostages are part of it and cutting off supplies to a country that is doing the on the ground work to get hostages back will not look good to a different segment of the population. It's an impossibly complex situation where he doesn't unilaterally have the power to resolve without getting the US military in Gaza that would be an even bigger nightmare.
I think people put too much emphasis on public statements without realizing how much is happening in the background that Biden won't get credit for.
Israeli officials have said multiple times they couldn't support the current offensive effort in Gaza without the support of the US. If Biden stops supplying them with arms it will make a big difference.
Netanyahu is the primary person to blame but he's had full support from Biden so far. This is a largely US centric forum and Biden is the person most of us can impact, at least indirectly. Biden can possibly be changed, Bibi is set in his ways and unable to be influenced by anyone here. It goes without saying he's a monster and everyone can agree on that.
Not instantly stop but it would be much harder. They rely a ton on the US to provide bombs and ammunition. They would absolutely be hindered by it as said by Israeli officials. They also can't keep reservists fighting forever as it will destroy their economy even further. It would, likely, put a stop to their wanting to start a war in Lebanon.
I can't influence is Israeli politics at the moment. I think we all agree that Bibi is shit so I see no reason why I have to condemn Bibi every time I bring up Biden's support for the genocide.
We live in a hellscape where a campaign featuring at least one straight up demonic figure is always around the corner. That doesn't mean people need to perpetually withhold their frustration or sugarcoat their criticism even as the better by comparison candidate does absolutely horrible things.
I gladly voted for Hillary and I question the priorities of anyone even thinking about anti-Hillary posts from that period. It actually doesn't make sense to simultaneously care so much about the better candidate winning and at the same time be so focused on something so immaterial to that outcome.
It can always get worse, as that poster acknowledged. I believe the point is that this specific "it can get worse" framing is diminishing of the fact that it has already gotten so, so much worse, such that genocide has entered the picture and the amount of suffering that has been unleashed is unfathomable. At some point the logic of comparison and damage mitigation occupies a smaller and smaller part of the shelf we compartmentalize all these various conflicted feelings on.
The definition of holier than thou is finger wagging people enduring a genocide and trying to make them feel bad about it.
And as turtle mentioned a couple of posts above, what of the remaining hostages? If we cut Israel off and Bibi starts screaming about "Biden abandoning Israeli/American's," then what?
I truly do wish to believe that the situation is as simple as Biden stopping arms going to Israel but I just don't think it is. It'll help, sure.
Disagree that a policy change that is being suggested would simply exclude "genocide harder." people.
These stances being called for are not binary.
And don't use this post to say I'm not for a ceasefire, because I am.
You can still work to get the remaining hostages. The vast majority of hostages that have been brought back have been from the first ceasefire and not from military operations. Giving Israel all the means to carry out the genocide hasn't brought them back so far. Why assume it will a month from now?
It is that simple to not support a genocide.
Yeah I kind think what we are seeing here is a difference in the belief in how easy it is to stop it and how clear cut it is. We all want a ceasefire and for the genocide to stop. I bet all of us believe there is more going on behind the scenes too. But I think we just disagree with how simple it is.
I see the thread has devolved into the same circular arguments that every Biden thread tends to become.
View: https://x.com/yashar/status/1766329114292842930?s=46&t=qDKZt98wXUwG6Nw3awq7cA
Absolutely shameful.
View: https://x.com/yashar/status/1766329114292842930?s=46&t=qDKZt98wXUwG6Nw3awq7cA
Absolutely shameful.
Shameful is the perfect was to put it. Fucking disgusting.
User banned (2 weeks): inflammatory accusations
Nah it's pretty clean cut and dried.
You're either supporting an ethnostate that's actively committing genocide and quietly committing genocide in other places or you're not.
I do get that, but for a large, large percentage of Americans damage mitigation during elections is just another day at the office. And is also, I believe not hyperbolically, existential in nature.
I don't think anyone here, posting in good faith, believes that it hasn't already gotten so much worse for the people of Gaza. I don't think anyone here, posting in good faith, believes that what they're going through already isn't hell on earth. That's the existential nature of the choice before us in November, to where the damage mitigating nature of elections has now crossed into the minds of not just endangered minority groups but also the voting population at large.
It can be both true that what the people of Gaza are experiencing right now is an inhumane genocide while also acknowledging that the situation can and will continue to escalate should Trump win in November.
Mmhmmm. Historically protest is always met with finger wagging. Been reading a lot of civil rights and reconstruction era books and you'd be surprised how emphasized it is that the biggest obstacle is the (white) liberal. Even the black ones sometimes.
They talk about this very same phenomenon
Discussions about voting for Biden or not voting for him due to Gaza are pointless here. People are dug in and we just go in silly circles. Maybe we should just make that an OT instead, so we don't end up here every time. A vote for Biden is not supporting every one of his policies, it's a belief that you think he is the best choice out of the two for America going forward. A vote for Trump is choosing that you believe Trump is the best choice. Not voting is a belief that you don't care who wins, or don't care about which path America goes down ultimately.
Can you explain more? What do you think the stance of Israeli living is Israel should be if they are against the genocide? Do you think there's room for them to be concerned about their wellbeing while also actively being against the way their country is responding to the scenario?
I 100% agree that those discussions should be confined to an OT. But that won't happen and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why.
We're not talking about Israelis, we're talking about Americans. Americans should not be strongly supporting an active genocide.
Don't put up a strawman to handwave a country that's not only commiting genocide, but recording themselves celebrating it on TikTok.
As I said in the Axios SOTU Response thread: Very informative and glad this is out there.
Stop telling people who can't bring themselves to vote for anyone who willfully supports a genocide of their people that they don't care.
What Americans here are strongly supporting an active genocide?
No one is going to create a safe space for Biden stalwarts where they can plug their ears and ignore real criticism easier. That's so weird and antithetical for political discourse. This kind of thing could be extended to any issue and then what discussion do you even have anymore? That's the kind of shit you see in conservative cult circles. I also love how you use your post complaining about it to also make your own arguement for Biden lol.
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