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Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
I'd have to agree, even if you fix the technical mess of Sonic 06, the game would still not be that great due to design choices and other problems (stilted English dialogue and even unedited recordings for one)
🤷♀️ I would still play 06 over Heroes over Forces any day of the week tbh. Possibly Colors but that depends what I'm in the mood for.
A much better one too, tbh.
You know 06 might be heavily flawed but at least it was never boring to play and it did have ambition. It just needed like another year or two.
Wouldn't that be the dream ? I hope they realize that lowering the budget of each game one after the other is just gonna result in worse products each time which will further reduce sales. Hopefully, the next game has a higher budget.
OP
OP
"Ambition" means nothing. Anthem had ambition, and look where that got it.
Ambition doesn't make a game good but it absolutely does mean something.
Every now and then, I get the urge to pop in Sonic Unleashed for a bit, and I'm always in awe of just how ridiculously well the visuals and lighting holds up.
The Wii/PS2 versions being the only reason why Unleashed as a whole made a profit probably helped with the writing on the wall for the idea of AAA Sonic, though.
:/
I wish Sega would find a proper solution for keeping AAA budget and tech while targeting Nintendo platforms for simultaneous multiplat release. I get the attach rate for Sonic being higher on Nintendo platforms, but honestly.
It does bum me out that every time we get details on next gen specs, I get excited about how Sonic could use the tech only to realize that it's more likely the game will be gimped by Nintendo hardware holding things back. I'd definitely rather just have Nintendo exclusive spin off games and "literally impossible on current gen Nintendo" AAA entries on the PlayStation/Xbox/PC. But that's just not gonna happen anymore most likely. Eh.
It's been time to give Sonic Team dev time and a budget for like 30 years so I'm not holding my breath
My personal opinion is that Sonic 06 just broke people. It was so bad that it broke something inside some fans that just couldn't take that the game is just so awful, that they've convinced themselves "there must be something good in there, and I'll prove it". Hense the remakes, or bringing those stages back in porting over levels.
He/she is absolutely right. Sonic Forces was a technically polished game, but I can't even summon the strength to talk about it because it was just so damn unremarkable. The scope and breadth of 06 was cast so wide that from a story, gameplay, technical standpoint it's objectionably more interesting to talk about, failings and all. I'll take an ambitious failure over a technically sound snooze-fest like Forces any day.
Think of it from the challenge aspect. It's nearly a blank canvas in terms of the amount of ways you could go about employing the technical improvements it needs. It's the difference between a home-remodeler excited to prove themselves seeing a beautifully built house that doesn't really need any work done, and a fixer-upper. To that modeler, the fixer-upper is the more exciting prospect since they can do almost anything they want to improve it in their own way. The harder puzzles are always the most exciting.
Checked all of the previous Seaside Hill tracks but it looks like this is new Team Sonic Racing track that few saw:
Much darker than the other stages.
Also, updated logos:
SEGA also opened the offical site and finally uploaded the Olympic games trailers to YouTube. Probably means more news soonish.
Much darker than the other stages.
Also, updated logos:
SEGA also opened the offical site and finally uploaded the Olympic games trailers to YouTube. Probably means more news soonish.
That same power to deny the truth that's in front of them is what keeps some people who keep asking for a Sonic Adventure 3 from realizing they already got it in '06.
OP
OP
what happened to just wishing for *good* games though
why do people feel the need to fix what should be left alone dying in the street
I don't remember who told me this but it was that Sonic, as a brand, still sells well enough that Sega doesn't see any need to change anything. They could put the budget and time into making Sonic's Super Mario Odyssey moment where you reinvigorate the whole franchise but why bother when their games still make their money back?
I don't think modern Sega cares about Sonic as a character anymore, just that it pushes units.
'cause they like it and don't see it that way. 🤷♀️ Idk man maybe I'm outing myself but I've been having a blast with this demo and actually feel a desire to get good at it, learning how the movement works and figuring out the flashiest routes through the two levels available. That's more than I can say for Forces, Lost World, or a "good" but wholly uninteresting game like Colors.
Yep ! Agreed,
Checked all of the previous Seaside Hill tracks but it looks like this is new Team Sonic Racing track that few saw:
Much darker than the other stages.
Something to note regarding this is that the stage layout is apparently the same as Lost Palace from the original all star racing so that's our third Seaside Hill track with a new coat of pain.
Nah, like I said in a tumblr post today, there's just this modder mentality of wanting to "fix" broken games. There are mods to fix STALKER: Shadow of Chernobyl, Jurassic Park Trespasser, GTA4, FUEL, Doom 3, Aliens: Colonial Marines, KOTOR 2, etc. etc.
You're right that Sonic 06 broke people but also this is definitely just business as usual for modders. Some people just like fixer-uppers.
I'm convinced anybody who tried to defend Sonic 06 has either never played it, or have played it but it's been so long they forgot.
Most fans of Sonic 06 I have seen just prefer the format it was going for compared to other games that came later. Honestly, it is a great format, it just had no focus or direction so nothing gels.
The very real reason is more that they were super young when they played it and when you're under the age of, say, 15, your ability to have critical judgements on that kind of stuff is severely impaired. Surely there are cartoons or movies that you loved as a kid and find it difficult to return to. For me, it's the 1988 Ninja Turtles cartoon, which is just way too cheesy and simplistic for me now.
The same applies to games. I loved games like Bugs Bunny: Rabbit Rampage, Flintstones: Treasure of the Sierra Madrock, Awesome Possum, etc. Treasure Island Dizzy wasn't a bad game, it was just REALLY hard!
Now in my adulthood I can definitively say, no, it really was just a bad Dizzy game. Actually, maybe most Dizzy games were bad.
And speaking as someone with a Sonic 06 trash talking video with 2.25 million views and 20k comments, some of which I've gone to the trouble of writing responses to, I can tell you that 75% of the people defending that game are under the age of 15. They just don't know any better. They're still in some phase of their life where so many things seem fresh and new and amazing even when they're not.
Even if a starving man's first meal is a flattened, sad, microwave-reheated mcdonalds hamburger, it's going to be the best burger he's ever tasted, you know? Because his direct point of comparison is "I've been eating nothing, and this is way better than nothing."
That video is ten years old next year, which means I've actually gotten a couple comments from people who came back to leave me a second comment that's like "I was 11 years old when I wrote that original comment and now I'm graduating high school this year, and you were actually totally right about this game, I'm sorry"
You know, with the recent remake news I finally decided to play 06, I have a PS3 version but my PS3 is long gone, so I got a 360 copy off ebay, dusted off my dying 360, and started playing it this morning, few hours later..
Honestly, I'd kinda defend it. The game is not really that bad (at least the Sonic campaign, tried the first level of the other two campaigns and noped out). It's flawed for sure, with some frustrating parts, but still has charm, in a "so bad it's good" way, especially the story and that.. relationship with Elise, which I just find incredibly hilarious. To me, this was a fun 6 outta 10 ride.
"If you have time to worry, then run"
Bingo.
The first time I played 06 was a couple of years after it came out for a YouTube LP. I was very snarky and sarcastic and angry at it, because it's 06 and that was just what you did at the time. Second and last time I played it was about two years ago (also a YouTube LP, go figure) where I wanted to make more of an effort to stay positive because I felt the "angry YouTuber playing 06" schtick was played out. I was 15 the first time and 21 the second, I think. If that's too young to tell what a good game is... lol. I have more nostalgia for the hype cycle and fallout that came from 06 than the actual game itself because lord knows my mom wasn't buying my broke 10 year old ass a $600 console to play a Sonic game and Spider-Man 3, and I was terminally online even at that age.
The reasons I'd defend 06 are pretty simple: I feel Sonic Adventure is the best Sonic game. I think the way it's structured is the best way to make a Sonic game. I think the way Sonic controls in that game is the best he's ever felt in an official 3D game, and I think the way the characters share level design that's laid out in a way to use their movesets uniquely is the best way to build Sonic levels. On top of that the environments themselves are visually appealing (and props to P-06 for making them straight up gorgeous). 06 does these things much worse than Adventure, but the skeleton of a good Sonic game is in there if you look for it. I wouldn't say that about Heroes, Forces, Shadow, Lost World, Boom, or 4.
Obviously I wouldn't go as far as to call it good. I still played the same game. Elise sucks, the humans look weird, Sonic looks weird, loading, yada yada. We had that conversation 10 years ago and it's fucking boring now. What the game does well is a far more productive and far more interesting discussion to me. If anything P-06 makes me feel vindicated now that it has people wanting to see it finished. Just a few small tweaks and 06 is actually really fun to play.
Saying "the people who like this thing must have never actually played it or just forgot how bad it objectively is" or "they're just blinded by nostalgia and don't see the TRUTH" is such a fucking condescending attitude to have about people like a video game. You don't have to agree but maybe listen to what it is people say they like? Because unless people are just saying "I played this when I was an idiot child and that's why I still like it" there's probably more to it than that.
Good for you. But Sonic's campaign is the least bad. Silver and Shadow's are the most tedious slogs that I've ever grinded through. It's hard to defend a game when you've only played 1/3 of it though.You know, with the recent remake news I finally decided to play 06, I have a PS3 version but my PS3 is long gone, so I got a 360 copy off ebay, dusted off my dying 360, and started playing it this morning, few hours later..
Honestly, I'd kinda defend it. The game is not really that bad (at least the Sonic campaign, tried the first level of the other two campaigns and noped out). It's flawed for sure, with some frustrating parts, but still has charm, in a "so bad it's good" way, especially the story and that.. relationship with Elise, which I just find incredibly hilarious. To me, this was a fun 6 outta 10 ride.
"If you have time to worry, then run"
No way is Sonic's campaign the best, those Mach Speed sections alone make it at least worst than Shadow's
I hold my opinion of all the gameplay in that game is equally shitty in different ways. I just like shadow's campaign most because the story is actually nice there.
Sonic has mach speed
Shadow has the vehichles
And silver has... fuck like everything about that shit is bad, but you do get to play as blaze so bonus.
THIS
Sonic has mach speed
Shadow has the vehichles
And silver has... fuck like everything about that shit is bad, but you do get to play as blaze so bonus.
okay i guess we doing this
STORY TIER
---------------------
SHADOW
SILVER
SONIC
LEVELS TIER
---------------
SONIC
SHADOW
SILVER
GIMMICK ASS SHIT
-------------------------------
SHADOW (vehicles)
SONIC (mach speed)
SILVER ( silver was higher, but then i remembered the ball puzzle so fuuuuuuuck psychic)
STORY TIER
---------------------
SHADOW
SILVER
SONIC
LEVELS TIER
---------------
SONIC
SHADOW
SILVER
GIMMICK ASS SHIT
-------------------------------
SHADOW (vehicles)
SONIC (mach speed)
SILVER ( silver was higher, but then i remembered the ball puzzle so fuuuuuuuck psychic)
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Fair enough, lol. But I'd also consider Sonic Adventure terrible if I judged it as a whole package, as I think the only campaign worth going through is Sonic's. :P
.. I really liked those sections, huh.
Story
all of them are bad but Shadow's is worst because the character is insufferable post-SA2
Gameplay
Sonic
Silver - weird and kinda bad but is kinda novel
Shadow - literally just Sonic except he sucks
all of them are bad but Shadow's is worst because the character is insufferable post-SA2
Gameplay
Sonic
Silver - weird and kinda bad but is kinda novel
Shadow - literally just Sonic except he sucks
I would argue Shadow's story is literally the best he's ever been. Strait up justifies him as a character and presents his character well and has basically been the template for his character for years.
And uh... hey man if you find the uh... if you find silvers gameplay novel... more power to you. I mean Some people like Nails in their eyes, that's their thing I wont stop you.
CAR MENU
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The mach speed sections are god awful and I hate them but you do not know true suffering until you:
-Played as Rouge in Kingdom Valley
-The ball puzzle in Silver's story.
I still can't get enough of the trailers 06 gave us pre-release, i remember breaking the replay button during my late elementary school years.
I said it was novel, not good. 🤷♀️ If you've played similar physics based action platformers let me know because I'm interested. As flawed as it was I've never played anything like Silver's campaign in 06 and to me there's more merit to that than Shadow's "literally Sonic but slower and with vehicles and you mash the A button more".
And uh, I guess you got me? I find him enjoyable in SA2 even if his story is a bit much for me. I find his character really irritating in every game since then, including 06. We've already had this talk lol.
OP
OP
Believe it or not but Sonic 06 is still on my todo list.
I have no idea where I stopped with everyone but Sonic (goddamn Railway level of hell).
This game is a test of fortitude.
I can't believe that the game could control this badly AND that they managed to make the additional characters control even worse!
I'll say this though, while it may be why I stopped buying Sonic games it's still weirdly more entertaining than all the other franchise killing disaster games.
I have no idea where I stopped with everyone but Sonic (goddamn Railway level of hell).
This game is a test of fortitude.
I can't believe that the game could control this badly AND that they managed to make the additional characters control even worse!
I'll say this though, while it may be why I stopped buying Sonic games it's still weirdly more entertaining than all the other franchise killing disaster games.
Also.....sorry but FUCK NO!
For that bowling level alone!
You trying to give me PTSD or something?
How to stretch a boring 5min level?
Put a goddamn 3hour trial right at the fucking end.
It's been what? a decade? I can still remember the scars.
when sonic colors gets remade to include shadow kicking a fucker at the back of his head you let me know champ
until then 06 is THE BETTER GAME
I had a long post ready about what I feel about silver's gameplay, but I think I can boil it down. Plus sonic 06 is so old that me sitting on it for longer than I need to ain't worth it.
I feel like silver's gameplay, and even his character is representative of a lot of issues I have with a lot of the sonic series's....issues. At least 3d sonic. Its so out of pocket in a way that isn't something i'm initially to interested in doing in a sonic game, but at the sametime so safe the premise never really proves itself and it ends up just being basic bad.
That's all i'm gonna say it on it
I feel like silver's gameplay, and even his character is representative of a lot of issues I have with a lot of the sonic series's....issues. At least 3d sonic. Its so out of pocket in a way that isn't something i'm initially to interested in doing in a sonic game, but at the sametime so safe the premise never really proves itself and it ends up just being basic bad.
That's all i'm gonna say it on it