Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Maybe if Midna would show up in a canon game again. The problem with these secondary Zelda characters is they really just show up for one game and are never seen again (outside of something like Hyrule Warriors).

Sheik is something of an exception, but you can kinda see why. Because she's Zelda, and Zelda certainly wasn't going to disappear from the franchise.
I don't feel like Zelda should suffer it's loss of characters just because the way the game is narratively structured while Fire Emblem(which I like mind you) is give free reign to get as many characters as it wants.

If there considered important enough to get in as an assist trophy I don't see why someone as popular as Midna isn't allowed to be playable.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
The problem with Urbosa is that, while she would help with Smash's female fighter & black/brown representation problem, she doesn't really bring much to the table moveset-wise that the others don't already do (especially compared to the other 3 Champions).
Sword user with lightning magic and you could probably incorporate the sand seals into her move set too.

Nothing too mind blowing but I think it'd be a fun set up. Same for Mipha who I'd also like.
 

Zubz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,565
no
An Echo Pack seems like easy money and a way to get more fan favourites in, like Dixie Kong and Octoling.

I'm still mad we never got Ms. Pac-Man as an Echo & would happily buy that character.

... Like I would for any character that didn't make me feel like I was supporting something terrible, admittedly.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,859
An Echo Pack seems like easy money and a way to get more fan favourites in, like Dixie Kong and Octoling.

I don't know. I think if they were gonna make Dixie an echo, they would have done it while they were making the base game. I can't see Dixie as a paid dlc echo fighter. But I could be wrong.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,859
I don't feel like Zelda should suffer it's loss of characters just because the way the game is narratively structured while Fire Emblem(which I like mind you) is give free reign to get as many characters as it wants.

If there considered important enough to get in as an assist trophy I don't see why someone as popular as Midna isn't allowed to be playable.

I don't think we should view these series as being in competition with each other like that. The only series guaranteed new playable characters every game is Pokémon. And, at least in terms of sales, Pokémon >>> Zelda.

(And even then, Zelda got a new stage in the base game of Ultimate, which is more than we can say for Pokémon.)
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,859
I mean, they're assist trophies because they're not quite important enough

that's, like, the whole point of assist trophies

Adding on to this. If Punch-Out Wii did not exist, I don't think Little Mac would have made the jump to playable character. He would have remained an Assist Trophy in Smash Wii U/3DS.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,004
Twilight Princess being the best selling Zelda game at the time (with a smash game in the horizon) helped her popularity.

Kinda like two champions we know...
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
I mean, they're assist trophies because they're not quite important enough

that's, like, the whole point of assist trophies
My point is why are important characters relegated to assist purgatory just because there games introduced to a new cast every time while FE is allowed to put in as many as they want.
I don't think we should view these series as being in competition with each other like that. The only series guaranteed new playable characters every game is Pokémon. And, at least in terms of sales, Pokémon >>> Zelda.

(And even then, Zelda got a new stage in the base game of Ultimate, which is more than we can say for Pokémon.)
I've scene people say stuff about how Zelda is well represented by stages and items but being frank I plain just don't care.

Having new characters will always be more important to me then a bunch of stuff I'm probably only going to see or use a small fraction of the time.
 

OwOtacon

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 18, 2018
2,394
Jane

Joanne

Joanne is an album by Lady Gaga

Lady Gaga for smash confirmed? What would her moveset be?
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,882
Houston, TX
I'm not. Seemed like a case of too late release and saving them in case they did want to make one playable. I'll find it strange if next game skips them.
I mean, we got a Spring Man Assist Trophy, which kinda goes against the logic of saving the Champions for a potential playable character later (especially if they wait for the next game, where the AT could just be removed). Though I wouldn't be surprised if they were ignored in the next Smash game with regards to playable characters (like most other secondary Zelda characters) unless they return in a future mainline Zelda game.
 

Zubz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,565
no
Isn't there some mess about the legal rights for that character?

There apparently was in the past. Now the biggest issue is that, although Namco owns the Ms. Pac-Man IP outright, they resent they didn't make the character so they don't use her enough.

She's actually in Ultimate, but to find her, you need to complete a "lap" through Pac-Land, so she might as well be cut content right next to the Blast Corps stuff.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,478
Extra Fighter Pack:
  • 76 - Dixie Kong (Semi-Clone of Diddy)
  • 77 - Octoling (Semi-Clone of Inkling)
  • 78 - Geno (uses parts of Mii Gunner, Mega Man and Duck Hunt as a base)
  • 17ε - Impa (Skyward Sword design)
  • 57ε - Malos (XB2 should get any representation it can)
$14 USD for those five fighters and a few music tracks tied to each, but no new stages. Would you buy it?

As an alternate scenario, you can turn those last two fighters into proper Semi-Clones (of Sheik and Shulk respectively), but the price gets bumped up a bit. Does that change your purchase decision?
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,859
I've scene people say stuff about how Zelda is well represented by stages and items but being frank I plain just don't care.

Having new characters will always be more important to me then a bunch of stuff I'm probably only going to see or use a small fraction of the time.

Things like ATs, stages, and items still represent development resources. Time and money was spent on these things.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Extra Fighter Pack:
  • 76 - Dixie Kong (Semi-Clone of Diddy)
  • 77 - Octoling (Semi-Clone of Inkling)
  • 78 - Geno (uses parts of Mii Gunner, Mega Man and Duck Hunt as a base)
  • 17ε - Impa (Skyward Sword design)
  • 57ε - Malos (XB2 should get any representation it can)
$14 USD for those five fighters and a few music tracks tied to each, but no new stages. Would you buy it?

I don't know how Geno could be built as a chimera of three characters but I am intrigued nonetheless. Plus Skyward Impa needs to be in Smash by now.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,004
I mean, we got a Spring Man Assist Trophy, which kinda goes against the logic of saving the Champions for a potential playable character later (especially if they wait for the next game, where the AT could just be removed). Though I wouldn't be surprised if they were ignored in the next Smash game with regards to playable characters (like most other secondary Zelda characters) unless they return in a future mainline Zelda game.
Zelda is much more important then ARMS tho.
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,478
I don't know how Geno could be built as a chimera of three characters but I am intrigued nonetheless. Plus Skyward Impa needs to be in Smash by now.
Well, I only put in Duck Hunt because Clay Shooting could easily be adapted into Geno Whirl. Mii Gunner or Mega Man would be more appropriate bases for the character, but I still think they would be the most unique fighter out of that bunch.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,004
No Fire Emblem character is a side character.

The closet one is Lucina. Who can be described as 3rd billing in Awakening lol.

It's pretty ignorant to only count playable characters as "representation"
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Things like ATs, stages, and items still represent development resources. Time and money was spent on these things.
And that's all fine and dandy and shows Sakurai's commitment to make this game as big and wonderful as it is.

I still don't care and hold playable characters above all else in terms of series representation.

I'm not trying to be objective here it's just how I feel as a Zelda fan.

I still love those game but I'll always be burnt by how Zelda hasn't gotten an original newcomer since Melee.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,882
Houston, TX
Zelda is much more important then ARMS tho.
My point is that if they were saving characters for the next game, it shouldn't have stopped Sakurai from including an Assist Trophy of them now if we go by his logic with regards to the Spring Man AT (Sakurai didn't have much of a say regarding Fighters Pass character selection, so he gave ARMS whatever he could in the base game). The same logic applies when comparing the Champions to a potential XB2 rep.
 

Mgs2master2

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,862
Five characters revealed:
Joker
Jane (joker echo)
Akechi (joker echo)

one can dream right?
All there are one character above

DQ guy (name slips me;Jae echo)
Raiden (aka Jack since that's his actual name and it's a swerve of some kind at the moment)
Leon (or another RE character since they are coming to switch)
Banjo


I pray Steve doesn't come. I made a bet with a friend that he doesn't get added to smash
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,859
And that's all fine and dandy and shows Sakurai's commitment to make this game as big and wonderful as it is.

I still don't care and hold playable characters above all else in terms of series representation.

I'm not trying to be objective here it's just how I feel as a Zelda fan.

I still love those game but I'll always be burnt by how Zelda hasn't gotten an original newcomer since Melee.

Toon Link isn't categorized as an echo fighter.

And think about poor Yoshi fans. They haven't had a new fighter since Smash 64.
 

Ryce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,329
I haven't been following the latest developments too closely, but I thought the Jane file belonged to Joker? Why do people think it's referring to a separate character now?
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Well, Clay Shooting has the timed button press aspect to it that Geno Whirl would have; that's where the parallel comes from for me.

I figured Geno Whirl would be his FS since its his most iconic attack but I guess Geno Flash's transformation into a cannon to launch an exploding sun would be way more exciting.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
No Fire Emblem character is a side character.

The closet one is Lucina. Who can be described as 3rd billing in Awakening lol.

It's pretty ignorant to only count playable characters as "representation"
Again my problem is I think it's unfair that FE constantly gets new characters thanks to its narrative structure.

Again this is just me being salty as a Zelda fan. I also don't get why it's "ignorant" for me to be disappointed that Zelda still doesn't have a new unique newcomer. I don't see how an item from Skyward Sword that barley shows up and a stage is supposed to make me feel better about that.

Again I'm not going to declare that Sakurai is a hack and this is the worst game ever, I love this game and Sakurai might be one of my all time favorite gaming creators.

But I don't know why I can't be disappointed in some of the choices here.
 
Last edited:

Cian

One Winged Slayer
Member
Feb 17, 2018
581
Jane would make sense as a codename for a potential Lady Joker. "Jane Doe" being a pseudonym for a woman concealing her identity, lining up with Jack which works both as a playing card reference and a non-descript name for someone keeping their own name a secret.
 

Kirbivore

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,972
Jane would make sense as a codename for a potential Lady Joker. "Jane Doe" being a pseudonym for a woman concealing her identity, lining up with Jack which works both as a playing card reference and a non-descript name for someone keeping their own name a secret.

It's what I mentioned earlier but it didnt sink it.
 

KtotheRoc

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
56,859
I've played Resident Evil games. I enjoy Resident Evil games. But I'm not really hungry for Resident Evil content in Smash Bros.
 

Zubz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,565
no
Extra Fighter Pack:
  • 76 - Dixie Kong (Semi-Clone of Diddy)
  • 77 - Octoling (Semi-Clone of Inkling)
  • 78 - Geno (uses parts of Mii Gunner, Mega Man and Duck Hunt as a base)
  • 17ε - Impa (Skyward Sword design)
  • 57ε - Malos (XB2 should get any representation it can)
$14 USD for those five fighters and a few music tracks tied to each, but no new stages. Would you buy it?

As an alternate scenario, you can turn those last two fighters into proper Semi-Clones (of Sheik and Shulk respectively), but the price gets bumped up a bit. Does that change your purchase decision?

Oh good, I wasn't the only thinking of a bonus fighter pass. My guess was that there'd be extra Echoes as a bonus with Ms. Pac-Man, Rowlett, Impa, Octoling, & maybe semi-clones for Tails/Dixie, but I was actually thinking of a mini "Friendship with Microsoft" pass with an extra team brought on to throw in Master Chief, Steve, multiple Rare characters, &/or maybe Cuphead. Probably not Cuphead, but I'd want Cuphead.

I would buy that pass immediately, though, & would gladly pay the increased price for Impa to be a full character. I don't know who Malos is or what they'd entail, but I'm a completionist & would like having a full roster. And thanks to my foolhardy self buying a Fighter Pass, I'm already on track for that.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Again I feel like if Jane was a separate character then shouldn't it have shown up more then in just this file?

I admittedly know shit about programming but it seems like there was a few separate pieces for Jack and Brave by comparison.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,004
Again my problem is I think it's unfair that FE constantly gets new characters thanks to its narrative structure.

Again this is just me being salty as a Zelda. I also don't get why it's "ignorant" for me to be disappointed that Zelda still doesn't have a new unique newcomer. I don't see how an item from Skyward Sword that barley shows up and a stage is supposed to make me feel better about that.

Again I'm not going to declare that Sakurai is a hack and this is the worst game ever, I love this game and Sakurai might be one of my all time favorite gaming creators.

But I don't know why I can't be disappointed in some of the choices here.
Never said that. I said counting only playable characters as representation is ignorant.

You can be disappointed at the lack of Zelda Reps. Just don't be like Louisacommie and make up lies. (Which I'm not saying you are).
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I kinda feel like a second Fighters Pass is a given. This is the ultimate Smash Bros and I don't think it can feasibly be topped any time soon.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,119
Extra Fighter Pack:
  • 76 - Dixie Kong (Semi-Clone of Diddy)
  • 77 - Octoling (Semi-Clone of Inkling)
  • 78 - Geno (uses parts of Mii Gunner, Mega Man and Duck Hunt as a base)
  • 17ε - Impa (Skyward Sword design)
  • 57ε - Malos (XB2 should get any representation it can)
$14 USD for those five fighters and a few music tracks tied to each, but no new stages. Would you buy it?

As an alternate scenario, you can turn those last two fighters into proper Semi-Clones (of Sheik and Shulk respectively), but the price gets bumped up a bit. Does that change your purchase decision?
If we're going to get a Xenoblade 2 character from another pass why not just have it be Rex or Pyra/Mythra? Anyway I would be bummed out with no stages. Half of the reason I want a XC2 character is for another Xenoblade stage and more music from XC2, Torna, and maybe XCX