That's not what I was saying.feel like the folks saying "genocide harder" were never gonna vote biden in the first place
That's not what I was saying.feel like the folks saying "genocide harder" were never gonna vote biden in the first place
100% agree.Maybe. Sending military aid to Israel isn't exactly popular at the moment and is likely to get even less popular over time.
Even without US supplied arms, isn't Israel one of the most formidable military's on the planet? Is there any reason to believe that they'd just instantly stop doing what they're doing if Biden strongly puts his foot down?The onus is then on Biden to change his position. It would solve the problem of protest votes.
Yep, all he has to do is end the supply of arms and put pressure for a cease fire.
That is all we ask, there are over a million people on the line and time is running out.
Even without US supplied arms, isn't Israel one of the most formidable military's on the planet? Is there any reason to believe that they'd just instantly stop doing what they're doing if Biden strongly puts his foot down?
Also, how come I pretty much NEVER see any of the "fuck Biden" posters in these threads actually attacking the person carrying out the actions in Netanyahu? He's the true monster here. As much as it has become engrained in Americans' minds that Israel is literally a puppet of the US, they aren't. If they have a psychotic, power hungry warmonger like Netanyahu in charge he's going to do what he wants.
Even without US supplied arms, isn't Israel one of the most formidable military's on the planet? Is there any reason to believe that they'd just instantly stop doing what they're doing if Biden strongly puts his foot down?
Also, how come I pretty much NEVER see any of the "fuck Biden" posters in these threads actually attacking the person carrying out the actions in Netanyahu? He's the true monster here. As much as it has become engrained in Americans' minds that Israel is literally a puppet of the US, they aren't. If they have a psychotic, power hungry warmonger like Netanyahu in charge he's going to do what he wants.
I feel like in a few years, most of the "F Biden" posts here and elsewhere will probably be viewed about as favourably as all the anti-Hillary posts from years ago, only to end up with Trump.
The definition of holier than thou is finger wagging people enduring a genocide and trying to make them feel bad about it.Protest votes will help Trump. Hope a second Trump presidency is worth feeling holier than thou.
Elections are not about social signaling. They're pragmatic exercises with real impacts on real people's lives, and in the US, they're a binary choice.
Israeli officials have said multiple times they couldn't support the current offensive effort in Gaza without the support of the US. If Biden stops supplying them with arms it will make a big difference.
Netanyahu is the primary person to blame but he's had full support from Biden so far. This is a largely US centric forum and Biden is the person most of us can impact, at least indirectly. Biden can possibly be changed, Bibi is set in his ways and unable to be influenced by anyone here. It goes without saying he's a monster and everyone can agree on that.
And as turtle mentioned a couple of posts above, what of the remaining hostages? If we cut Israel off and Bibi starts screaming about "Biden abandoning Israeli/American's," then what?Not instantly stop but it would be much harder. They rely a ton on the US to provide bombs and ammunition. They would absolutely be hindered by it as said by Israeli officials. They also can't keep reservists fighting forever as it will destroy their economy even further. It would, likely, put a stop to their wanting to start a war in Lebanon.
I can't influence is Israeli politics at the moment. I think we all agree that Bibi is shit so I see no reason why I have to condemn Bibi every time I bring up Biden's support for the genocide.
Disagree that a policy change that is being suggested would simply exclude "genocide harder." people.feel like the folks saying "genocide harder" were never gonna vote biden in the first place
And as turtle mentioned a couple of posts above, what of the remaining hostages? If we cut Israel off and Bibi starts screaming about "Biden abandoning Israeli/American's," then what?
I truly do wish to believe that the situation is as simple as Biden stopping arms going to Israel but I just don't think it is. It'll help, sure.
I see the thread has devolved into the same circular arguments that every Biden thread tends to become.
View: https://x.com/yashar/status/1766329114292842930?s=46&t=qDKZt98wXUwG6Nw3awq7cA
Absolutely shameful.
Disagree that a policy change that is being suggested would simply exclude "genocide harder." people.
These stances being called for are not binary.
And don't use this post to say I'm not for a ceasefire, because I am.
It can always get worse, as that poster acknowledged. I believe the point is that this specific "it can get worse" framing is diminishing of the fact that it has already gotten so, so much worse, such that genocide has entered the picture and the amount of suffering that has been unleashed is unfathomable. At some point the logic of comparison and damage mitigation occupies a smaller and smaller part of the shelf we compartmentalize all these various conflicted feelings on.
Mmhmmm. Historically protest is always met with finger wagging. Been reading a lot of civil rights and reconstruction era books and you'd be surprised how emphasized it is that the biggest obstacle is the (white) liberal. Even the black ones sometimes.The definition of holier than thou is finger wagging people enduring a genocide and trying to make them feel bad about it.
Truth.Discussions about voting for Biden or not voting for him due to Gaza are pointless here. People are dug in and we just go in silly circles. Maybe we should just make that an OT instead, so we don't end up here every time. A vote for Biden is not supporting every one of his policies, it's a belief that you think he is the best choice out of the two for America going forward. A vote for Trump is choosing that you believe Trump is the best choice. Not voting is a belief that you don't care who wins, or don't care about which path America goes down ultimately.
100% this.Discussions about voting for Biden or not voting for him due to Gaza are pointless here. People are dug in and we just go in silly circles. Maybe we should just make that an OT instead, so we don't end up here every time. A vote for Biden is not supporting every one of his policies, it's a belief that you think he is the best choice out of the two for America going forward. A vote for Trump is choosing that you believe Trump is the best choice. Not voting is a belief that you don't care who wins, or don't care about which path America goes down ultimately.
Can you explain more? What do you think the stance of Israeli living is Israel should be if they are against the genocide? Do you think there's room for them to be concerned about their wellbeing while also actively being against the way their country is responding to the scenario?Nah it's pretty clean cut and dried.
You're either supporting an ethnostate that's actively committing genocide and quietly committing genocide in other places or you're not.
Discussions about voting for Biden or not voting for him due to Gaza are pointless here. People are dug in and we just go in silly circles. Maybe we should just make that an OT instead, so we don't end up here every time. A vote for Biden is not supporting every one of his policies, it's a belief that you think he is the best choice out of the two for America going forward. A vote for Trump is choosing that you believe Trump is the best choice. Not voting is a belief that you don't care who wins, or don't care about which path America goes down ultimately.
I 100% agree that those discussions should be confined to an OT. But that won't happen and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why.Discussions about voting for Biden or not voting for him due to Gaza are pointless here. People are dug in and we just go in silly circles. Maybe we should just make that an OT instead, so we don't end up here every time.
Can you explain more? What do you think the stance of Israeli living is Israel should be if they are against the genocide? Do you think there's room for them to be concerned about their wellbeing while also actively being against the way their country is responding to the scenario?
I see the thread has devolved into the same circular arguments that every Biden thread tends to become.
View: https://x.com/yashar/status/1766329114292842930?s=46&t=qDKZt98wXUwG6Nw3awq7cA
Absolutely shameful.
Stop telling people who can't bring themselves to vote for anyone who willfully supports a genocide of their people that they don't care.Discussions about voting for Biden or not voting for him due to Gaza are pointless here. People are dug in and we just go in silly circles. Maybe we should just make that an OT instead, so we don't end up here every time. A vote for Biden is not supporting every one of his policies, it's a belief that you think he is the best choice out of the two for America going forward. A vote for Trump is choosing that you believe Trump is the best choice. Not voting is a belief that you don't care who wins, or don't care about which path America goes down ultimately.
We're not talking about Israelis, we're talking about Americans. Americans should not be strongly supporting an active genocide.
Don't put up a strawman to handwave a country that's not only commiting genocide, but recording themselves celebrating it on TikTok.
Discussions about voting for Biden or not voting for him due to Gaza are pointless here. People are dug in and we just go in silly circles. Maybe we should just make that an OT instead, so we don't end up here every time. A vote for Biden is not supporting every one of his policies, it's a belief that you think he is the best choice out of the two for America going forward. A vote for Trump is choosing that you believe Trump is the best choice. Not voting is a belief that you don't care who wins, or don't care about which path America goes down ultimately.