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Kirbivore

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,935
Square is not doing itself any favors with this response. However one could interpret this as a wait and see how the markets handle the news kinda responce. All I know is the Dragon Quest name needs all the traction it can get in the West. The company is going to have to take a clear stance on this issue sooner or later, especially if it affects money the company could make.

I'm still not on this boat considering how rocky the sales support is for the series in general. The best selling ones tend to have some great form of marketing behind it but other is generally pretty lacking for other games. There are frankly, more factors involved here on if XI fails.
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
Can they really not ignore it? The Japanese don't care and the west doesn't care about Dragon Quest. Even if DQ11 will sell less copies because some people boycott the game Enix will blame that on the fact that the west doesn't like JRPG's.

The best we can hope for is that he retires or decides not to work on DQ12.

Even if he retires he still gets royalties there's only one way he's not getting money to fund his war denial shit from DQ being sold.
 
Oct 29, 2017
924
Australia
Meh. I'm still there day 1. Hundreds of people are involved in AAA games. For every homophobe I'm making rich, there's another wonderful person who needs and deserves my money.

I understand this guy is a public figure and should be made an example of, but he's in a pretty untouchable position. We can only hope the family that inherits his fortune is less hateful.
 

i-Jest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,015
I'm still not on this boat considering how rocky the sales support is for the series in general. The best selling ones tend to have some great form of marketing behind it but other is generally pretty lacking for other games. There are frankly, more factors involved here on if XI fails.

What factors those be?
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,716
Philadelphia, PA
Can they really not ignore it? The Japanese don't care and the west doesn't care about Dragon Quest. Even if DQ11 will sell less copies because some people boycott the game Enix will blame that on the fact that the west doesn't like JRPG's.

The best we can hope for is that he retires or decides not to work on DQ12.

Considering how long each mainline Dragon Quest game takes to come out. There is a possibility that DQXI is the last game Sugiyama actually works on. He's 87 years old, and there was a 5 year gap between the initial release of DQX (2012) and XI (2017)

So unless Sugiyama has written material in advance to be used for future games. The next DQ game being another 5 years from now would mean Sugiyama would be 92. It remains to be seen if actually lives to see that day.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Meh. I'm still there day 1. Hundreds of people are involved in AAA games. For every homophobe I'm making rich, there's another wonderful person who needs and deserves my money.

I understand this guy is a public figure and should be made an example of, but he's in a pretty untouchable position. We can only hope the family that inherits his fortune is less hateful.

Then buy another Square Enix game. It's not like they only make DQs...
 

Kirbivore

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,935
What factors those be?

Release date, lack luster promotion, Despite the "we are going to grow the franchise" chime, their release pattern doesnt support this, in light of Octopaths success, and the general sales rep and poor handling in the west since its inception.

Edit: I forgot to mention not doing well in keeping up support in the west while Japan regularly got new games released
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,716
Philadelphia, PA
What factors those be?

There some that believe that Spiderman is taking away from DQXI's attention.

I don't think RPG fans looking forward to the next big RPG are the same folks looking forward the next Open World Superhero Action game. Both games are two completely different genres catering to two completely different audiences.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,062
There some that believe that Spiderman is taking away from DQXI's attention.

I don't think RPG fans looking forward to the next big RPG are the same folks looking forward the next Open World Superhero Action game. Both games are two completely different genres catering to two completely different audiences.

I mean, I'm getting Spidey instead of DQXI and I'm a giant RPG fan. But that's because I find Dragon Quest agonizingly boring and slow. But if I didn't find Dragon Quest such agony to actually play through, I would 100% be skipping it as a means of saying fuck you to Sugiyama.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,383
Then you will never play a Square Enix game ever again because there is no way they'll drop him.

Man, I feel this will be the last DQ game will be coming to the west due to this. Smh. I WANT MY DQXII AND DQIII:R

He's 87. He may not even be around by the time we get XII.

Really though, a boycott isn't going to change anything. He's co-owner of the IP, and Squeenix isn't going to kill off the franchise. Doesn't mean the decision to not buy is wrong though. It's just a simple moral decision to not give the bad man your money.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,197
The music is so garbage. What a dumb thing to go to bat for.

Mad respect to everybody who takes a pass on this one. I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but I don't think this hateful old fossil is going to factor into my decision much.

I think it'd be a much different case if it were somebody more integral to the production, and I'd be completely out if this viewpoint cropped up in the game (hopefully everybody here also passed hard on Persona 5).
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,446
Release date, lack luster promotion, Despite the "we are going to grow the franchise" chime, their release pattern doesnt support this, in light of Octopaths success, and the general sales rep and poor handling in the west since its inception.

They talked about this in a recent episode of Easy Allies frame trap. One point that was brought up is that DQ11 missed the boat. If DQ11 had come out in July/early August it wouldn't have had that much competition.

Now it's going to have to compete with Spider-Man, Yakuza and other heavy hitters.
 

Setzer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
932
PNW
Meh. I'm still there day 1. Hundreds of people are involved in AAA games. For every homophobe I'm making rich, there's another wonderful person who needs and deserves my money.

Exactly how I feel plus I want to see the DQ series succeed out West so we can get future DQ games localized. Still plan on buying multiple copies of the game.

Hopefully this is the last DQ game Sugiyama is involved with.
 

Filament Star

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,817
Did people really expect more than this? They're a business, not a forum.
 
Jun 9, 2018
58
I'll still enjoy the game i don't care about some random guy at SE's beliefs.. Not like he's my bowling partner or anything.
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,493
I'm not sure they can remove him without losing all of the legacy music that contributes to the brand identity, since he seems to have the rights to a ton of it :/

It's a really messy situation, where they literally might have to wait for him to die, and a shame he's associated with an overwhelmingly wholesome series.

At the very least his views don't seem to have bled into his work (I wonder how they described Sylvia to him, since he even gave a couple of his scenes pretty wonderful, new tracks).
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,505
They talked about this in a recent episode of Easy Allies frame trap. One point that was brought up is that DQ11 missed the boat. If DQ11 had come out in July/early August it wouldn't have had that much competition.

Now it's going to have to compete with Spider-Man, Yakuza and other heavy hitters.

I mean... it would compete with Octopath? I guess you can say PS4 owners are a different audience, but there's going to be some overlap.
 

duckroll

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,254
Singapore
I'm not sure they can remove him without losing all of the legacy music that contributes to the brand identity, since he seems to have the rights to a ton of it :/
They can't. His hold over the music is pretty ironclad. Has his own company managing it too. The silver lining is that there are two absolutes in life - death and taxes.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Even if he retires he still gets royalties there's only one way he's not getting money to fund his war denial shit from DQ being sold.

Yeah, that's what will happen when he retires. Sugiyama not composing DQ don't mean that he's not going to get money from it since he has the copyright. Same for when he dies since the rights would be on his company and the people on there probably have the same mindset like him. There's no win situation if the problem is money going to him.

Release date, lack luster promotion, Despite the "we are going to grow the franchise" chime, their release pattern doesnt support this, in light of Octopaths success, and the general sales rep and poor handling in the west since its inception.

Edit: I forgot to mention not doing well in keeping up support in the west while Japan regularly got new games released

You nailed it. And that without considering that many of the points that are strong to the japanese audience aren't with westerns because the franchise never picked up in the past for many reasons.

But to be fair, DQ8 and DQ9 did very well with more than 1 million outside of japan, which for many franchises would be great since many of those that reach 1 million count Japan+West. Anyway, it's wait and see.
 

Deleted member 4375

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
973
User banned (1 week): downplaying homophobia
I love the series and the man's music is a huge reason as to why I do. Don't give a damn about his personal views. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I want the series to continue to exist outside of Japan, so I'm still going to buy every single DQ game that comes here. The only way Sugiyama is leaving DQ is by his own will or retirement.

I'm honestly surprised that SE even acknowledged this recent issue with him, but they're a company out to make money at the end of the day. Sugiyama makes them a lot of said money so unless he flat out murders someone in broad daylight on national TV, he's not going anywhere anytime soon.
 

Aniki

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,808
Can they really not ignore it? The Japanese don't care and the west doesn't care about Dragon Quest. Even if DQ11 will sell less copies because some people boycott the game Enix will blame that on the fact that the west doesn't like JRPG's.

The best we can hope for is that he retires or decides not to work on DQ12.
I think the game will get a lot of scrutiny when it releases here. Having an person so closely associated with your game say all these toxic things won't be just ignored. Not in today's climate. How Square will respond to this is a whole nother story. We will see come release day.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,569
I love the series and the man's music is a huge reason as to why I do. Don't give a damn about his personal views. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I want the series to continue to exist outside of Japan, so I'm still going to buy every single DQ game that comes here. The only way Sugiyama is leaving DQ is by his own will or retirement.

I'm honestly surprised that SE even acknowledged this recent issue with him, but they're a company out to make money at the end of the day. Sugiyama makes them a lot of said money so unless he flat out murders someone in broad daylight on national TV, he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions...that gay people committing suicide is funny....hmm
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,493
Yeah, that's what will happen when he retires. Sugiyama not composing DQ don't mean that he's not going to get money from it since he has the copyright. Same for when he dies since the rights would be on his company and the people on there probably have the same mindset like him. There's no win situation if the problem is money going to him.



You nailed it. And that without considering that many of the points that are strong to the japanese audience aren't with westerns because the franchise never picked up in the past for many reasons.

But to be fair, DQ8 and DQ9 did very well with more than 1 million outside of japan, which for many franchises would be great since many of those that reach 1 million count Japan+West. Anyway, it's wait and see.
To add to your last point, Dragon Quest Builders recently performed very well outside of Japan. There's a chance that opens up a bunch of new folks to experimenting with the mainline games.
 

TaleSpun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,449
Still, I say it's something especially for those who thought it would do no good bringing it up. They're going to be thinking of this when development of DQXII starts.

It's a nothing statement, let alone an indication it'll be any sort of consideration in the future. I don't think people were being overly cynical in previous threads; Sugiyama is an elder statesmen at SE and if his antics were going to get him fired or even quietly forced out, they would've years ago.
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,396
I wasn't expecting anything better from them.
Still buying for the switch Because I love the series however, but he'll be dead at some point so w/e
 

Deleted member 11421

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,935
There some that believe that Spiderman is taking away from DQXI's attention.

I don't think RPG fans looking forward to the next big RPG are the same folks looking forward the next Open World Superhero Action game. Both games are two completely different genres catering to two completely different audiences.

Based on my own "IRL" experiences in recent years, audiences aren't as limited as they used to be. Most people tend to be open to more than one genre, but timing does matter, especially in regards to the people actually buying full priced games consistently.
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
You know guys when you say you dont care that he funds anti lgbtq politicans as long as you get your games that says a lot about you as a person. Maybe don't be so transparent about your shitty views eh?
 

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
Can SE even fire him? They will have to stop using any music he composed, which goes back to the 80s. They will have to replace the music of every DQ on shelf. Like how Rockstar delete music from GTA, difference is it's not a few songs, but the whole soundtrack. Realistically there's nothing SE can do.

I mean....they're serious allegations and them doing nothing but still acknowledging the serious allegations is a bad look.
They know it's a bad look, and they will just roll with it. Other options are even more damaging to them.

Do you have sources on this? I think the situation changes completely if he really is proactively working towards achieving whatever things his ideology proposes.
He put ads that deny Imperial Japan's war crimes on big western newspapers, with his own money. He's definitely not just a "talker".

If SE came tomorrow and said "Sugiyama is an homophobe and a war denier, we can't allow keep working with someone with such hateful ideas" (paraphrasing), I doubt it would suffer that big of a backslash or at least a great part of the population would not support.

I want to think that most japanese wouldn't allow someone to laugh at the idea of LGBT taking their own lives and being useless to society and that war deniers are mmostly looked with bad eyes.
I see you don't know Japan well. The biggest reaction will be "pathetic foreigners ruined out national treasure". Why do you think he can make such outrageous statements in the first place if the society is so against them?
 
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Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,493
You know guys when you say you dont care that he funds anti lgbtq politicans as long as you get your games that says a lot about you as a person. Maybe don't be so transparent about your shitty views eh?
It's more complicated than that, since hundreds of other people worked on this game too, and it even has a surprisingly well done lgbtq character for a Japanese game.

Like, yeah. It's a messy topic. I can't really fault anyone on either side of the issue (who won't buy it due to his involvement, or will buy it in spite of it).
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,223
I love the series and the man's music is a huge reason as to why I do. Don't give a damn about his personal views. Everyone is entitled to their opinions..

You know, there are plenty of people who find what he has said absolutely repulsive and will still buy DQXI. You don't have to come into this thread taking up for the old fart because you like the game/series. Unless you feel it so necessary to out your homophobia or apathy to homophobia.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,139
Acknowledging this and giving a response is a simple but necessary first step! Like they coulda buried their heads in the sand and said nothing, as opposed to outwardly saying almost nothing as they did by responding. Movement regarding this situation was never gonna be a 0 to 100 thing. Up to them, journalists, an fans to keep it rolling however. And maybe the off chance Sugiyama has an end of life revelation that he's been a massive scumbag and decides to help make things right before the end but thats just wishful thinking.
 

OmegaDL50

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,716
Philadelphia, PA
You know where you stand on this situation and you decide you don't want to separate the art from the artist and as a result won't buy the game. That's entirely fair, it's a much more reasonable approach compared to some who will outright criticize and make the implication because some can separate the art from the artist take this as being in support of the words and actions of Sugiyama, but you didn't take the reasonable approach, you decided to take the passive aggressive one and decide that everyone planning on buying DQXI is as bad as Sugiyama is, FOH.

Pretty tired of this thought that we have to take a high road that reaches the fucking moon or we're "just as bad as them." because folks are going to buy the game. No, we will never be just as bad as him. Soon enough his hatred can stop being spread in the quickest way possible, considering he's 87 years old, that'll be soon enough.
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
It's more complicated than that, since hundreds of other people worked on this game too, and it even has a surprisingly well done lgbtq character for a Japanese game.

Like, yeah. It's a messy topic. I can't really fault anyone on either side of the issue (who won't buy it due to his involvement, or will buy it in spite of it).
No it's not complicated at all. By buying the game knowing he funds japans version of holocaust deniers and anti lgbtq and he earns a fair bit more than most people on the game most likely. Your are funding those causes indirectly.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
that's a statement alright. but i feel like any other time SE would never have bothered to address it, nor would they have had to from the Japanese branch..this is a positive step forward.

the vilification of minorities(sexual or otherwise) from bigots is being seen by too many eyes now to be ignored
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,682
I love the series and the man's music is a huge reason as to why I do. Don't give a damn about his personal views. Everyone is entitled to their opinions

Wow.

Nothing like gleefully supporting the people who think all LGBT+ people should kill themselves because they're worthless.

That's a hell of a thing to stan for. But that's a pretty common thing about gamers. Whatever and wherever, as long as I get to play the video game.
 

duckroll

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,254
Singapore
Luke-warm Takes:
- It's good that S-E acknowledged this. The statement itself says nothing, but responding to the matter puts it on the record that they are aware of it and that they feel the issue people take with his actions are serious enough to warrant a company response rather than just ignoring it.

- Sugiyama is a piece of trash.

- I have no problems with people continuing to buy Dragon Quest or anything, everyone makes personal choices on where to draw the line when it comes to consumerism.

- Sugiyama is a vile turd.

- I do take issue with people who want people to know that they don't care about "personal views" or whatever. It's okay to literally not care about these things, it's another thing to care enough about the matter to go into a thread to post telling people proudly that you don't care. That says something else entirely.

- Sugiyama can fuck off.
 
OP
OP
Choppasmith

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,416
Beaumont, CA
I love the series and the man's music is a huge reason as to why I do. Don't give a damn about his personal views. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I want the series to continue to exist outside of Japan, so I'm still going to buy every single DQ game that comes here. The only way Sugiyama is leaving DQ is by his own will or retirement.

I'm honestly surprised that SE even acknowledged this recent issue with him, but they're a company out to make money at the end of the day. Sugiyama makes them a lot of said money so unless he flat out murders someone in broad daylight on national TV, he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Way to be the Legendary Hero in this thread...

:/
 
Oct 29, 2017
316
Paris
At least i won't be wainting for FF7 RE.

killing kingdom hearts 3's promo, at 1st, then DQ11 using tweeter and FB with the help of all the wonderfull LGTB communuty and the millions of gay unicorns friendly is gonna be a lot of fun. Choose is simple: feed Square-Enix the anti LGTBQ+ or f##ck the monster #inyouass #stophomophobia #HomophobiaNotMyChoiceUnlikeSquare

Just to make it clear, homophobia kills actual people, ain't no fantasy. Aren't there movies with actors changed due to sexual scandal? Is it that hard to get an.other musician in 2018?
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Impressed ANN was the one that managed to get a statement out of Square Enix. And the statement was exactly what I was expecting, a whole lot of nothing.

Screw Sugiyama.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,304
I mean, I wasn't expecting them to say anything, really.

Like they said, it's just an awful guy and does not represent the entire team that worked on DQXI.

I could never imagine myself not playing a game on release date just for 1 person.
If the company itself is nasty, that's another story but that is not the case so oh well.
"This old man doesn't like gay people so fuck the entire team that's been forced to work with him." If you boycotted every business that has a racist, bigot, anti-LGBT member you'd have to build your own house and grow your own food. I respect someone willing to sacrifice a little of their own entertainment to make a statement by not buying the game but that old man and those couple of Square management members are a tiny portion of the team that have poured blood, sweat, tears, and time into this game to entertain us. This board always bemoans when a studio or development team is shuttered due to mismanagement and always comes around and posts a bunch of, "It's not their fault, they didn't deserve this!" "The team shouldn't be punished for mismanagement by a few, hope they land on their feet!" and then turn around and make these statements.