tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,822
It's Agile Development - which is really rare for a big video game developer to truly use because publishers need to budget off Waterfall [logic steps from concept > release that are based off of previous experiances]. Here, they are truly tackling unknowns in development and have to figure out how to make them work - and someones they don't even know if it will work after multiple months/years of development. I find having a real-world use case for agile fascinating, but it's not for everyone thats for sure.

I don't work in games, but I'm extremely skeptical of this characterization of most developers using Waterfall.

Every game development project I have read about is using Agile. Iterative design seems to be required in most games, simply because it is extremely hard to predict in advance whether your gameplay will be fun. There is always unknown territory in development, outside of a few exceptions like cranking out an annualized roster update or cosmetic DLC.
 

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,290
I don't work in games, but I'm extremely skeptical of this characterization of most developers using Waterfall.

Every game development project I have read about is using Agile. Iterative design seems to be required in most games, simply because it is extremely hard to predict in advance whether your gameplay will be fun. There is always unknown territory in development, outside of a few exceptions like cranking out an annualized roster update or cosmetic DLC.

Exactly. What they are doing is the polar opposite of agile. Agile means creating a functional prototype that satisfy at least one of the requirements and then iterate to improve it. Instead, they created a non-functional prototype and instead of fixing it they bolted a bunch more systems unto it so they could show something to the backers. Nothing good can come from this development process, and that's assuming they're actually trying to deliver something (I think the management stopped thinking about a release long ago and now they just want to milk the whales for as long as possible before filing for bankruptcy and disappearing).
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,382
It frustrates me how fans of this "game" set up a straw man around the idea of it being a scam. Their definition basically means that unless Chris roberts flees to Brazil with every penny stolen it cannot be a scam.

Successful scams almost never just take the money and run instantly. Bernie Madoff ran his ponzi scheme for almost 40 years, and paid out tons of cash to investors! It can both be true that:

a) There are a lot of developers working on this product, who want to see it succeed and make a real game
b) Chris Roberts is living the high life by paying himself and his family ridiculous salaries from this ongoing scam and has no intention of ever releasing a finished product.

This will never end because releasing the game is literally the worst thing they could ever do. Seriously - what incentive is there to release a finished product? Or even a half way-house? They can keep roping people in with flashy GIFs and a nice screenshot generator whilst earning more money than they ever, ever could by releasing an actual game.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
23,163
São Paulo - Brazil
It frustrates me how fans of this "game" set up a straw man around the idea of it being a scam. Their definition basically means that unless Chris roberts flees to Brazil with every penny stolen it cannot be a scam.

Successful scams almost never just take the money and run instantly. Bernie Madoff ran his ponzi scheme for almost 40 years, and paid out tons of cash to investors! It can both be true that:

a) There are a lot of developers working on this product, who want to see it succeed and make a real game
b) Chris Roberts is living the high life by paying himself and his family ridiculous salaries from this ongoing scam and has no intention of ever releasing a finished product.

This will never end because releasing the game is literally the worst thing they could ever do. Seriously - what incentive is there to release a finished product? Or even a half way-house? They can keep roping people in with flashy GIFs and a nice screenshot generator whilst earning more money than they ever, ever could by releasing an actual game.

Yes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Raticus79 question: do we know if in-game thing earned will transfer over to the final release? It would make me consider putting in more time right now if I knew my work is going to be kept. I know things usually earned in Alphas and Betas are discarded, but this is also a bit of a special case so maybe it was going to be handled differently.
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,550
Raticus79 question: do we know if in-game thing earned will transfer over to the final release? It would make me consider putting in more time right now if I knew my work is going to be kept. I know things usually earned in Alphas and Betas are discarded, but this is also a bit of a special case so maybe it was going to be handled differently.

Pretty sure everything gets wiped out regularly after big updates.
 

sandboxgod

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,919
Austin, Texas
Raticus79 question: do we know if in-game thing earned will transfer over to the final release? It would make me consider putting in more time right now if I knew my work is going to be kept. I know things usually earned in Alphas and Betas are discarded, but this is also a bit of a special case so maybe it was going to be handled differently.
Of course they are going to wipe the PTU regularly. They just did a full wipe when 3.15 dropped.

The only special case is unlike other Alphas- this (SC-PU) is a perpetual alpha that has no end in sight. This is a ride thru development hell that never ends.
 

Praetorpwj

Member
Nov 21, 2017
4,476
Ah so what, none of those people were ever going to spend that money on anything worthwhile. Let them have their fun. Everything is tribalism these days, SC just monetarised it. If it takes $25k to achieve the rank of Legatus Fuckwitius then more power to them.

These threads are pointless until the game either releases or takes the financial system down with it.
 

nampad

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,238
Would have bought the game if they would make it playable via Geforce Now.

Remember how hyped a friend of mine was back in the Kickstarter days 🤣
Fortunately, without a gaming PC I didn't jump in.
Now I am just curious how it is going, some people seem to enjoy it and I would rather see for myself then to join the hate train.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Pretty sure everything gets wiped out regularly after big updates.
Of course they are going to wipe the PTU regularly. They just did a full wipe when 3.15 dropped.

The only special case is unlike other Alphas- this (SC-PU) is a perpetual alpha that has no end in sight. This is a ride thru development hell that never ends.
I mean I figured as much but I wanted to ask anyway. Was hoping that maybe given the special circumstances it might be treated a little differently where possible, but I do understand why from a technical perspective.

It's just that it makes me wholly disinterested in doing more than downloading once every other season to see where things are and then uninstalling until the next check-in is warranted.
 

Raticus79

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,224
I mean I figured as much but I wanted to ask anyway. Was hoping that maybe given the special circumstances it might be treated a little differently where possible, but I do understand why from a technical perspective.

It's just that it makes me wholly disinterested in doing more than downloading once every other season to see where things are and then uninstalling until the next check-in is warranted.

I see it like Diablo ladder/seasons - intermittent resets with enough time in between to run through building something up. Best they could do without wrecking things for people starting day 1.
 

cyress8

"This guy are sick"
Avenger
I mean I figured as much but I wanted to ask anyway. Was hoping that maybe given the special circumstances it might be treated a little differently where possible, but I do understand why from a technical perspective.
Oddly enough, they have started splitting what need to be wiped now, so full wipes will not be a thing soon. This wipe happened after almost 2 years since the last one and it was only because it dealt with all items in the game. I doubt we will have a full wipe again anytime soon.
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,550
I see it like Diablo ladder/seasons - intermittent resets with enough time in between to run through building something up. Best they could do without wrecking things for people starting day 1.

Problem is that this day one will probably never come. As long as Chris Roberts is in charge I don't see him waking up one day and thinking "yeah that's it, every single feature I wanted is in, fully realized and integrated in an ecosystem where everything works well together, we're good, let's release the game now."

I experienced the wipes playing Elite beta, it was already pretty crushing starting from scratch all the time. Can't imagine putting up with this for years and years with no end in sight.
 

Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,257
New Zealand
I played again last night for 2 hours with zero bugs and the smoothest frame rate I've ever had.
Honestly it was amazing. If it was like that every time then I would play a lot more often than once every 6 months or so.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
Sadly enough I honestly don't even feel much of anything against Star Citizen these days. A grossly overpriced feature-crept project is innocuous compared to all the other exploitative and dangerous practices the gaming industry follows nowadays.

They made over 400 million total funding in 9 years. Fifa Ultimate Team made over half of that last year with gambling mechanics.

Funding a dream project is much more acceptable than funding a gambling addiction.
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
992
Ok may as well ask it here: Im trying to play it again right now and... how does this inventory system even work?? the old one seems to be gone and Nik Nax seems to only show me where items are. How do I equip a shirt I buy from a store? What does 'open' mean on a shirt?
 

Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,257
New Zealand
I don't think that you will find many games where developers explicitly build in game rewards exclusively for people who paid more than 25.000$.
Used to work in the mobile games industry and this is 100% a thing.
I know of a game where they made an item for one specific player, a prince who loved their game and also a certain sports team, so they made an item celebrating that team and made it cost thousands of dollars, and he bought it.
 

cyress8

"This guy are sick"
Avenger
Ok may as well ask it here: Im trying to play it again right now and... how does this inventory system even work?? the old one seems to be gone and Nik Nax seems to only show me where items are. How do I equip a shirt I buy from a store? What does 'open' mean on a shirt?
Press I to open your personal inventory. Remove your undersuit to equip regular clothing, and vice versa. On all clothing and armor, you can store things in the pockets. Like for that shirt, you can put in a candy bar or something small.

Inventory for now has pretty much stopped allowing you to carry everything at the same time. You either need to load it on your character, your backpack, and ship, if you wish to keep anything on you.
If you are incapped send out a beacon so someone can get you back on your feet or if you die go back to your dead corpse and loot it. Other players can loot your body if you left it somewhere with a decent amount of foot traffic.

Right now, looting npcs for their armor, weapons and ammo is the best way to stop from needing to buy stuff. I've been living like a bum off dead folks shit now that I got a hang of it.
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
992
Press I to open your personal inventory. Remove your undersuit to equip regular clothing, and vice versa. On all clothing and armor, you can store things in the pockets. Like for that shirt, you can put in a candy bar or something small.

Inventory for now has pretty much stopped allowing you to carry everything at the same time. You either need to load it on your character, your backpack, and ship, if you wish to keep anything on you.
If you are incapped send out a beacon so someone can get you back on your feet or if you die go back to your dead corpse and loot it. Other players can loot your body if you left it somewhere with a decent amount of foot traffic.

Right now, looting npcs for their armor, weapons and ammo is the best way to stop from needing to buy stuff. I've been living like a bum off dead folks shit now that I got a hang of it.
Ok thanks.. I never even thought to use I, why is it not in the mobiglass like everything else ._.

Regardless I think I'm done for today anyway. Couldn't even get out of the hangar. After turning the engine on the ship clipped with the wall to the side and collided until it exploded. back to the hospital again.. sigh. I'm pretty sure I've spent more time in trains in SC than in Spaceships, QT not included.
innTMKq.jpg


Edit.. ok sorry but might be the worst inventory system I've ever used xD HOW?? Why is my character suddenly pulling a massive box out of his ass instead of just putting on the damn armor?? Why can you drag drop things but not ON your character when he's wearing something else in the same slot? Why is it so extremely laggy? Why is it soo ugly?

edit2: HAHAHAHA holy shit the inventory screen clips through walls and is unusable if you open it while looking at a wall xDDD

Star citizen is really something..
 
Last edited:

cyress8

"This guy are sick"
Avenger
Ok thanks.. I never even thought to use I, why is it not in the mobiglass like everything else ._.

Regardless I think I'm done for today anyway. Couldn't even get out of the hangar. After turning the engine on the ship clipped with the wall to the side and collided until it exploded. back to the hospital again.. sigh. I'm pretty sure I've spent more time in trains in SC than in Spaceships, QT not included.
innTMKq.jpg
Go you Arena Commander and practicing flying. There really aren't any bugs with flying itself, oddly enough. Best advice is to turn down the speed limiter to as low as you can go before strafing up.

This is a common thing with people trying the game out, especially first timers. You actually need to adjust your ship and speed to smoothly enter and leave hangars because some ships sway during take off and landings.
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
992
Go you Arena Commander and practicing flying. There really aren't any bugs with flying itself, oddly enough. Best advice is to turn down the speed limiter to as low as you can go before strafing up.

This is a common thing with people trying the game out, especially first timers. You actually need to adjust your ship and speed to smoothly enter and leave hangars because some ships sway during take off and landings.
It was literally stuck in a wall.... and I'm not trying it out for the first time I'm there 2 times a year for a while now. I'm stumbling over progress resetting bugs every 5-10 minutes. Nothing in this game works even a bit.
 

Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,257
New Zealand
Go you Arena Commander and practicing flying. There really aren't any bugs with flying itself, oddly enough. Best advice is to turn down the speed limiter to as low as you can go before strafing up.

This is a common thing with people trying the game out, especially first timers. You actually need to adjust your ship and speed to smoothly enter and leave hangars because some ships sway during take off and landings.
yeah, I only play once every 6 months and getting in and out of the hangar hasn't been a problem for a long time. My main problem is missions that break, placing items that disappear and you can't finish missions, etc.
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
992
Well.. 3rd attempt the ship is floating in the air while in the hangar... unless this ship is supposed to do that but it looked buggy. Also just realized the 2 previous ships spawned 90 degrees turned pointing towards the medical room.. is that normal? may explain why it instantly clipped through the wall if it's placed with an offset and turn.
giAL9GB.jpg

86B8eFf.jpg

I still can't get over the inventory screen.. well I do like out of bounds cameras in games. So this might be fun if it's possible to deactivate the depth of field effect (:
 

cyress8

"This guy are sick"
Avenger
Well.. 3rd attempt the ship is floating in the air while in the hangar... unless this ship is supposed to do that but it looked buggy. Also just realized the 2 previous ships spawned 90 degrees turned pointing towards the medical room.. is that normal? may explain why it instantly clipped through the wall if it's placed with an offset and turn.
giAL9GB.jpg

86B8eFf.jpg

I still can't get over the inventory screen.. well I do like out of bounds cameras in games. So this might be fun if it's possible to deactivate the depth of field effect (:
The nomad has gravlev and looks just right. :D It is uses gravlev for its landing system.
Your inventory is also fine the undersuit does not have anyway to store items so it will not show. Need some armor pieces. You are also standing in front of a wall.
 

Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,257
New Zealand
Well.. 3rd attempt the ship is floating in the air while in the hangar... unless this ship is supposed to do that but it looked buggy. Also just realized the 2 previous ships spawned 90 degrees turned pointing towards the medical room.. is that normal? may explain why it instantly clipped through the wall if it's placed with an offset and turn.
giAL9GB.jpg

86B8eFf.jpg

I still can't get over the inventory screen.. well I do like out of bounds cameras in games. So this might be fun if it's possible to deactivate the depth of field effect (:
This is the first iteration of the new inventory screen BTW, it has only gone public in the last couple of weeks so there are bound to be things that need adjustment
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,451
400 mil over 9 years is like 44 million a year.
It's still probably more productive than the money that went into EA's FUT and other ultimate team loot boxes given the core product is just recycled stat updates.
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,301
I checked this out during the current free period, and boy, it seems glitchy AF, but wow... I love the ships. The world and the ships are pretty much exactly what I am looking for. I love in-game signs and screens that show useful information you can interact with. I've like in game touch-screen computers since I first used them in Doom 3. The ship mechanics are complex, but not too complex, more like sim-lite, like a mechwarrior game. And the big ships that you can walk around in are just stunning. Some friends and I tried out the Valkyrie and the Constellation. Watching the Constellation land and then deploy the cargo lift was stunning.

Some of my favorite highlights:
  • I rescued a crewmate from a space walk gone awry by moving in close with the Constellation, lowering the smaller airlock lift, getting him and, and raising the lift.
  • I rescued a second crewmate who was running out of oxygen by detaching the auxiliary fighter craft from the Constellation and using it to go and get him, and get him inside the cockpit so I could stay outside in my undamaged suit and wait for a pickup.
  • On a hostile atmosphere world, a crewmate became incapacitated. I didn't have any healing items, but he said he had about 90 minutes of "time till death" timer, so I tried to drag him back to the ship, but kept dropping him. On the third time I tried to drag him again, I accidentally took of his helmet. He commented that his "time till death" had suddenly dropped to about 40 seconds. I couldn't figure out how to put his helmet back on, and I couldn't seem to drop it either. Another crewmate came over and started dragging him quickly back to the ship. Just when we were almost there, he dropped him, and our incapacitated crewmate seemed to smack his head on the bottom of the cargo ramp, and was dead.
  • I tried to use the ships comm system to hail the spaceport at New Babbage, but accidently turned the power off. At the time I didn't know you could just press "I" to turn it back on: I was frantically mousing over the controls trying to find out how to turn the power on, all while plummeting towards the surface.
  • After dying, I took a smaller ship back from New Babbage to meet the rest of the crew (who were still in the Constellation) on the delivery pickup planet. I made it there first. Standing there watching as the giant Constellation approached, slowed, descended for smooth landing, and then lowered the cargo elevator to have an Ursa rover drive off, was a magnificent site. I can't recall playing another game that has done something like that.
There was a bunch of other hilarity that happened all night, wind flipping ships end over end, crashing into the space station while trying to dock because I forgot to turn off cruise control, and others.

Anyway, very glitchy game with bad performance, I can't say I recommend this game, but it sure was a heck of a fun time and I can't wait to log back in :D
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
992
Yaay I'm finally at orison. It's 2:40 AM, I'm tired as hell and all of this took forever, I hate this game will play again tomorrow :D

Sorry for maybe coming across a bit harsh. The game really gets some of the quiet atmosphere while approaching stations with cool planets as backdrops. And it still looks very nice (well static things at least) Shame about everything else. I'm already curious if the inventory screen will be in the same state in 6-12 months of if they will actually make some quick progress.. Starmap cough cough...
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
97,891
I don't think calling it a scam is correct, it's what happens when you give someone high on their own supply a unlimited budget and no oversight.

I am pretty sure you would get something similar if you gave Jawmuncher the dinocrisis rights and a blank check.
 

Dremorak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,257
New Zealand
I don't think calling it a scam is correct, it's what happens when you give someone high on their own supply a unlimited budget and no oversight.

I am pretty sure you would get something similar if you gave Jawmuncher the dinocrisis rights and a blank check.
yeah this is a more accurate take IMO. Its feature creep with zero checks and balances.
I think at a certain point they decided they would just go nuts with it and be the biggest craziest simulation there is, even if it take 15+ years to get there. I just wish they would stop giving estimates and just say it'll be done when its done, but I guess its hard to go back now and say that after giving lots of hard dates in the past and missing them.
 

zoozilla

Avenger
Jun 9, 2018
578
Japan
Development hell != scam.

It's obvious they bit off more than they could chew when starting this project but the people who say this is a scam are ridiculous.

I bet they blew most of the money during development on prototypes/talent/restarts etc and are not cash rich but are steadily paying staff with the constant player investment.

They must have a goal for the game but I doubt they have the ability to meet that goal.

I mean, if that's the case the responsible thing to do would be set a hard release date and just release what they have.

I don't think anyone doubts that the game is in development in some way or another. What makes it scam-like is the fact that they are still taking people's money. After raising over 400 million. How is that okay?

The fact that most of that money comes from people buying expensive virtual ships is another issue entirely.
 

Velorath

Member
Feb 28, 2018
105
It frustrates me how fans of this "game" set up a straw man around the idea of it being a scam. Their definition basically means that unless Chris roberts flees to Brazil with every penny stolen it cannot be a scam.

I don't even think it's a scam in that Chris Roberts doesn't intend on delivering a finished product, I think it's a scam in that he consistently and knowingly misrepresented progress on both SC and S42 in order to keep funding going. There's no way I will ever believe SC fans assertions that it's just Roberts' wild optimism that has had him projecting S42 as about 1-2 years away consistently for the past 5 or 6 years.

One of the other big issues in that regard is that CIG in general seemed to have avoided nailing down a lot of details so that the game has an "all things to all people" draw to it. To really define what this game is going to be would inevitably alienate a lot of the people that have invested years into believing this is their dream game. As an example, looting via PvP was recently enabled in SC, which allowed people to lose items they had paid real money for. It rapidly became clear that CIG didn't have a concrete plan for how players would be able to get their items back. CIG had some half-formed ideas but at the end of the day their answer was basically "we're in alpha so reset your account or wait until the next patch to get your stuff back". The fact that for 9 years they've known they were going to implement PvP, looting, and real money purchases in their game and never came up with an actual plan as to how those things would interact speaks volumes about how this game is being put together.

There's a notion that CIG is wait for the technology to catch up to the design, but the reality seems to be that they don't even really have the design ready. Of course they're also hedging on the technology side as well like when they acknowledge that even after they eventually get their server meshing working that it could be a long time if ever that they would be able to implement it in a way that allowed for everyone to play on the same server rather than having regional shards. How does that affect all their grand plans for how their economy would work or any number of other systems? Who knows.
 

Deleted member 93841

User-requested account closure
Banned
Mar 17, 2021
4,580
yeah this is a more accurate take IMO. Its feature creep with zero checks and balances.
I think at a certain point they decided they would just go nuts with it and be the biggest craziest simulation there is, even if it take 15+ years to get there. I just wish they would stop giving estimates and just say it'll be done when its done, but I guess its hard to go back now and say that after giving lots of hard dates in the past and missing them.

That's the thing - the moment they say that it will be done when it's done, their sales are probably going to start drying up. When it's constantly 1-2 years away, gullible people who want to believe might keep throwing money at them.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,610
I don't think calling it a scam is correct, it's what happens when you give someone high on their own supply a unlimited budget and no oversight.

I am pretty sure you would get something similar if you gave Jawmuncher the dinocrisis rights and a blank check.
The thing is that this being the case isn't mutually exclusive with it also being a scam, which is the thing that kinda goes for a lot of the ways people try to defend how this project is going.

It can be an actual product while also being a scam.
It can be something that people have fun with while also being a scam.
It can be something that is in development hell while also being a scam.
It can be something that Chris Taylor truly believes/believed in while also being a scam.

I've said this in the past, but I don't think it was necessarily a scam when it started, nor do I think everyone involved is intending for it to be scam. I do genuinely believe there was a time that Chris Taylor genuinely wanted to make one final stab at bringing his dream game to life while also reviving what was then an extremely dead genre (myself and my buddy that was also really into those games wouldn't have gone in together on kickstarting a couple packages otherwise!). At the same time, it is incredibly silly to at least handwave away all of the signs of it at least having become a scam (not that I am accusing you of this, but others have historically done even this).

Kotaku wrote an article.

I quote:
For all the awful stuff Kotaku has done lately, that is pretty minor, especially in context of the rest of the article.
 

sandboxgod

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,919
Austin, Texas
For all the awful stuff Kotaku has done lately, that is pretty minor, especially in context of the rest of the article.
I have no idea what you mean

I checked this out during the current free period, and boy, it seems glitchy AF, but wow... I love the ships. ...

Anyway, very glitchy game with bad performance, I can't say I recommend this game, but it sure was a heck of a fun time and I can't wait to log back in :D

You seem like a new backer. Pro tip- avoid looking at the roadmap. This will help you avoid inevitable disappointment when they miss targets (such as Salvaging being punted along the roadmap an entire 5-8 times or something for years straight). Their management is abyssmal. It is safe to watch Inside Star Citizen episodes but just take what they say at face value. For example, when they say "we are adding a new Cargo area". Dont assume that means they will add new gameplay (because they wont). They will just add the base art assets.

Also yes the ships are great. CIG employs amazing artists. They have an army of them. It's the management and their programming prowess that is questionable.
 

Deleted member 93841

User-requested account closure
Banned
Mar 17, 2021
4,580
I've said this in the past, but I don't think it was necessarily a scam when it started, nor do I think everyone involved is intending for it to be scam. I do genuinely believe there was a time that Chris Taylor genuinely wanted to make one final stab at bringing his dream game to life while also reviving what was then an extremely dead genre (myself and my buddy that was also really into those games wouldn't have gone in together on kickstarting a couple packages otherwise!). At the same time, it is incredibly silly to at least handwave away all of the signs of it at least having become a scam (not that I am accusing you of this, but others have historically done even this).

I wouldn't even stop at silly. At this point it's downright irresponsible to handwave the problems, especially if it might mean other people spend their money on this. People who still recommend others to buy into the project are part of the problem, imo. Even the most stalwart of fans should have realised years ago that the situation with Star Citizen is no longer okay.

Personally, I still hope the game actually comes out and Roberts can realise his dream, but you won't catch me downplaying the problem or telling other people that they should spend their money on the game.