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Speaking of trans issues let's talk about racism and the general disregard of brands when we call them out for it.
- Thread starter Deleted member 64002
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I feel like that thread has *already* gone past the point of no return. It's funny how many threads we had in the last few days lamenting the lack of nuance in discussion, but when you try to say, "Neil really shouldn't have said it that way" you have people hand-waving you away, if not attacking you in response.
As someone who came from GameFAQs forums way back in the day, this place legitimately felt like such a breath of fresh air when I finally switched to it. And although I know I am often pretty dense about many of the issues brought up by topics in the OP, I am slowly learning and doing my best to improve, and thanks for bringing a lot of this to my attention more.
However, the sad thing is that while we here still clearly have a long way to go, this forum STILL feels like an absolute bastion compared to basically anywhere else on the internet I've ever been that offers gaming discussion. I feel like gaming in general is just so riddled with toxicity and casual bigotry and such that it's going to take a very long time to improve the community as a whole. Things like all of the massive amount of sexual misconduct stories that recently broke are just yet another example of how broken the industry is in so many ways.
However, the sad thing is that while we here still clearly have a long way to go, this forum STILL feels like an absolute bastion compared to basically anywhere else on the internet I've ever been that offers gaming discussion. I feel like gaming in general is just so riddled with toxicity and casual bigotry and such that it's going to take a very long time to improve the community as a whole. Things like all of the massive amount of sexual misconduct stories that recently broke are just yet another example of how broken the industry is in so many ways.
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it may be nicer than other places but it still needs a lot of work before we can feel comfortable being here. And I agree! Gamers are some of the worst in terms of attitude and behavior to the point where the word is such a joke and the fact that thuggery was such a long-running joke when capcom made that announcement years ago. One of the biggest things we need to deal with is brand loyalty and how toxic that shit is. Any steam vs Epic thread is a cesspit and a lot of steam era(and when I say steam era I'm specifically referring to brand loyalty)is really messed up. I am calling it out now because I am just tired of it and want people to realize that their actions have consequences and their behavior is not ok in a group space. like I'm afraid this threads relevance will last a long time as more and more incidents pop up that we end up needing to have to take care of again and again.
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Coming into this as a straight white cis man, I'm very much the exact demographic that can easily overlook or disregard these issues as they don't have any bearing on my identity. I think it is very easy for people with my background to dismiss these issues simply because, well, they want to enjoy a game and don't want to have to struggle with it. That being said, these are issues that should be discussed and shouldn't be outright dismissed. I think some people take offense and get defensive because they feel like they're being attacked if they like something that someone else wants to look at and grapple with the problematic aspects of. That kind of thinking really shuts down conversations, as we should be willing to at the very least examine something and discuss what might be problematic about it.
Coming from there though, the reason why I tend not to wade into these issues as much, is I have a hard time finding where the line is between "this is problematic and we should discuss it" and "this is problematic to the point where we shouldn't support it at all". I know that line is going to be different for different people. I feel like when I approach those sort of conversations I'm left wondering if I've gone to discuss something problematic when it turns out it should be something that should be completely abandoned and disavowed instead, which causes me to hesitate.
For instance: I know we keep coming back to the Harry Potter issue. That's a game that's going to put money in the pocket of someone who continues to show that they're going to keep using their influential voice to make harmful transphobic remarks. I can understand that argument and can see how it's a clear cut "well, we should stop supporting the brand in any form" idea. Then we get something like the Cyberpunk issue with pronouns I saw recently. They seemed to be trying to include the ability to have any appereance and any gender, but then tied pronouns to the voice you select. I get how that's problematic and an issue. I'm left wondering if that's something that's deeply bad enough to say "hey, we shouldn't support this product at all". Adding to that is the fact that the creator of that brand is a black voice in the tabletop RPG world, which is sorely lacking diversity. So I hesitate to jump in because, one, I've been excited for that game and maybe that part of me that can ignore these issues as they don't affect my identity just wants to pretend it didn't happen, and two, I'm not sure if our discussions should be about how the industry can improve or if they should be about how we shouldn't support the kind of developers who would make these decisions.
I know this all sounds a little babbly, but I'm just trying to work out why these things might happen from other people who share my background and why people like me might not be as willing to enter into these conversations. I'm glad for this thread as it's helped to open my eyes to some of the things that I might have been able to just casually ignore in the past.
Coming from there though, the reason why I tend not to wade into these issues as much, is I have a hard time finding where the line is between "this is problematic and we should discuss it" and "this is problematic to the point where we shouldn't support it at all". I know that line is going to be different for different people. I feel like when I approach those sort of conversations I'm left wondering if I've gone to discuss something problematic when it turns out it should be something that should be completely abandoned and disavowed instead, which causes me to hesitate.
For instance: I know we keep coming back to the Harry Potter issue. That's a game that's going to put money in the pocket of someone who continues to show that they're going to keep using their influential voice to make harmful transphobic remarks. I can understand that argument and can see how it's a clear cut "well, we should stop supporting the brand in any form" idea. Then we get something like the Cyberpunk issue with pronouns I saw recently. They seemed to be trying to include the ability to have any appereance and any gender, but then tied pronouns to the voice you select. I get how that's problematic and an issue. I'm left wondering if that's something that's deeply bad enough to say "hey, we shouldn't support this product at all". Adding to that is the fact that the creator of that brand is a black voice in the tabletop RPG world, which is sorely lacking diversity. So I hesitate to jump in because, one, I've been excited for that game and maybe that part of me that can ignore these issues as they don't affect my identity just wants to pretend it didn't happen, and two, I'm not sure if our discussions should be about how the industry can improve or if they should be about how we shouldn't support the kind of developers who would make these decisions.
I know this all sounds a little babbly, but I'm just trying to work out why these things might happen from other people who share my background and why people like me might not be as willing to enter into these conversations. I'm glad for this thread as it's helped to open my eyes to some of the things that I might have been able to just casually ignore in the past.
Since your willing to listen just want to drop in a reply to say I am not judging you nor wouldn't tell you how to spend your money or to feel bad for it, but the reason some such as I will not support CD Projekt (and that's not just cyberpunk, that also applies to all their games and unfortunately considering their stances purely on the tech side such as no DRM I will not purchase from GOG) is this isn't a one time incident, it's just the latest that brings the total to at least six and from different branches with the only fallout being one firing along with the firing being accompanied by (and this is one of the incidents I personally count) an apology of the " We are sorry if you were offended" non apology that takes no responsibility and pushes the blame to the offended for being offended as if it happened in a vacuum.
As for Pondsmith, beyond not knowing the actual extent or position he has in relation beyond working with them, even if he is on the up and up (and I don't personally know the man so I refuse to make value judgements positive or negative) he doesn't speak for all minorities or the culture of a company he works with not for.
Again not judging you or telling you how to feel or what to do, just laying out the facts as I understand them so that hopefully you get why while I won't tell you what to do or judge you for what you do, I as a trans person which is the minority that has taken the brunt of their incidents I can't in good consciousness support them, which kind of sucks due to GOG and the fact that I am the target audience for a game like cyberpunk on multiple levels from being a pen and paper guy, to liking First Person Perspective roleplaying games, and being a huge fan of the genre who while having read the majority of his work considers Gibson's sprawl trilogy (yes I like and think Mona Lisa Overdrive and Count Zero are just as good and important as Neuromancer) to not only be a landmark and important work of fiction but I read it at a point where I was in my most formative of teenage years and it remains one of the most influential works of fiction on both my creativity and general perspective and outlook on life.
Feels bad.
This is fair. It's clearly something I would need to look into more and an example of how it's really easy for someone like me to not even realize these issues exist with the company in the first place. I think this goes to my point of how it's really easy for people to just wade into these conversations without realizing what the issues are in the first place, or that they might be bigger issues than what they seem at first. I don't have any solutions on how to make that better, beyond people just being willing to listen and at least engage in a dialogue.
Thanks for the info.
The thing, is, that isn't the only problematic issue surrounding CDPR regarding transphobia.
Tweet 1
Tweet 2
Link about fetishized ingame ad
Response to the above
I'm almost certain that there has been more incidents as well. Given the track record, there is no way I could support them.
Edit: Tidied the post up, it looked awful.
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At least your willing to listen, that alone puts you far ahead of others and I for one at least thank you for that, it's something we could use more of and also everyone do more of.
For instance I read most threads that deal with black issues but a quick look in my post history will show I rarely if ever post in them because as a white person, even as one who does fit into a different minority group, I really don't have much constructive to add but I do care about those issues and could always learn more so I shut my mouth and listen. And when ai do feel the need to say something (not here, it usually Involves white people Who won't listen to anyone except other white people, or situations where black people don't want to teach because they are tired (again totally get it from my perspective on the issues I face and it's valid for the oppressed to not want to have waste all their time teaching the oppressors) and when those situations arise I like to be able to fall back on information from those the issues actually affect and I can only do that by listening and learning, and also importantly realizing I don't always have to be the center of things and not everything is about me or people like me. But you seem to be trying the proper way so just keep it up I guess.
The serious lack of engagement on this thread is disheartening yeah
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I mean it's also pinned. But hey at least it's getting a fuckload of views it otherwise wouldn't have gotten. Also kind of gotta pin it since it would have been instantly buried otherwise. Kind of like a slow burn really.
i wanted to know your opinion to this: is mario bros with Italian typecasting racisme?
there is a lot going on in europe and US for banning this kind of things. even for less typecastings as mario.
why should apu been banned from Simpsons and mario not? they even talked about comedians that are too offensive. I just wonder where is the line?
just trying to understand this.
there is a lot going on in europe and US for banning this kind of things. even for less typecastings as mario.
why should apu been banned from Simpsons and mario not? they even talked about comedians that are too offensive. I just wonder where is the line?
just trying to understand this.
In retrospect, the writing was on the wall when this place refused to ban all THQ games after the 8chan thing. It's OK to be offended, but as long as you don't make so much noise that you disturb people while they consume their video games. Don't ban Persona 5 or Catherine or GTA or Harry Potter, people might want to play them! Won't somebody think of the consumers!
Also, don't criticize the LGBT representation in TLOU2, the game has already been anointed by the crowd to be on the good side of history. So if you're unhappy with being only allowed in AAA games to be raped and tortured, then you're arguing in bad faith, look, some LGBT are fine with it, so what's wrong with you? Say thank you because you're not getting killed in that game, remember, you can always be treated worse! Or erased, look at Horizon.
In any case, remember to buy the game before you say anything negative about it, or you're nothing!
However, criticizing Naughty Dog for the crunch culture is OK, because crunch culture also affect white cis-het people so that's a real world problem, not something that only exists in your head like the transphobia at CDPR.
If you're a minority on this site, remember, you're only there to be a token so that the white cis-het majority can be reassured they are so progressive: they post on Resetera, a place full of minorities! Look, the site even has a rotating Pride logo, that's the sign that they're the good guys! Now shut up about your concerns and be excited for the next game where you're treated like trash. Remember to preorder Biomutant!
Also, don't criticize the LGBT representation in TLOU2, the game has already been anointed by the crowd to be on the good side of history. So if you're unhappy with being only allowed in AAA games to be raped and tortured, then you're arguing in bad faith, look, some LGBT are fine with it, so what's wrong with you? Say thank you because you're not getting killed in that game, remember, you can always be treated worse! Or erased, look at Horizon.
In any case, remember to buy the game before you say anything negative about it, or you're nothing!
However, criticizing Naughty Dog for the crunch culture is OK, because crunch culture also affect white cis-het people so that's a real world problem, not something that only exists in your head like the transphobia at CDPR.
If you're a minority on this site, remember, you're only there to be a token so that the white cis-het majority can be reassured they are so progressive: they post on Resetera, a place full of minorities! Look, the site even has a rotating Pride logo, that's the sign that they're the good guys! Now shut up about your concerns and be excited for the next game where you're treated like trash. Remember to preorder Biomutant!
While there are things, that are a huge red flag, in discussions like this, there is usually not a clear line, but a case by case thing. Nuances can make a difference and not everything is easy to compare.
The question "When X, what about Y?!" may not be the best way to tackle things in general.
As for your example, Apu is a fleshed out character that represents several stereotypes.
How much can you say that about Mario? He is meant to be italian, but what exactly reflects this? He is also meant to be a plumber, what is also super irrelevant for everything happening around him.
The accent of his voice line, that famouse "It's a me, Mario" would be the only thing from the top of my head, one could bring up.
So while one could argue about Mario, he may not be a prime example with top priority.
I don't necessarily have much to say on this that I haven't said in other threads, and honestly I'm not sure the kind of sweeping change this community needs to actually be considered respectful of minority concerns is even possible. I'm guessing the deleted accounts in this thread agree with me on that - and we'll see more minorities decide this place isn't worth it before any kind of real change gets made.
But I appreciate you making and updating the thread nonetheless.
This thread about Spider-Man PS4's copaganda was met with a ton of dismissive "oh, but didn't you know this is fiction?", "you're overthinking a videogame" rhetoric and whataboutism galore. Right before the protests happened. I guess we're suddenly not overthinking things, eh?
Yeah, ResetEra seems to attract the semi-liberal who flirts with progressiveness but when pressured will get angry at "negativity" found in people critically appraising a videogame. See: every Jim Sterling thread where people have to summarize the video because people will just react to the headline and assume he's being a jerk or, god forbid, "tOo nEgaTiVe!!"
Yeah, ResetEra seems to attract the semi-liberal who flirts with progressiveness but when pressured will get angry at "negativity" found in people critically appraising a videogame. See: every Jim Sterling thread where people have to summarize the video because people will just react to the headline and assume he's being a jerk or, god forbid, "tOo nEgaTiVe!!"
Videogames are rarely apolitical and any response to criticism gets turned around as coming from "haters" (brand specific argument) or from a place of self-placed ignorance. The problems (like copaganda, BLM and trans issues among others) will always have that kind of unfortunate response because on the whole that's the type of person video games attract to message boards. ERA leans left, but people often don't want to commit to what that truly means if it involved criticizing digital products.
People want to treat video games like it's art, but refuse to look into the deeper meanings of the game or don't want politics in their video games.
Fiction or not, media depictions and representation matter. If it didn't matter, people need to stop crying about how TLOU2 hates men, or how ABBY'S GOT MUSCLES!?!?!?!
Fiction or not, media depictions and representation matter. If it didn't matter, people need to stop crying about how TLOU2 hates men, or how ABBY'S GOT MUSCLES!?!?!?!
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As long as someone is advocating for change then I think we have a good chance to push change. But if nobody says anything and we let it fester more and more people will up and leave without a fight. The community needs to band together not break apart more. And that includes being more vigilant when people post in bad faith or do not read the op. If your getting dogpiled in a thread for pointing stuff out then say something where everyone can see it. At this point I'm not gonna back down anymore and I won't rest until every minority member on era feels a little safer on here or at least try.
Edit adding the thread to the op.
Sadly I think this valuable thread will mostly go ignored like the stickied thread about the Uyghur, who are suffering a genocide, being used as slave labour to make consoles for all the manufacturers. Everyone was like well I'm not gonna stop buying consoles but this is terrible.
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I don't think it will and I remember that thread and yeah it sucked that it didn't get much traction and kind of the opposite of traction also.That said its still important that even if not many see it(25k views currently) it could have gotten about 9k views which would have killed this thread harder.
I think it's good to know where the community stands with 25k views and only 6 pages. Even a post about how they support this, would have been helpful.
But It's also good to have this sticked on top and the amount of views. Let people know we ain't gonna stand for their nonsense anymore.
User banned (permanent): false equivalence around racism, whataboutism
there is way much more typical Italian voices there than apu did. I don't think you know mario well if you say that "its me mario" the only thing.
there are also a lot of other lines he said that are even worse, much more as apu did. did you also seen the cartoons and the movie? i have to say it's ironic how people are drawing a different line for ones that are even worse. i believe many are moving the line way to far. i can look it up for you and proof it, but I think you need to step back and rethink this.
This is what is wrong, its good example of what i mean.
they should instead help the real racisme and the poor.
but there is way more going wrong than racisme only.
-racisme and slavery was even worse in Brazil, what I didn't knew before.
-gun law is crazy in us and kills way to many people and childeren, this would be my first priority.
-hong kong, nobody is doing something about it.
-sexism
- gays are not accepted on many places
- same for transgender
- Puttin that kill doctors by throwing them out the window because they tell the truth about covid19.
- Mexican border, where US locked up children because the parents are on a run.
What happens in Syria and many other countries?
That is what is wrong in our world.
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I'm sure many have already ignored the thread to be honest.
I was only talking about the games. There was the Mario Bros Super Show, wasn't there? And I know there is this old weird ass movie.
Can't say much about them, and as I said, I was only thinking of the games. If you meant something else, then feel free to ignore my thoughts. That didn't appear to me.
I'm a trans woman and I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush, but the Gaming side of this forum has made me literally cry on several occasions. Big ol sobs of frustration. Do I need to get a thicker skin? No. Do I need to be less emotional? No.
Do people need to fucking listen to and respect trans people when we say that we're struggling to survive while constantly being the butt of jokes at best and the targets of beating/murder at worst? Unequivocally, yes.
Do people need to fucking listen to and respect trans people when we say that we're struggling to survive while constantly being the butt of jokes at best and the targets of beating/murder at worst? Unequivocally, yes.
I am kind of confused what you want to say here. Do you mean people shouldn't care about the Stuff like with apu because there are worse things going on in the world?
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I'm with you hun we gotta stay strong ! I feel like many non minority members don't understand when something is brought to their attention because their so dead focused on this idea that their correct and their opinion matters due to whatever reason. It's going to take a while to move past that but getting the dogpile threads to happen less and less would be a good start.
Thanks for posting this OP. It has been impossible not to notice the exodus of so many people over the years whether because they don't feel welcome or because they are finally pushed to break the TOS by bad-faith posters and end up permabanned. I don't post a ton, but I lurk a lot and many posters whose writing I've enjoyed over the years are now gone and not coming back and as much as I hate to admit it, I helped contribute to that environment through inaction.
I've always considered myself someone that doesn't dismiss concerns and keeps an open mind, listens, and supports. Yet, I was guilty of dismissing concerns about Rowling over the years. When her transphobic liked tweets were posted I always dismissed them thinking that it was just a mistake, that she hasn't done anything overtly transphobic. Each incident, I justified ignoring it because she hadn't actually directly said anything and Harry Potter was important to me. When she suddenly started loudly proclaiming her transphobia for all to hear, it wasn't anything new, it was just now impossible to ignore. I'm sorry for disregarding those who tried to point out her bigotry in the past.
In the future, if a trans person tells me something or someone is transphobic, I will believe them and back them up.
I've always considered myself someone that doesn't dismiss concerns and keeps an open mind, listens, and supports. Yet, I was guilty of dismissing concerns about Rowling over the years. When her transphobic liked tweets were posted I always dismissed them thinking that it was just a mistake, that she hasn't done anything overtly transphobic. Each incident, I justified ignoring it because she hadn't actually directly said anything and Harry Potter was important to me. When she suddenly started loudly proclaiming her transphobia for all to hear, it wasn't anything new, it was just now impossible to ignore. I'm sorry for disregarding those who tried to point out her bigotry in the past.
In the future, if a trans person tells me something or someone is transphobic, I will believe them and back them up.
Thank you for making this thread in gaming side as well, even after expecting pushback. For transphobia as well as other issues (which I'll get to in a sec...), it's been pretty bad to see just how much is allowed to fester in gaming side. So much of what prompts poor behavior is just ingrained in the culture here and I have not seen nearly enough effort on the staff's part to change that. Like...
For the record, I remain pretty fucking appalled at the handling of this thread, to the point that I've been debating reporting posts in it again just to see if the mods actually do anything this time. It's infuriating and leaves me feeling pretty hopeless over any chances of the culture of gaming side changing. An incredibly high number of drive-by posts, on top of the amount of that escalate into whining about ERA woke points/CRINGE/outrage/YIKES/hivemind/whatever shit (as if everyone ganging up doesn't show the opposite...?) or just outright mocking the OP. Barely any warnings or bans at all, not even a mod message saying that the behavior on display wasn't ok, just a lock that was even initially dismissive of the OP too. Surprised they even bothered to edit that message.
You have to clamp that shit down; none of that was too little to warrant a warning. People knew what they were doing. That kind of casual, mindless resistance to even the slightest idea of any criticism of a game is a real fucking bad sign; at worst, there are respectful ways to work through feeling like something's an overreach and none of that was it. And you know that kind of poster is absolutely just going to do the same thing in a bigger thread where you actually have to moderate it, at that point them doing it may be causing derails and similar problems as well, and you've only hurt many more marginalized users in the process. Why not save yourself the trouble and don't let things slide in advance?
(...and, that being said to the staff, w/r/t you having deleted I'm sorry to see you leave)
For the record, I remain pretty fucking appalled at the handling of this thread, to the point that I've been debating reporting posts in it again just to see if the mods actually do anything this time. It's infuriating and leaves me feeling pretty hopeless over any chances of the culture of gaming side changing. An incredibly high number of drive-by posts, on top of the amount of that escalate into whining about ERA woke points/CRINGE/outrage/YIKES/hivemind/whatever shit (as if everyone ganging up doesn't show the opposite...?) or just outright mocking the OP. Barely any warnings or bans at all, not even a mod message saying that the behavior on display wasn't ok, just a lock that was even initially dismissive of the OP too. Surprised they even bothered to edit that message.
You have to clamp that shit down; none of that was too little to warrant a warning. People knew what they were doing. That kind of casual, mindless resistance to even the slightest idea of any criticism of a game is a real fucking bad sign; at worst, there are respectful ways to work through feeling like something's an overreach and none of that was it. And you know that kind of poster is absolutely just going to do the same thing in a bigger thread where you actually have to moderate it, at that point them doing it may be causing derails and similar problems as well, and you've only hurt many more marginalized users in the process. Why not save yourself the trouble and don't let things slide in advance?
(...and, that being said to the staff, w/r/t you having deleted I'm sorry to see you leave)
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no, i say we have to think twice what would help the world and not banning everything that could consider of something that harm some people. like comedians does all of the time.
for example we have in our country a group that makes songs for children, now a lot of people complaint about this picture: https://images1.persgroep.net/rcs/k...=2dc96dd3f167e919913d808324cbfeb2&quality=0.8
its of a new music clip that goes about Egyptian story. people says the picture is racisme because they aren't really Egyptians. I ask my self howfar do we need to go with this, do we need to ban all magazines where pretty skinny girls are covered (models..) because it harms all the girls that have a bit more weight.
I do have a line don't take me wrong. but we have to start with the cause and i believe it is with giving those and all people a change to be equal like us and have more respect for them. And its together not one side that you can reach that goal. but it would be a long road.
I've had this thread on watch since it was created, but not posted in here yet, mostly as I didn't really feel like I had something constructive to say. But as a fellow trans woman, I just feel I should let you know you're not alone in getting so frustrated and exasperated at Gaming side.
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Hey all considering the circumstances I am linking this special thread to the op please give it a visit if you are suffering from any mental health related issues. We all love you!
www.resetera.com
So, uh, July Is Minority Mental Health Awareness Month
🤩 Content Warning: Mental Illness and Suicide 🤩 Hi, Era. I didn't see a thread for this and figured I'd make it. This is my very first one, though, so please be patient with me and anything I've missed. 🙏 So here it is. Some of you might be aware of May being Mental Health Awareness Month...
www.resetera.com
Just had a look at a thread on the other side and come to the realisation that things just aren't going to change here whatsoever. Same shit different thread every single time without fail.
Between all this and incidents outside this forum(there are some people here that will know what I'm talking about though) it's hard to stay strong. To say it hurts is an understatement.
Between all this and incidents outside this forum(there are some people here that will know what I'm talking about though) it's hard to stay strong. To say it hurts is an understatement.
To be clear; comedians that use transphobic jokes as part of their set can go fuck themselves into the sun.
I won't directly link it, as it's nice to have a string of positivity going in this thread, but wanted to note about the Catherine Full Body thread that had a short life earlier. The response there really underlines the issue here of transphobia being a mere footnote to most gamers when it comes to problematic content. People will happily ignore transphobic content if it they are dead-set on buying a game.
The most dismaying part of the thread was the poll: 60% of those who voted said 'yes' to the game being worth buying, which becomes an issue when 'buy used' was in the poll as a separate option.
The most dismaying part of the thread was the poll: 60% of those who voted said 'yes' to the game being worth buying, which becomes an issue when 'buy used' was in the poll as a separate option.
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God it's not going great on ECT either rn just shaking my head at the idiocy on display by some people.
It really feels like to a lot of people trans people are acceptable losses. And then there's a large segment of people who don't want to have to hear or think about it.
Well your banned so you probably won't see this (and with that attitude probably wouldn't care) but I would still like to address it especially as maybe it could educate a lurker or two.
Societal attitudes often get swung one way or the other, and as people become familiar with things they can be more understanding so media absolutely matters. I will even go out on a limb and posit that the increase of gay representation in media and the increase in positive rep along with people realizing those around them also included gays directly contributed to the larger acceptance of gay rights, especially marriage.
As for trans people it's the minority of the smallest percentage, and it is entirely possible without bigotry (and those flying under the radar to avoid bigotry) that lots of people never will, at least to their knowledge even know a trans person. At least in America (I cannot and will not speak for other countries and cultures positive or negative with authority) most people's experience with or perception of transgender people will come mostly if not entirely through media. And the majority of media (Movies, games, tv, comedians, etc) is overwhelmingly negative.
And it leads to real world bigotry and violence against trans people, and a lot of media says that's A-ok. Call me when "it's a me, Mario" leads to people getting killed, and while your waiting to find an example do a little digging into the fact that trans women of color, especially those that are African American are the group with the highest statistically chance of commiting suicide or being murdered, overwhelmingly negative media portrayals that at best dismiss concerns or make puke jokes, and at worst imply that it's good that murders happen (also while your waiting for that Mario Murder do some investigating into the "trans panic defense" and the fact it's still legal to use it in some states in the usa) so yes media very much matters, and if a comedian gets cancelled (which never fucking sticks by the way, black trans women keep getting murdered and Dave Chappelle will get another record breaking Netflix deal) for this shit, fuck em.
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Amen at that shit trans people are under alot of folks radars and since shit likes to paint us as sneaky sneaks it leads to alot of violence against us. At the end of the day all we want to do is enjoy our lives to the fullest without feeling paranoid that someones gonna stab you in the back. This shit happens everywhere even in the liberalist cities because trans violence is so normalized. And also when you have big media outlets and the president pushing new laws to fuck us over all the time there's no escape from it.
I'm tired.
I'm so tired of seeing minority opinions being slagged off, of bad faith arguments that rely on extreme mischaracterization, of people being treated badly just because they don't align with the predominantly cis white male viewpoints that dominate this forum.
I just wish people would learn to shut up and listen. How many more communities must be purged and how many members must be driven away before people will get that?
TBH, I don't even know why I'm posting this here. It's not the like the people who are perpetrating it will be in this thread.
I'm so tired of seeing minority opinions being slagged off, of bad faith arguments that rely on extreme mischaracterization, of people being treated badly just because they don't align with the predominantly cis white male viewpoints that dominate this forum.
I just wish people would learn to shut up and listen. How many more communities must be purged and how many members must be driven away before people will get that?
TBH, I don't even know why I'm posting this here. It's not the like the people who are perpetrating it will be in this thread.
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If it helps we successfully stopped folks from being dicks in another thread. If they wanna shout us down we gotta shout back.
been reading this thread, and keeping watching it. thank you very much for this. i do try to understand it all, and see how it looks on the other side, but i admit there's still a lot more to learn.
if i may recommend something, since i've seen that some posts about depiction of transgender people, and it reminded me of a documentary i've seen on netflix. it also taught me a lot
if i may recommend something, since i've seen that some posts about depiction of transgender people, and it reminded me of a documentary i've seen on netflix. it also taught me a lot
Yeah, Disclosure is really good and I have been recommending it to anyone who wants to actually understand but doesn't why the context around trans people in media makes it a little more deeper and complex than a lot of conversation about social issues and media.been reading this thread, and keeping watching it. thank you very much for this. i do try to understand it all, and see how it looks on the other side, but i admit there's still a lot more to learn.
if i may recommend something, since i've seen that some posts about depiction of transgender people, and it reminded me of a documentary i've seen on netflix. it also taught me a lot
Adding polls to those sorts of threads is just a bad idea.
The Catherine, Nadine, and especially the Harry Potter thread polls probably legit made some people feel unwelcomed on the site.
We know the drill, people vote their real opinion on the poll, then ignore posting anything on the thread, in fear of getting banned.
The Catherine, Nadine, and especially the Harry Potter thread polls probably legit made some people feel unwelcomed on the site.
We know the drill, people vote their real opinion on the poll, then ignore posting anything on the thread, in fear of getting banned.
At the very least people should be required to post their reasoning for their choice. if that isn't possible then threads like all of these with polls should just be straight up banned because I refuse to believe that they are posted with good faith now, all they do is cause hurt.
I agree entirely. We closed a similar poll earlier on today- if you see poll threads lining up the consumer indifference of the majority vs minority issues, please do report or pm a mod if you can. There's no way we should be allowing minority issues to sit in a poll allowing fans of an IP to simply '+1' to indifference anonymously.
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Last night there was one about a op asking if naming covid the Wuhan virus was racist. 30 people said no. Like I don't even know e.e