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Boomasoona

Member
Feb 3, 2019
46
The thing about the Erdrick/Ryu/Steve/Doom list is that the last 4 are all to some extent legacy characters. DQ and Ninja Gaiden are the two biggest NES franchses left and Doom is obviously one of the biggest and most important games ever that has plenty of history on Nintendo from the N64 to the switch. Even Minecraft is one of the most important/popular games ever and frankly is far more important to gaming today then Banjo. Banjo is only really relevant to Nintendo fans who were around during the N64 era and while that is a large group, Minecraft is exponentially larger.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,272
The thing about the Erdrick/Ryu/Steve/Doom list is that the last 4 are all to some extent legacy characters. DQ and Ninja Gaiden are the two biggest NES franchses left and Doom is obviously one of the biggest and most important games ever that has plenty of history on Nintendo from the N64 to the switch. Even Minecraft is one of the most important/popular games ever and frankly is far more important to gaming today then Banjo. Banjo is only really relevant to Nintendo fans who were around during the N64 era and while that is a large group, Minecraft is exponentially larger.

If the DLC was about reaching the widest audience possible, they wouldn't have put Joker in.
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,384
Sorry to kill the hype for female Joker, but I personally think based on how Smash does it's files there's no way that file is for that kind of thing.

So for every character's alt costumes there's specific files, starting with c00 for the default and going up to c07 for their last alt. For each and every character with a genderswap alt, the gender alternates between costumes, meaning the following is true of most characters with gender options:

Male: c00, c02, c04, c06
Female: c01, c03, c05, c07

The only exceptions are Inkling and WFT, but that's just because they're female by default so it's just the same thing reversed. So even if there was a female Joker, the file that's been datamined is a c06 file, meaning it's for a male Joker costume. So really, it gives us nothing. Joker would have to be female by default for it to be relevant, and there's no way in hell that's happening. More likely this is a file for something like the inevitable All-Out Attack Final Smash where Ann shows up or something.

It's associated with a specific color though, which seems odd if it were an Ann Final Smash cameo. The colors don't change any of the secondary characters aside from the Ice Climbers' partner, where they're around all the time.

It's not just the male/female costumes, alts in general are organized like that, like Bayonetta 1 and 2's skins. However, there are a few random exceptions, like Mario, Zero Suit Samus or Ridley having only two colors for their alternate models, which are thrown at the end for Mario and Samus, but only one of them is thrown there for Meta Ridley. So, we could end up with a scenario where we get 6 colors for male Joker and 2 for this new one or just an inconsistent arrangement compared to the other ones, something we already have in the base game (just not with the gender based alts).
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
So apparently the Erdrick/Steve/Ryu/Doomslayer list had "Erdrick" instead of "Loto" written in Japanese?
 

wildvine47

Member
Feb 20, 2018
1,094
Why is there a filename for "Jane," then?
Honestly, I have no idea, but considering it's for c06, which would be a male costume regardless, the only thing I know for certain is this file has no bearing on a female Joker existing.

My best guess if we look at it as a Joker-related file, is that Jane is a codename for Ann, who has big pigtails, and they simply used an animation base for ponytails to animate them. .mhcp is a filetype for creating hair after all, so it's possible there's just not a specific file for pigtails vs. ponytails.

The other possibility, which I find far more interesting, is that we're looking at two different files here that people are interpreting as one. This garbage data just grabs stuff from everything around it after all, so we have no reason to believe these are all related to Joker. After all, there's two filetype extensions in that string, which generally doesn't happen for just one file. If we look at it that way...

Jack6_C06_v01_070925.mb is already one completed filename as is, and .mb is a model file. This would be the model file for Joker's seventh costume, which is still in development considering the v01.
Jane1_pony_hairSystemShape2.mchp, when looked at separately, is a hair-related file for a character with the codename "Jane". This character potentially has a ponytail or similar hairstyle, and this file is a global animation for all of her different costumes considering the lack of a "c0_" within it.

Considering the way in which this information was obtained and the fact that there's two different file extensions in the same string, I think it's actually much more likely that Jane is another DLC character codename entirely. It's only being associated with Joker because this garbage data put it next to a Joker file. I think people should instead be looking at this as a separate file altogether and trying to figure out who "Jane" is independently of Joker.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
Honestly, I have no idea, but considering it's for c06, which would be a male costume regardless, the only thing I know for certain is this file has no bearing on a female Joker existing.

My best guess if we look at it as a Joker-related file, is that Jane is a codename for Ann, who has big pigtails, and they simply used an animation base for ponytails to animate them. .mhcp is a file for creating hair after all, so it's possible there's just not a specific file for pigtails vs. ponytails.

The other possibility, which I find far more interesting, is that we're looking at two different files here that people are interpreting as one. This garbage data just grabs stuff from everything around it after all, so we have no reason to believe these are all related to Joker. After all, there's two filetype extensions in that string, which generally doesn't happen for just one file. If we look at it that way...

Jack6_C06_v01_070925.mb is already one completed filename as is, and .mb is a model file. This would be the model file for Joker's seventh costume, which is still in development considering the v01.
Jane1_pony_hairSystemShape2.mchp, when looked at separately, is a hair-related file for a character with the codename "Jane". This character potentially has a ponytail or similar hairstyle, and this file is a global animation for all of her different costumes considering the lack of a "c0_" within it.

Considering the way in which this information was obtained and the fact that there's two different file extensions in the same string, I think it's actually much more likely that Jane is another DLC character codename entirely. It's only being associated with Joker because this garbage data put it next to a Joker file. I think people should instead be looking at this as a separate file altogether and trying to figure out who "Jane" is independently of Joker.

1061994-alexandra.jpg
 

MondoMega

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 10, 2018
47,477
The other possibility, which I find far more interesting, is that we're looking at two different files here that people are interpreting as one. This garbage data just grabs stuff from everything around it after all, so we have no reason to believe these are all related to Joker. After all, there's two filetype extensions in that string, which generally doesn't happen for just one file. If we look at it that way...

Jack6_C06_v01_070925.mb is already one completed filename as is, and .mb is a model file. This would be the model file for Joker's seventh costume, which is still in development considering the v01.
Jane1_pony_hairSystemShape2.mchp, when looked at separately, is a hair-related file for a character with the codename "Jane". This character potentially has a ponytail or similar hairstyle, and this file is a global animation for all of her different costumes considering the lack of a "c0_" within it.

Considering the way in which this information was obtained and the fact that there's two different file extensions in the same string, I think it's actually much more likely that Jane is another DLC character codename entirely. It's only being associated with Joker because this garbage data put it next to a Joker file. I think people should instead be looking at this as a separate file altogether and trying to figure out who "Jane" is independently of Joker.
That's... an interesting point that I haven't seen anyone bring up yet. They may very well be separate files.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
For fun. Let's pretend Jane is a code name for another DLC character lol.

Would love to see the guesses on that one.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,272
I don't think they would just so happen to have codenames for two separate characters that are so similar sounding. But that's just my conjecture.
 

ShinobiBk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 28, 2017
10,121
"Jane" is actually a misspelled Jade, who is the real Dragon Quest Smash rep.
Much better design than Erdrick, much easier to implement as a fighter without looking like yet another anime swordsman and also has a distinctly long ponytail.
 

Metto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,112
So the Jane thing could be a cool female alt for Joker or a female DLC character that would also dismantle the Steve rumor.

Both sound great to me but even though the easy answer is Lara Croft I feel Erdrick has already taken the Square spot for this go around do it's probably not her
 

Eulala

Member
Aug 8, 2018
710
If the Jane Pony Hair file name is indeed for a separate character....... Dixie Kong!?

But us Dixie fans have been burned before for SSB4 and again for Ultimate's base roster.
 

DecoReturns

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,003
"Jane" is actually a misspelled Jade, who is the real Dragon Quest Smash rep.
Much better design than Erdrick, much easier to implement as a fighter without looking like yet another anime swordsman and also has a distinctly long ponytail.
No. It's clearly Jade for Beyond Good and Evil.

That's your BG&E Nintendo exclusive.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
an unknown character with a ponytail, you say
F0JiCEf.gif
But they presumably want the DLC to sell though.
I'd buy it.

Also why does everyone keep saying "oh it's talking about Ann."

Ann has pigtails not a ponytail, there two different hairstyles people.

Also I don't think there'd be a character with such a similar code names to Joker unless they where related but that's just me. Especially since we haven't heard it anywhere else and there's only been mention of Brave till now.
 

Zubz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,565
no

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
It's a maya animation file. They probably don't have specific files for pigtails vs. ponytails to be honest.
I find that hard to believe to be honest. Why specify one if it's some vague hair program.

And why does it show up only here.

And why haven't we seen Jane anywhere else to my knowledge.

If it's about Ann why aren't there any files correlating to Ryuji or Morgana?
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,825
Sorry to kill the hype for female Joker, but I personally think based on how Smash does it's files there's no way that file is for that kind of thing.

So for every character's alt costumes there's specific files, starting with c00 for the default and going up to c07 for their last alt. For each and every character with a genderswap alt, the gender alternates between costumes, meaning the following is true of most characters with gender options:

Male: c00, c02, c04, c06
Female: c01, c03, c05, c07

The only exceptions are Inkling and WFT, but that's just because they're female by default so it's just the same thing reversed. So even if there was a female Joker, the file that's been datamined is a c06 file, meaning it's for a male Joker costume. So really, it gives us nothing. Joker would have to be female by default for it to be relevant, and there's no way in hell that's happening. More likely this is a file for something like the inevitable All-Out Attack Final Smash where Ann shows up or something.
People bring up the whole "this is for the Final Smash" but that doesn't make much sense as to why it'd be relegated to the sixth costume slot if that was the case, that seems more like it'd be an universal element. I also mentioned this earlier but Smash is really inconsistent when it comes to the way it treats certain alternates. Olimar and Ridley are some of the more notable instances of where the location of their alts just don't match up with how they're usually handled. Whatever it is for, I don't think the specific costume location really matters that much in the long run.
 

wildvine47

Member
Feb 20, 2018
1,094
I find that hard to believe to be honest. Why specify one if it's some vague hair program.

And why does it show up only here.

And why haven't we seen Jane anywhere else to my knowledge.

If it's about Ann why aren't there any files correlating to Ryuji or Morgana?
This string of text, which is all we have, is from within the stage files, known as .lvds. There's an error in their coding that causes these files, when saved, to record random junk data that was recently worked on to fill otherwise empty space in their code. The only reason we're getting any of this data at all is because it was worked on shortly before they saved the .lvd.

Considering Joker, Brave, and most likely Jane, are in development right now, it makes sense that their files will have been ones that were recently worked on. Also, before this leak, we only had one instance of Joker and Brave in the game as well.

In my opinion, those two were far enough for in-game testing, hence their parameters and stuff already being in the game, whereas Jane is early on enough where she's not ready for in game testing. They're still developing her animations and hair physics it seems.

If we're arguing this is files for hair for Ann, .mhcp files are just files used for modeling and animating hair. Online there exist variations on the file used for different kinds of hair intended for use as a template. They probably just grabbed a template for ponytails and used it to create Ann's hair, because there's not a lot of point to creating a file specifically for two pigtails when they can just copypaste the ponytail base within the file and have it work just fine.

As for why there wouldn't be Ryuji/Morgana files, that goes back to the way they were obtained. This person was just working on Ann's files before they updated a .lvd file and wasn't fiddling with the other two models.

Personally though, I think it's much more likely for this to be a different codename entirely and not related to Joker and Ann at all.
I also mentioned this earlier but Smash is really inconsistent when it comes to the way it treats certain alternates. Olimar and Ridley are some of the more notable instances of where the location of their alts just don't match up with how they're usually handled. Whatever it is for, I don't think the specific costume location really matters that much in the long run.

Alt costumes yes, but with genderswap characters they've been consistent. It alternates every other costume. There's no doubt in my mind this file has no bearing on a female Joker. If it does happen, it'd be completely unrelated to this particular file.
 
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Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,272
It's really hard to make out much of anything from datamines this vague.

I'll reserve further judgment until the inevitable Smash Direct.