It has easily been their worst generation from a First Party standpoint since the inception of the division. He's not going to outright say it, but he'll certainly allude to it as he did in that quote.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Spencer: Xbox Has to Mean Quality Games; We’ve Got Work to do There, Our First Party Output Hasn’t Been the Best
- Thread starter RevengeTaken
- Start date
It has easily been their worst generation from a First Party standpoint since the inception of the division. He's not going to outright say it, but he'll certainly allude to it as he did in that quote.
Nintendo in 2018:
- New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe
- Yoshi's Crafted World
- Labo VR Kit 5
- Super Mario Maker 2
- Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3
- Fire Emblem: Three Houses
- Astral Chain
- Daemon X Machina
- Link's Awakening
- Luigi's Mansion 3
- Pokémon Sword and Shield
I doubt Microsoft will release more games in a year than Nintendo, even if the long-term future, because Nintendo publish smaller games than Sony or Microsoft.
My bet (metascore) :
Gears 5 - 87
Gears Tactics - 81
Halo Infinite - 94
Battletoads - 61
Ori WotW - 91
Psychonauts 2 - 87
Wasteland 3 - 87
Wasteland 1 Remaster - 81
The Bard's Tale IV - 78
The Outer Worlds - 89
Bleeding Edge - 58
MS Flight Simulator 82
Age of Empires 2 & 3 DE - 73 & 69
Minecraft Dungeons - 78
I think the back and forth argument in this thread boils down to:
"It's all talk..."
"But they've bought studios..."
"Until they buy studios capable of making God of War or Spider-Man it's all talk..."
The argument is now boring. We all want different things and maybe we should all just accept that. For some consumers, it's enough. For others, it's not close. Depends on your priorities. Shouldn't pawn off our priorities on each other. Xbox is doing more than they were. That's factual. Everything else is subjective.
"It's all talk..."
"But they've bought studios..."
"Until they buy studios capable of making God of War or Spider-Man it's all talk..."
The argument is now boring. We all want different things and maybe we should all just accept that. For some consumers, it's enough. For others, it's not close. Depends on your priorities. Shouldn't pawn off our priorities on each other. Xbox is doing more than they were. That's factual. Everything else is subjective.
I do agree with this. I've been primarily gaming on Xbox since November 2001 when it launched. There has been no magic in their 1st/2nd party since about 2009.
All that said, my favorite exclusives between all 3 platforms this gen have been:
1. Game Pass
2. Elite Controller
3. Enhanced backwards compatibility
Lots of people are either overly apologetic about their issues or completely ignore some great things about the platform. This gen has been about as mixed for one platform as I can ever remember.
Well it´s Phil Spencer himself that is saying that he doesnt think their output "hasnt been the best".
So yeah for some their current output can be enough, for many others and the head of the Xbox Team it´s not.
And it´s not people fault if they want to take the wait and see aproach with MS...because for a whole gen for a lot of people and for the Xbox tem head their output "hasnt been the best".
It´s cool to have faith in his words, actions ( yes they exist ) and intentions but while all of this doesnt translate into games it´s natural that people, specially those not invested into the MS ecosystem, doesnt give them/him the benefit of doubt.
The fact that they are doing more than they were havent changed yet the fact that their output, that it´s what matters for consumers/gamers, so far "hasnt been the best".
I am not a big fan of Spencer and his 'WE MUST DO BETTER' rhetoric going on for six years now, but he has since brought the receipts and has shown he's serious about building up a first party portfolio.
The only problem is that he took too long and cancelled games that didnt need to be cancelled. had the coalation new ip not been cancelled, had he not cancelled fable 4, had he not cancelled scalebound, he wouldnt have been in this situation in the first place and xbox owners who arent in love with the brand would've been a whole lot happier with their purchase.
So what's next? I hope he learns from shoving multiplayer into single player games like Sunset and Fable and you know NOT do that. i hope he ditches gears and halo, two franchises with zero characters that can be taken seriously as dramatic characters. As iconic as Master Chief is, he's basically a mute protaganist. they tried pairing him up with Cortana to get a nice romance going and it fell flat. Now they are trying to get people invested into the gears cast but its really fucking hard.
Go small with characters, start fresh and ditch the big aging franchises. Sony devs have shown how you can take big ideas like a zombie game, a post apocalyptic scifi game and a norse mythology game and just make it intimate story about finding out who you are. i swear to god i dont remember a single character's name in the last two halo games.
With next gen, i think they are in a fantastic position to really set the standard for next gen games. They have two shooter studios and one RPG studio. That's going to be their big advantage over Sony which has sadly pigeonholed itself into third person action adventure games. But MS has to innovate and set the standard like Halo CE did back in the day. they need to have games that look and play like nothing else on the market. With Halo being cross gen and gears releasing this late, i dont know if thats possible but they do have 13 other studios who can fill in the gap at the start of this gen with some truly unique titles. Sony will come at MS with the full force of gorgeous looking setpiece and cutscene heavy games, but MS can counter with games that truly take advantage of the massive CPU and SSD jumps.
I thought this e3 was the perfect time for MS to really show us their next gen vision but they just showed us a cross gen cutscene. maybe they are not ready, but i hope for their sake they offer gamers truly unique gameplay experiences ubisoft, ea and activision have refused to give us this gen and i suspect they will continue to do that next gen. MS needs to take up the mantle next gen. I became team Sony back at the start of the PS3 gen when their backs were against the wall and they started producing one great exclusive after another. everyone raves about 2009, but to me 2007 was Sony's coming out party. Motorstorm, heavenly sword, warhawk, uncharted, ratchet all releasing in one year and while they werent the best games out that year, they convinced me that Sony could create quality games despite hitting rock bottom. MS can do the same starting next gen.
The only problem is that he took too long and cancelled games that didnt need to be cancelled. had the coalation new ip not been cancelled, had he not cancelled fable 4, had he not cancelled scalebound, he wouldnt have been in this situation in the first place and xbox owners who arent in love with the brand would've been a whole lot happier with their purchase.
So what's next? I hope he learns from shoving multiplayer into single player games like Sunset and Fable and you know NOT do that. i hope he ditches gears and halo, two franchises with zero characters that can be taken seriously as dramatic characters. As iconic as Master Chief is, he's basically a mute protaganist. they tried pairing him up with Cortana to get a nice romance going and it fell flat. Now they are trying to get people invested into the gears cast but its really fucking hard.
Go small with characters, start fresh and ditch the big aging franchises. Sony devs have shown how you can take big ideas like a zombie game, a post apocalyptic scifi game and a norse mythology game and just make it intimate story about finding out who you are. i swear to god i dont remember a single character's name in the last two halo games.
With next gen, i think they are in a fantastic position to really set the standard for next gen games. They have two shooter studios and one RPG studio. That's going to be their big advantage over Sony which has sadly pigeonholed itself into third person action adventure games. But MS has to innovate and set the standard like Halo CE did back in the day. they need to have games that look and play like nothing else on the market. With Halo being cross gen and gears releasing this late, i dont know if thats possible but they do have 13 other studios who can fill in the gap at the start of this gen with some truly unique titles. Sony will come at MS with the full force of gorgeous looking setpiece and cutscene heavy games, but MS can counter with games that truly take advantage of the massive CPU and SSD jumps.
I thought this e3 was the perfect time for MS to really show us their next gen vision but they just showed us a cross gen cutscene. maybe they are not ready, but i hope for their sake they offer gamers truly unique gameplay experiences ubisoft, ea and activision have refused to give us this gen and i suspect they will continue to do that next gen. MS needs to take up the mantle next gen. I became team Sony back at the start of the PS3 gen when their backs were against the wall and they started producing one great exclusive after another. everyone raves about 2009, but to me 2007 was Sony's coming out party. Motorstorm, heavenly sword, warhawk, uncharted, ratchet all releasing in one year and while they werent the best games out that year, they convinced me that Sony could create quality games despite hitting rock bottom. MS can do the same starting next gen.
I will say that for the first time since the early days of Xbox 360 when Microsoft was firing on all cylinders, I'm legitimately excited about the future of Xbox.
It's almost like acquiring new studios as well as making new games takes a lot of time.
Except I'm not saying it doesnt. But hearing him say it every year gets tiring.
Gamers: Gears 4 wasn't great this might be the time to stop. Where's Halo and or Banjo?
Microsoft: Are youse hyped for Gear 5 and Gears Funko?? We canceled Scalebound.
Gamers: No.
Microsoft: Are youse hyped for Gear 5 and Gears Funko?? We canceled Scalebound.
Gamers: No.
Last edited:
The argument is stupid because both "sides" are essentially correct.
It's perfectly reasonable to be optimistic and excited about Xbox's future output potential, and to expect great things from them.
It's also perfectly reasonable to be hesitant and want to actually have a number of great games released at a solid clip in hand before deciding that MS's first party has really turned itself around.
There are no facts in dispute here. It just comes down to personal feelings and how much faith you are willing to extend.
So why is everyone yelling at each other?
I think, if all goes right, Microsoft's first party output will be formidable by the end of next generation.
They have nowhere to go but up for sure, but some people are acting like they're going to instantly start putting out top-tier megahits. I can't see that happening so soon. It's going to take a while.
What?
They have nowhere to go but up for sure, but some people are acting like they're going to instantly start putting out top-tier megahits. I can't see that happening so soon. It's going to take a while.
What?
You're talking about 2 different things. Acknowledging the past and what they're doing about it. If you fall into the camp that it's all talk and they haven't really addressed the issue until they buy a bigger developer than what they've purchased so far (or just want to wait and see the games), you're entitled to your opinion. No point in arguing about it.
Same here. I see vibes of the OG Xbox and early 360 in their future portfolio. They have Hall of Fame team leads making unpredictable games. I don't need to see every studio with 300+ employees to be excited for what they make next.
Well, Halo Infinite is coming next year and Rare is on record saying they aren't interested in returning to past IP right now.
I honestly think Microsoft pulled back once Ryse, Sunset Overdrive and Quantum Break didn't set the world on fire.
This has been an ongoing problem for years with Microsoft, they come out with new titles and if they are not big hits they retreat back to the familiar Gears, Halo and Forza.
Difference now is there is actual investments moving forward to get new studios and widen their berth of IPs. That's why I'm not too worried about mixing things up with narrative driven games and multiplayer GaaS style.
Because people get bothered by both of these things - people being optimistic and people being hesitant and cynical about these declarations and first party acquisitions. I think the only argument that is false here is that "it's all talk", they surely have been doing some things to try to get better, it remains to be seen if it'll work out or not.
It's a silly argument, no doubt about that.
I haven´t saw many people saying that they should buy bigger studios, instead I see people talking about them making big games, and I´m not part of those that think they will only adress the issue until they buy bigger studios.
I´m part of those that think they will adress the issue once they prove they can keep a good schedule of good games.
Something that they haven´t proved so far that they can.
They have the "tools" now to fix this problem it, but only time will tell if they will.
And as I said it´s not everyone that will give them the benefit of doubt and it´s not the consumers fault to be not optmistic about them...after a whole gen with an output that "hasnt been the best" as Spencer himself said.
If you think their output has been enough and you are optimistic about their last actions that´s cool, but you have to understand and accept that some aren´t saitisfied with their current output and are hesitant about their future because of MS own mistakes and "only talk" moments during a whole gen.
Last edited:
Infinite should have come out last fall. Now its gonna be a cross gen game.
Other than Sea of Thieves, Rares output has been disappointing the last 10 years. Viva Pinata was over 10 years ago.
I would rather have 343 take their time instead of just rushing Infinite out.
Also, Breath of the Wild was a cross-gen game. That didn't seem to affect its success.
That's some really wishful thinking on Gears and Halo considering what we know. Which is almost nothing.
Fair enough. I expect their official reveal of Scarlett to include
No. Don't tell me what we will all do. I will not remain skeptical. You can remain skeptical. Don't speak for everyone.
The studios aren't unknown entities. We can look at their past output and see their output is mostly pretty damn good with a number of critically acclaimed titties among the studios.
A lot of people seem to think that buying developers up = MS creating quality first part content. At the moment all the games they're making are not MS games, they're just being finished off. MS also bought Lionhead and Bungie, and we saw how that went with Lionhead now dead and buried and Bungie leaving MS because they were fed up with being forced to make Halo.
So yeah, put me in the "wait and see" camp. Until MS have proven their track record of fostering and developing games other than Halo/Gears/Forza they don't deserve any benefit of the doubt from anyone IMO. We've been hearing "trust me guys the games are just around the corner" from Phil for the entirety of this generation.
God of War took 5 years to develop. Phil could have made it since he took over in 2014. He has made squat so far. Yes it takes time to make games, but not an entire generation. And the novel games he has fostered through this gen - scale bound, phantom dust, crackdown etc have either been cancelled or shoved out in an awful state because they couldn't take the negative PR of another cancelled game.
So yeah, throwing money around isn't the same as actually producing games, sorry guys. They have yet to show they can do that like Sony or Nintendo. "It takes time" isn't an excuse when Spencer has had 5 years to do what he wants and over 10 years in charge of games. It also isn't my problem as a consumer, I'm not buying the next Xbox on promises, promises that were made throughout this generation and never fulfilled. Phil's job is to provide a compelling product for me to buy, not make a good sales pitch about how good the product will be in the future, and make excuses as to why it isn't great now, but convince me to buy it anyway.
Just like Lionhead, Rare and Bungie and they're going great with... oh...
And that is our point. Throwing money around and buying developers is very different than fostering them and producing amazing games. MS have yet to show they can do that. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt until they have.
So yeah, put me in the "wait and see" camp. Until MS have proven their track record of fostering and developing games other than Halo/Gears/Forza they don't deserve any benefit of the doubt from anyone IMO. We've been hearing "trust me guys the games are just around the corner" from Phil for the entirety of this generation.
God of War took 5 years to develop. Phil could have made it since he took over in 2014. He has made squat so far. Yes it takes time to make games, but not an entire generation. And the novel games he has fostered through this gen - scale bound, phantom dust, crackdown etc have either been cancelled or shoved out in an awful state because they couldn't take the negative PR of another cancelled game.
So yeah, throwing money around isn't the same as actually producing games, sorry guys. They have yet to show they can do that like Sony or Nintendo. "It takes time" isn't an excuse when Spencer has had 5 years to do what he wants and over 10 years in charge of games. It also isn't my problem as a consumer, I'm not buying the next Xbox on promises, promises that were made throughout this generation and never fulfilled. Phil's job is to provide a compelling product for me to buy, not make a good sales pitch about how good the product will be in the future, and make excuses as to why it isn't great now, but convince me to buy it anyway.
Just like Lionhead, Rare and Bungie and they're going great with... oh...
And that is our point. Throwing money around and buying developers is very different than fostering them and producing amazing games. MS have yet to show they can do that. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt until they have.
Last edited:
Bungie made 5 high quality, industry changing shooters under MS, Lionhead made the Fable trilogy which was well recieved, and Rare is enjoying a ton of success with SoT on top of games like Kameo, Conker L&R, Viva Piñata and Banjo N&B.
This isn't to say it doesn't suck that they lost Bungie, closed Lionhead, and have had critical struggles with Rare, but that doesn't mean they haven't been able to produce bangers with their first party studios.
This is a fair position to have.
But when you read more about the situation at Xbox, you can see why things happened like they did. Budget restraints, uncertainties and a fight for power in the consumer part of the company have all had effect on Microsoft's generation. It's not an excuse, but it can be an explanation.
With the studios they have now, the investments they are doing and their overall strategy going forward it is looking better than ever for Microsoft's gaming brand. But it all comes down to execution.
MS has made a ton of tangible moves since the last time Phil gave us this talk, so I can't recycle the old "here we go again" rhetoric like back in the "MS is dedicated to PC" days. I mean studios have been bought, teams created, games started. It's not a mirage or hallucination.
Promising seeds have been planted. All I can do is wait and see on whether the fruit itself turns out to be sweet.
A problem I already foresee is that these games may be in the oven for 2 to 3 plus years, so when E3 2020 rolls around people will be out for blood when they don't get gameplay demos on the main stage.
Continuing to shit on MS for when they had nothing promising on the horizon, or even the potential, is a position full of tenuous strength.
Promising seeds have been planted. All I can do is wait and see on whether the fruit itself turns out to be sweet.
A problem I already foresee is that these games may be in the oven for 2 to 3 plus years, so when E3 2020 rolls around people will be out for blood when they don't get gameplay demos on the main stage.
Continuing to shit on MS for when they had nothing promising on the horizon, or even the potential, is a position full of tenuous strength.
Or people will be mad when the majority of them are AA type games meant to support Gamepass.
I think you are misunderstanding my post. I'm speaking in terms of how the announcement of Bleeding Edge projects to people who are critical of what MS does. That's why the reception was so poor. It's like, "of course MS bought NT, they had a MP game in development." I'm not saying MS actually bought them because of that. Only that there's a perception of that. You need to calm down lol
The difference is that Sony and MS are in a position that they don't need to fund MP games themselves. There will never ever be a hole for those. However, there is a shortage of single player games on those systems, especially high-production, narrative driven, action games.
And Nintendo does not have that luxury as they do not get all the third party games. They have to make a fighting game, a racing game, and a shooter because they don't have every game coming to their system.
That doesn't make any sense. It looks like there will be a variety of experiences, yes, including AA games, which is, by far, the most interesting option of them all. Give me Ori 2 and Psychonauts 2 over the next Forza, Days Gone or Assassins Creed any day of the week.
That's definitely a minority opinion. Not saying those are not great games, but they don't have the same appeal.