It was short on my first viewing, surprised after hearing how much time it took from people's impressions. Felt like 15 minutes, was probably 20 or something.
Feels even shorter on the third viewing. People really exaggerate on that part.
It was short on my first viewing, surprised after hearing how much time it took from people's impressions. Felt like 15 minutes, was probably 20 or something.
I'd say that coming close to killing the child of your loved sister because of a vision you had is a bit more than just being impulsive, it's in the territory of unimaginable. Leia and Hans lives would be ruined and Luke would be hated by everyone that meant something to him, so I don't get how it would be an action to save the things he holds dear.
In the original trilogy he was in a fierce fight against a person that had actually been doing horrible things for years and was responsible for countless deaths. It's a lot different.
If Luke Skywalker was basically put on pause for 30 years in terms of character development only to pick up at the time of TLJ, that would be horrendous and unnatural character writing.
And really, you keep bandying on about how RotJ left things off under the implication that he just somehow 'took care of that' integral part of his personality. I don't see that. What happened was that he went to Darth Vader determined to approach him non-aggressively because he believed in turning his father to the light. He saw that through in the end, but he stumbled along the way. But where in the world does it imply that Luke learned to never stumble or make mistakes in regards to that? Where is it said he learned to simply never get angry or let his anger control him?
It's established that he doesn't let his anger control him long term. That's all.
I'm kinda torn. I feel like I would enjoy it more with a second viewing but the film is just so long and exhausting. In fact, I think my biggest problem with the film is that it just isn't as "fun" as what I'm used to out of Star Wars. For better or for worse.
Eh, I'm not surprised. Subjective time perception is associated with mood states, after all.Feels even shorter on the third viewing. People really exaggerate on that part.
That's definitely a problem. These characters just don't have enough charisma to carry the low points.
These characters just don't have enough charisma to carry the low points.
Why is it so hard to understand that, in Ben, Luke sensed something darker, more chaotically evil and far gone than even Vader, and that that freaked him the fuck out? He even spells that fact out.
Why is it so hard to understand that, in Ben, Luke sensed something darker, more chaotically evil and far gone than even Vader, and that that freaked him the fuck out?
No one is saying they want to see Luke (or any character) put on pause for 30 years.
That's definitely a problem. These characters just don't have enough charisma to carry the low points.
He never saw himself as a Legend, the whole movie is about the deconstruction of Legends and failure, he was a man full of doubt and fear who never believed in his own status. That fear was what led to his failure.
And yet to me these new characters have oodles and poodles of charisma.... Rey, Kylo, Poe, Finn and Rose are incredibly dynamic.
Well one thing is for sure, Hamill's screen presence as Luke truly commands the screen on this one. I'm fact he practically dwarfs everyone else in comparison, the other new actors got one hell of a task to catching up to that kind of commanding screen charisma, none of them even remotely close.
I just wish he didn't die.
What did Luke, Han and Leia fight for when 30 years later they are back at square one? To top it off, Leia sees her son become a murderer, Han is killed by his son and Luke becomes a hermit.
It's bleak as ****, really dark. After what they did they deserved so much more, a hero's rest.
In 30 years time will Rey, Finn and Poe get killed off when The Empire rises again or will they get the rest they deserve?
And yet to me these new characters have oodles and poodles of charisma.... Rey, Kylo, Poe, Finn and Rose are incredibly dynamic.
There's nothing hard to understand about it. It's just that comes off a PT level fan fic nonsense.
"Sure I faced Darth Vader and starred down the Emperor, but what I saw here was omega level bad. Sure my nephew hasn't done anything but that was scarrrrryyyy!"
Eesh
Well, the difference here isn't angry, he's depressed and broken.As you said, he doesn't let his anger control him long term. Thus, hiding away on an island for 5 years while all his friends and everything he ever worked for is going to the dogs could be seen as a break from character, the type that would require some powerful writing to force the change. It is not unreasonable to be disappointed with Luke's role in this movie
Come on. Honestly you think Poe and Rose have oodles of dynamic personality? Honestly?
I love Oscar Issac but Poe has been dullsville from the get go in TFA.
Is it not possible that Luke foresaw a future with Ben being(equal to or) worse than Vader? Billions dying and all that Dark side stuff. Don't see why that's not scary to someone like Luke, after everything he's worked for he'll see another Skywalker commit such acts again but with more ferocity.
I can understand why he'd slip at that moment, nothing fan-fiction about it.
This
Unless I google it I still have problems naming a good chunk of the Rogue One characters that wasn't already in OT
Rose - maybe.. who cares?Come on. Honestly you think Poe and Rose have oodles of dynamic personality? Honestly?
I love Oscar Issac but Poe has been dullsville from the get go in TFA.
Yeah, forgot to mention the sound clues, he had his hand raised just thinking about it.They even mix screams and sounds of destruction into the scene where Luke tries to read Ben. It's *very* obvious that there's some demented shit in that boy.
I mean was Luke wrong to freak out?... Ben's response to seeing Luke's lightsaber was to kill a bunch of Luke's students (possibly some of them children?) and raze the whole thing to the ground....
He could have just called Mom.
They even mix screams and sounds of destruction into the scene where Luke tries to read Ben. It's *very* obvious that there's some demented shit in that boy.
Is it not possible that Luke foresaw a future with Ben being(equal to or) worse than Vader? Billions dying and all that Dark side stuff. Don't see why that's not scary to someone like Luke, after everything he's worked for he'll see another Skywalker commit such acts again but with more ferocity.
I can understand why he'd slip at that moment, nothing fan-fiction about it.
And I have trouble naming anyone in Schindler's list or citizen Kane or inception. I guess they must be bad movies.
amazing, every word in that sentence is wrong
everything is speculation except the one thing you say we were not privy to, which was mentioned in TLJ
But that's the main debate of the movie, isn't it? Everybody just assumed Luke (or any 20 something) just gets wiser and wiser or never has another flaw. Not only is that not really true, but as Mark Hamill said so a couple of years before the sequels were even considered, it wouldn't make for much of a story or interesting character.
Luke showed a brief moment a weakness and the dark side (Ben, Snoke) took immediate advantage of that. And just like almost half the fandom, let himself get crushed by unreal expectations about what he was supposed to be and do.
I don't think he conquered that character flaw, or rather we never see it. Vader taunts Luke about Leia, and he snaps instantly. Flash forward some years, Luke is now a galactic legend, training new Jedi. And one person stands to destroy it all, which Luke sees vividly in that moment with Ben. A moment of weakness is entirely reasonable, in that situation and with his character.
After, Luke has now 1) followed the Jedi pattern of failure, 2) lost Han and Leia's son to the dark side, 3) let many other students die, 4) had his temple destroyed, and 5) had his own mythical legend shattered. Falling from that height is going to hurt.
I think it's important to distinguish between Luke giving up on himself, and Luke deciding the Jedi order needs to end. He now sees the entire history of the Jedi as one of failure, and sees his role in that failure; in light of what that's cost the galaxy, he feels a responsibility to end it. He's shattered, but he doesn't tell Rey he deserves to die for his failings; the Jedi order does.
It's Rey and Yoda that help him get perspective on the role of failure in teaching the next generation. I also want to mention Mark Hamill's performance in this; for me, he sells the shit out of this story. I really feel his grief and regret during the second lesson to Rey, and understand his motivations. Mark really killed it, and that's a big part of why I think the story works.
That is far from nihilism. Things still mean things, both within the narrative and to the characters. I spoke and length before about how while Luke may be in the throes of depression, Rey's character arc is about her deciding to believe and carry on those legends, despite all the disappointments thrown in her face over the course of the movie.
Again, not really how good storytelling works, or atleast has to work, basically for the same reasons mentioned above.
If Luke Skywalker was basically put on pause for 30 years in terms of character development only to pick up at the time of TLJ, that would be horrendous and unnatural character writing.
And really, you keep bandying on about how RotJ left things off under the implication that he just somehow 'took care of that' integral part of his personality. I don't see that. What happened was that he went to Darth Vader determined to approach him non-aggressively because he believed in turning his father to the light. He saw that through in the end, but he stumbled along the way. But where in the world does it imply that Luke learned to never stumble or make mistakes in regards to that? Where is it said he learned to simply never get angry or let his anger control him?
It's established that he doesn't let his anger control him long term. That's all.
damn you just ruined the ST's big twist. Shamelessly stolen from Lost.T'was pretty obvious that he'd been planning that shit anyway.
I'm also pretty certain, by now, that the shot with Kylo and his Knights of Ren, if we ever return to it, was a flash forward.
What he's standing in, looks a lot like Rebel soldiers, definitely not Jedi pupils.
You have to be straight up trolling now.Come on. Honestly you think Poe and Rose have oodles of dynamic personality? Honestly?
I love Oscar Issac but Poe has been dullsville from the get go in TFA.
Doesn't the line follows say something like "he would kill everything dear to me"?
But I see your point, even if I don't agree with it. Ultimately, I still maintain that it isn't that different from Obiwan just telling us about obscure references that aren't fully explained. Anakin fought in the clone wars, Darth Vader was a Jedi that turned to the dark side, the Jedi order fell under him. These things were explained in a few lines and while people were definitely curious about seeing htose events unfold, the mystery in the end proved to be far better than the truth.
The force awakens metacritic: 81Are you smoking rock? This film didn't even remotely review a lot better than TFA, I'm not even aware of it having been reviewed better period
Oh right, I promised you to pay attention to it during my third viewing:
Rose doesn't tell Finn about the importance of her necklace. But he sees her cry while holding it the first time he sees her, and watches her fidget when DJ asks for it. I guess we're meant to assume that he picked up on it being important. That's about all he says to DJ when asking for it back.
The force awakens metacritic: 81
The last Jedi Metacritic: 86 (far too high imo but the fact remains)
You are told this
I think what a lot of people didn't like about the scriptwriting in TLJ is that things are told, not shown. Particularly when the script takes a lot of left turns, prioritizing surprises. The audience reaches a point where we are not ready to believe what we are told
The differences in opinion on TLJ largely come from those who are happy being told things, and those who want to be shown them. I for one, would've found it much more impactful if we saw what Luke was so scared of about Kylo. It makes things harder that what we as the audience see in Kylo is an unfocused, almost scared child, who isn't even sure himself which side he wants to end up on
We are the Poe Damerons. We do not like being told "there's a plan, sit back, and deal with it". We want to be shown. The movie tells us we will just make things worse if we look for answers, but the movie has a vested interest in telling us that, and isn't very convincing
Doesn't the line follows say something like "he would kill everything dear to me"?
damn you just ruined the ST's big twist. Shamelessly stolen from Lost.
It would make sense, though, I doubt they all had their armor and lightsabers at luke's academy.
Haha thanks. Still not entirely convinced about the soundness of that scene, but eh, whatever.
My charismatic ranking for the new main characters:
Kylo >>>>>>> Rey >>> Poe >> Finn >>>>>>>>>>> Rose (sorry excelsior, hahaha)
None of them even remotely close to Hamill though.
I can't! You win.I honestly had no idea so many people are into Poe. Seriously. Lol
His best scenes are with Finn and that's Boyega doing the heavy lifting.
He is a doorknob on his own and the scenes with his superiors and such here.
That crank call is so cringeworthy, mostly because of the writing but he also doesn't have the chops for it either.
Oh gosh, I just remembered, he drops the super on the nose "as long as there's still light" line too doesn't he? Pewwww
Thats 1 site,
on rotten tomatoes
TFA = 8.2
TLJ = 8.1
Metacritic has 54 reviews for TFA while RT has 375
Metacritic also has 54 reviews for TLJ while RT has 346
So yea, metacritic is missing soooo many reviews from critics