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Iron_Maw

Banned
Nov 4, 2021
2,378
So the parliamentarian still hasn't approved everything? Then who gives a shit about Sanders talking nonsense? It's being discussed like he held up the vote.

Insulin cap for Medicare is in. The one for private insurance is what on the chopping in block of Rs call a point of order and vote against it which they will. So it's a W but in halfway.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,961
Sanders needs to justify his vote for the bill by shitting on it and soothing the hard-left with his "hesitancy" and "disappointment".

-Is he wrong? No.

-Does he know it's better than nothing? Yes.

It's all soap box grandstanding. He'll vote for it because there's no way in hell he's ever going to actually pass a fully progressive bill without 100% Democratic majority support and nuking the filibuster. Bernie has to play the same game everyone else does to keep his credibility intact with progressives.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,842
Sanders needs to justify his vote for the bill by shitting on it and soothing the hard-left with his "hesitancy" and "disappointment".

-Is he wrong? No.

-Does he know it's better than nothing? Yes.

It's all soap box grandstanding. He'll vote for it because there's no way in hell he's ever going to actually pass a fully progressive bill without 100% Democratic majority support and nuking the filibuster. Bernie has to play the same game everyone else does to keep his credibility intact with progressives.

He doesn't need to shit on the bill in the manner he did to justify he vote. He can talk all he wants about it being a disappointment and how we need more. What Bernie did was give the GOP an attack ad that undermines the goal of it being called the Inflation Reduction Act.
 
Oct 31, 2017
12,098
I think this conversation is beside the point.

All 50 Democrats are about to vote for a good bill. We're tackling climate change and can go to other countries with authority when we ask them to help. We're breaking down the prohibition of Medicare negotiating down drug prices.

Our votes mattered LFG. <3
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,961
He doesn't need to shit on the bill in the manner he did to justify he vote. He can talk all he wants about it being a disappointment and how we need more. What Bernie did was give the GOP an attack ad that undermines the goal of it being called the Inflation Reduction Act.

If it was called the "Inflation Elimination Act", THEN the GoP could have an actual debate and material content. But it isn't, and they don't.

It WILL reduce inflation and Bernie said it will have a "minimal impact" on inflation. The wording of the bill is correct, and Bernie's underselling of it is speculation, not calling it an outright lie. There's no material the GoP can use here.

Plus, propping up Bernie Sanders, even in a weak undermining attempt, would ultimately hurt the GoP, not help it.
 

TitlePending

The Fallen
Dec 26, 2018
5,340
Counter point - Bernie is giving coverage to the plan that it's not socialist (enough) and blunts an obviously line of Republican attack.
 

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,961
Counter counter point - Bernie bashing the bill publicly tells some progressives the bill doesn't go far enough so that means it's shit.

Progressive's aren't the threat to the bill. Moderates like Manchin and Sinema are.

Bernie's underselling it to progressives, is also selling it to the moderates at the same time.

I don't want to call this 4D chess, because I don't think it's THAT scripted, but it certainly falls into that category, even if accidentally.
 

Deleted member 11637

Oct 27, 2017
18,204
Counter point - Bernie is giving coverage to the plan that it's not socialist (enough) and blunts an obviously line of Republican attack.

Convincing squishy left voters to turn out is harder and more important than trying to convince moderates that Biden isn't a commie.
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
31,074
The cap for Medicare is in. It's the part that applies it to private insurers that's in debate since was not ok's by the SP. Dems still left in the bill to dare Rs to vote against it.
Yeah, having the gop on record voting against measures to control the sky rocketing prices of life saving insulin is pretty big
 

Iron_Maw

Banned
Nov 4, 2021
2,378
Surprised it was that close. That's... not a great sign for the GOP. They know it's an winning issue oof
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,914
3 republicans couldn't find it in them to lower insulin prices huh
 

TitlePending

The Fallen
Dec 26, 2018
5,340
Counter counter point - Bernie bashing the bill publicly tells some progressives the bill doesn't go far enough so that means it's shit.

I get that midterms are about getting out the base, but as we've seen in the Kansas abortion vote, these are unconventional times and there potentially a unique window where conservatives are open to hearing new ideas. So present this bill as moderate but firmly addressing popular issues while painting Republicans as the party governed by extremists without any actual policy solutions.
 

Aurizen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,596
Philly
Counter point - Bernie is giving coverage to the plan that it's not socialist (enough) and blunts an obviously line of Republican attack.
Agreed here. I think there isn't anything wrong with Bernie critiquing the bill. He should. He has to make points that are public on what's not included and what should be included. It does a lot of good but not much for working people and that's fair to point out. Bernie is an independent for a reason and doesn't want to fall in line with Dems or Republicans.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,680
Do they think Manchin and Sinema would have been on board with ignoring the parliamentarian?
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
You just can't overrule the parliamentarian or adopt popular amendments and expect the final vote to get to 50. We were warned about that going into it, but some don't want to understand.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
Wait so the insulin cap was removed? Or are they debating that part right now?
It is removed from private insurance because the parliamentarian said it was beyond the scope of budget reconciliation. That means it needed the usual 60 votes rather than 50+VP to pass. 7 Rs surprisingly voted to keep it in, but that was probably posturing, knowing that it would fail. The medicare cap remains.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
Counter point - Bernie is giving coverage to the plan that it's not socialist (enough) and blunts an obviously line of Republican attack.
He's saying that the Inflation Reduction Act does nothing for inflation, which feeds into the "Lying Dems" narrative.

Fox has already run headlines, and Republican senators and congressmen have already retweeted Sanders clips.

Really unhelpful during a time when we're supposed to toot our accomplishments as loudly as possible for midterms. He doesn't give a shit about that though. He also knows that moving further left on anything in the bill won't pass. It's called grandstanding.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,624
He's saying that the Inflation Reduction Act does nothing for inflation, which feeds into the "Lying Dems" narrative.

Fox has already run headlines, and Republican senators and congressmen have already retweeted Sanders clips.
Wait, hasn't there been reports by economists saying it does decrease inflation?
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,624
Yes, but he's basing it on the CBO scores. Moreover, he's going to vote for it anyway.
So he's saying something like this isn't enough?

Inflation Bill Would Cut Deficits By $102 Bln, CBO Estimates

The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 (H.R. 5376) would cut federal spending by $14.5 billion and raise $87 billion in revenue, reducing government deficits by nearly $102 billion over 10 years, the Congressional Budget Office estimated after reviewing the pending legislation.
Sorry, I'm not following this stuff closely.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
So he's saying something like this isn't enough?

Inflation Bill Would Cut Deficits By $102 Bln, CBO Estimates

The Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 (H.R. 5376) would cut federal spending by $14.5 billion and raise $87 billion in revenue, reducing government deficits by nearly $102 billion over 10 years, the Congressional Budget Office estimated after reviewing the pending legislation.
Sorry, I'm not following this stuff closely.
Yes, but he's criticizing the affect on inflation, not the deficit. The deficit is on track to fall by over $1t without the bill, iirc.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,570
Bernie, we fucking get it, now go sit down.

They're still voting on amendments. There was some hope Republicans would just throw in the towel with these by now but apparently not lol



It'll wrap up soon enough and then they'll vote
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