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Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings |Spoiler OT| Marvel Combat

touchfuzzy

touchfuzzy

Banned
Jul 27, 2019
1,706
I really liked the first half with interesting story telling and creative fight scenes.

I wasn't too hot on the second half when it swerved into being a mythological fantasy movie riding dragons and shit.
 
Devil

Devil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,716
Tuorom said:
I would have liked it if the cthulu monster stayed locked up
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I'd go even further and say the whole ending might have had much more impact if the Dweller didn't even exist. Imagine the father just being on the one hand so hurt by and felt guilty because of the death of his wife that he just keeps telling himself he needs to save her (do what he couldn't do before). And on the other hand he really just wanted an excuse to keep using the power of the rings he got used to for over 1000 years.

In the end fight he could have realized that he was wrong and needs to be stopped. Shang-Chi goes for a heavy blow expecting his father to defend or dodge but he doesn't because he wants to die. And he dies.

The Dweller is just some faceless monster nobody cares about. The ending could have been much more emotional by a smaller scale fight.
 
Stall_19

Stall_19

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,003
Didn't really read any spoilers or really know anything about the movie before watching it so the Ben Kingsley appearance got a huge pop from me. That reveal in Iron Man 3 was one of the funniest moments in any of these films.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,088
The more I think about it, the more it bugs me that Xialing was utterly secondary to the entire end of the film, only to get turned into a villain in the post-credits scene. We see her reconnect with her past and save her home, and the lesson she learns from it is "I should be an even bigger criminal"? Really?

Like yeah she's ruthless, but international crime lord ruthless? I didn't get that from the character as written, so the post-credit swerve felt both unearned and a disservice to the character we did get.
 
HustleBun

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,077
Really loved it. The only thing that I wish had been more balanced was the short of genre twist that it takes halfway through. The writing and the soul are not lost but I did start to miss the focus on choreographed hand-to-hand combat. Don't get me wrong, it was obvious and necessary that things were going to get more fantastical, I just wish it had been a bit more balanced.

Can't wait to see more of Shang-Chi though. Whatever the next big Marvel crossover event is, you know they'll give him the best fight scene.

Oh, and that was a solid post-credits scene. I have no idea what it references but I'm excited to find out.
 
dancingphlower

dancingphlower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,175
PlanetSmasher said:
The more I think about it, the more it bugs me that Xialing was utterly secondary to the entire end of the film, only to get turned into a villain in the post-credits scene. We see her reconnect with her past and save her home, and the lesson she learns from it is "I should be an even bigger criminal"? Really?

Like yeah she's ruthless, but international crime lord ruthless? I didn't get that from the character as written, so the post-credit swerve felt both unearned and a disservice to the character we did get.
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I think it's meant to be more ambiguous...it could go that way, but I guess we don't know quite yet? I feel like they'll be less like her father's and more an extension of her current enterprise. I liked the parallel of Shang-Chi getting the magical Ten Rings, but she got the Ten Rings as an organization.

I never got the sense that she wanted to walk away from the lifestyle she had built, and her time in the village felt like her being validated by her aunt as being an equal to her brother/father, and becoming an important figure in the world, criminal or otherwise is a way of showing that.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,088
dancingphlower said:
I think it's meant to be more ambiguous...it could go that way, but I guess we don't know quite yet? I feel like they'll be less like her father's and more an extension of her current enterprise. I liked the parallel of Shang-Chi getting the magical Ten Rings, but she got the Ten Rings as an organization.

I never got the sense that she wanted to walk away from the lifestyle she had built, and her time in the village felt like her being validated by her aunt as being an equal to her brother/father, and becoming an important figure in the world, criminal or otherwise is a way of showing that.
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I didn't think she wanted to get away from it, I thought she wanted to build her own thing and feel powerful in her own right, not just take over exactly where he left off.

I dunno. Maybe they're gonna swerve us the next time these characters come around, but "now I'm the leader of an international crime ring and terrorist organization!" doesn't feel like a heroic choice.
 
dancingphlower

dancingphlower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,175
PlanetSmasher said:
I didn't think she wanted to get away from it, I thought she wanted to build her own thing and feel powerful in her own right, not just take over exactly where he left off.

I dunno. Maybe they're gonna swerve us the next time these characters come around, but "now I'm the leader of an international crime ring and terrorist organization!" doesn't feel like a heroic choice.
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Part of Shang-Chi's character arc was acknowledging not just the legacy of his mother, but also his father...the good and the bad. I think what they were going for was a parallel with Xialing...she did (and does) want to feel powerful in her own right, but she's now acknowledged her own past as well in her own way. She's taking the old (Ten Rings empire) and the new (her Macau crew) and turning it into one newer thing, the way Shang-Chi combined the martial arts of Ta Lo (his mom) and the Ten Rings (his dad) to create a new style.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,088
dancingphlower said:
Part of Shang-Chi's character arc was acknowledging not just the legacy of his mother, but also his father...the good and the bad. I think what they were going for was a parallel with Xialing...she did (and does) want to feel powerful in her own right, but she's now acknowledged her own past as well in her own way. She's taking the old (Ten Rings empire) and the new (her Macau crew) and turning it into one newer thing, the way Shang-Chi combined the martial arts of Ta Lo (his mom) and the Ten Rings (his dad) to create a new style.
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Yeah. Fingers crossed she does more than just become the next one-off villain, or an annoying stumbling block for her brother in future movies. She deserves better than that.
 
Serpens007

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,135
Chile
PlanetSmasher said:
I didn't think she wanted to get away from it, I thought she wanted to build her own thing and feel powerful in her own right, not just take over exactly where he left off.

I dunno. Maybe they're gonna swerve us the next time these characters come around, but "now I'm the leader of an international crime ring and terrorist organization!" doesn't feel like a heroic choice.
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Yeah I'd be very surprised if she ends up being a complete villain, I guess she'll be more an anti-hero perhaps? She took over but the scene also showed bringing a lot of changes to the organization (even installing solar energy panels lol).
 
dancingphlower

dancingphlower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,175
PlanetSmasher said:
Yeah. Fingers crossed she does more than just become the next one-off villain, or an annoying stumbling block for her brother in future movies. She deserves better than that.
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Oh absolutely. If they waste her in future stories I'll be upset, but for now, I like where they've left her and I really hope she gets to be the protagonist of her own story. The end of the credits saying "The Ten Rings will return" instead of "Shang-Chi will return" gives me hope they'll give Xialing her due.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
Devil said:
I'd go even further and say the whole ending might have had much more impact if the Dweller didn't even exist. Imagine the father just being on the one hand so hurt by and felt guilty because of the death of his wife that he just keeps telling himself he needs to save her (do what he couldn't do before). And on the other hand he really just wanted an excuse to keep using the power of the rings he got used to for over 1000 years.

In the end fight he could have realized that he was wrong and needs to be stopped. Shang-Chi goes for a heavy blow expecting his father to defend or dodge but he doesn't because he wants to die. And he dies.

The Dweller is just some faceless monster nobody cares about. The ending could have been much more emotional by a smaller scale fight.
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Nah. I don't like this tbh. I mean the movie already was pretty predictable. This would have been even more so with almost zero spectacle as well. I enjoyed the fantasy elements.
 
F2BBm3ga

F2BBm3ga

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,088
Devil said:
I'd go even further and say the whole ending might have had much more impact if the Dweller didn't even exist. Imagine the father just being on the one hand so hurt by and felt guilty because of the death of his wife that he just keeps telling himself he needs to save her (do what he couldn't do before). And on the other hand he really just wanted an excuse to keep using the power of the rings he got used to for over 1000 years.

In the end fight he could have realized that he was wrong and needs to be stopped. Shang-Chi goes for a heavy blow expecting his father to defend or dodge but he doesn't because he wants to die. And he dies.

The Dweller is just some faceless monster nobody cares about. The ending could have been much more emotional by a smaller scale fight.
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yea no, the story as is makes more narrative sense than you're story of a son accidently killing his dad to add even more burden to his character. Makes shang chi character even worse imo.
 
LakeEarth

LakeEarth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,204
Ontario
I was just imaging telling myself about the Abomination cameo back when the first MCU Hulk movie came back. "He'll come back in a cameo fighting Wong in the Shang Chi movie", like there's no fucking way future me!
 
touchfuzzy

touchfuzzy

Banned
Jul 27, 2019
1,706
CurseVox said:
I really dug the mythological dragon riding bit. haha
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I didn't hate it, but it was just strange I guess? Like something I would've written as a story in elementary school lol.

It didn't help that my wife and I watched it over two nights, cutting off the first night pretty much exactly when they met Trevor. It was like watching two different movies.
 
cognizant

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
LakeEarth said:
I was just imaging telling myself about the Abomination cameo back when the first MCU Hulk movie came back. "He'll come back in a cameo fighting Wong in the Shang Chi movie", like there's no fucking way future me!
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Shit was way too random. I would've guessed him returning in She-Hulk, at least there's a tangential connection!
 
PanzerKraken

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,074
touchfuzzy said:
I really liked the first half with interesting story telling and creative fight scenes.

I wasn't too hot on the second half when it swerved into being a mythological fantasy movie riding dragons and shit.
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Basically this. First half was great, then the whole fantasy land stuff and DBZ stuff just kind of made it into a CG slog fest.
 
CurseVox

CurseVox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,356
Massachusetts (USA)
touchfuzzy said:
I didn't hate it, but it was just strange I guess? Like something I would've written as a story in elementary school lol.

It didn't help that my wife and I watched it over two nights, cutting off the first night pretty much exactly when they met Trevor. It was like watching two different movies.
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Ah yeah, well I can see that. I just liked the whole Chinese mythology thing wrapped around the characters with all these powers. Sort of a neat and fantastical origins story. I can see it moving away from that mostly, going forward. At least as a focus.
 
BasilZero

BasilZero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,529
Omni
I loved the movie

One of my most favorite first movies of heroes in the MCU

Better than black widow and Captain marvel (also enjoyed it more than iron man 1)

On the same level as black Panther which I also loved

Also love the post credits scene - avengers tease AND a new villain in the making for Shang chi
 
NeverWas

NeverWas

Member
Feb 28, 2019
2,624
I enjoyed it, but I definitely liked the first half more than the second. It felt like it just kind of turned into a Disney movie.

I very much appreciated seeing Landlord in it, though.
 
goshou

goshou

Member
Oct 28, 2017
36
Still one of my top 5 Marvel movies after seeing it for a 4th time now with D+. In fact I think the colors popped more on my 4k home screen than any of the 3 times at the different theatres.

I loved it because it really managed to capture my life-long love of HK martial arts cinema. Some inventive and fun hand to hand, some wuxia with floaty wirework, and culminating with a massive monster battle. We've come a long way since Wind fought a flame beast in Storm Riders, and I was loving every minute of it.

Very happy with the characters from top to bottom, no bad ones here. Shang and Katy's platonic friendship was great to see and I hope they keep it that way since I can never get enough of that sort of thing. Xialing was great and I have to give props to Meng'er Zhang; for a first time role she killed it. Tony Leung was outstanding as I expected and just watching how expressive he could be with just his face is always a treat. And there is never a time I won't love seeing Michelle Yeoh on the big screen. Everyone else from Jon Jon to Trevor to even Razorfist was well played and entertaining. Please give me more Marvel, I NEED it.

As far as the thought on the Ten Rings returning, I keep positing to my friends that hopefully Xialing will bring them back but not as a terrorist organization but as...The Ten "Rings". Maybe in a D+ show where she runs the greatest competition in the world, a sort of...Contest of Champions you might say. Could even have a famous Grandmaster join in as guest announcer. At least that's my big hope.
 
dancingphlower

dancingphlower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,175
goshou said:
Still one of my top 5 Marvel movies after seeing it for a 4th time now with D+. In fact I think the colors popped more on my 4k home screen than any of the 3 times at the different theatres.

I loved it because it really managed to capture my life-long love of HK martial arts cinema. Some inventive and fun hand to hand, some wuxia with floaty wirework, and culminating with a massive monster battle. We've come a long way since Wind fought a flame beast in Storm Riders, and I was loving every minute of it.

Very happy with the characters from top to bottom, no bad ones here. Shang and Katy's platonic friendship was great to see and I hope they keep it that way since I can never get enough of that sort of thing. Xialing was great and I have to give props to Meng'er Zhang; for a first time role she killed it. Tony Leung was outstanding as I expected and just watching how expressive he could be with just his face is always a treat. And there is never a time I won't love seeing Michelle Yeoh on the big screen. Everyone else from Jon Jon to Trevor to even Razorfist was well played and entertaining. Please give me more Marvel, I NEED it.

As far as the thought on the Ten Rings returning, I keep positing to my friends that hopefully Xialing will bring them back but not as a terrorist organization but as...The Ten "Rings". Maybe in a D+ show where she runs the greatest competition in the world, a sort of...Contest of Champions you might say. Could even have a famous Grandmaster join in as guest announcer. At least that's my big hope.
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Her running a bunch of tournaments would definitely be more in line with her previous enterprises and would make for less of a villainous turn for her... I'm all for it lol
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,750
My short and simple review of shang chi: It is a tier 2 marvel me movie for me.

1. Endgame, Infinity War, Black Panther, Spidermans, Winter soldier
2. Civil War, Guardians of the Galaxys, Shang Chi, and Thor 3
3. Everything else.

1 means untouchable, the GOATs
2 means I will go out of my way to watch again
3 I might watch them if they are on tbs and nothing else is going on.


I really like the family stuff in Shang Chi, I wanted more of Katy's family, more time with the village, etc. The final fight was amazing. My only real problem with the movie is that it felt it left a lot on the table. Where did the rings come from, how did they connect to the bigger bad?
 

TCB

Member
Oct 19, 2019
732
Slayven said:
I really like the family stuff in Shang Chi, I wanted more of Katy's family, more time with the village, etc. The final fight was amazing. My only real problem with the movie is that it felt it left a lot on the table. Where did the rings come from, how did they connect to the bigger bad?
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I thought all of the mythological stuff was fun, but it comes so late in the movie. Even though there's foreshadowing, it still feels like a second story being setup that requires a lot of late in the game exposition, but then everything with Shang-Chi and his father feels pushed to the side because of it. The movie starts with him needing to confront his father, his sister, his past, etc. and ends with him riding a dragon fighting a giant monster. I think aspects of the story got lost somewhere along that journey. I would have been happy if the movie ended with their fight in the temple. It also raises so many questions that don't have satisfying answers.

I think if it focused more on the family drama and the Ten Rings organization (how they operate, how much influence they have, etc.) as well as Wen Wu's history, it could have been a better movie. Build up to the dragon riding in a third film, lol.
 
GreenMamba

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,403
Yeah it's kinda funny that the movie is called "The Legend of the Ten Rings" when it's not really about the Ten Rings--the organization or the rings themselves--and is mostly about Ta Lo.
 
Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
So am I wrong in feeling that the mother was...morally questionable?

Dude she married was basically an evil warlord for 950 years or so when she met him...so, in the end, he was a chill dude for, like, the ten years or so they were in a relationship. So, like, for him she's more or less a one night stand relatively.

Just seems like maybe not the best husband material and a "I can change him" situation lol.
 
MadLaughter

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,165
LakeEarth said:
I was just imaging telling myself about the Abomination cameo back when the first MCU Hulk movie came back. "He'll come back in a cameo fighting Wong in the Shang Chi movie", like there's no fucking way future me!
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Yeah, I love when the MCU gives us these sentences

"Spider-Man carrying a full infinity gauntlet will websling on Mjolnir and then land on Valkyrie's pegasus" etc
 
Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
It's the Rider fan in me but I was disappointed Shang Chi didn't dispatch the Dweller in Darkness by summoning the rings and then doing a kick through them as his speed accelerates. That's fucking awesome and I thought they were setting that up but he just...does like the generic cause an explosion with hand motions. Boo.
 
Tuorom

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,998
Devil said:
I'd go even further and say the whole ending might have had much more impact if the Dweller didn't even exist. Imagine the father just being on the one hand so hurt by and felt guilty because of the death of his wife that he just keeps telling himself he needs to save her (do what he couldn't do before). And on the other hand he really just wanted an excuse to keep using the power of the rings he got used to for over 1000 years.

In the end fight he could have realized that he was wrong and needs to be stopped. Shang-Chi goes for a heavy blow expecting his father to defend or dodge but he doesn't because he wants to die. And he dies.

The Dweller is just some faceless monster nobody cares about. The ending could have been much more emotional by a smaller scale fight.
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100%
 
Benzychenz

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
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Nov 1, 2017
15,419
Australia
Is the origin of the rings and the beacon in the credits scene something we can theorise about from the comics or just unknown?
 
dancingphlower

dancingphlower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,175
Benzychenz

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
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Nov 1, 2017
15,419
Australia
onpoint

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
15,110
716
Birdie said:
So am I wrong in feeling that the mother was...morally questionable?

Dude she married was basically an evil warlord for 950 years or so when she met him...so, in the end, he was a chill dude for, like, the ten years or so they were in a relationship. So, like, for him she's more or less a one night stand relatively.

Just seems like maybe not the best husband material and a "I can change him" situation lol.
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Love that it was hand waved away as "… but love! * shrug * "
 
Birdie

Birdie

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
26,289
And like the mom from my understanding KNEW basically who he was and what all he did...

I mean love is love but at a point if you're married to a horrible person and aware that he is a horrible person I feel you're at some fault.
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,236
Birdie said:
So am I wrong in feeling that the mother was...morally questionable?

Dude she married was basically an evil warlord for 950 years or so when she met him...so, in the end, he was a chill dude for, like, the ten years or so they were in a relationship. So, like, for him she's more or less a one night stand relatively.

Just seems like maybe not the best husband material and a "I can change him" situation lol.
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Yes. I was going to say something about this but just didn't feel like putting in the effort to argue. Imagine marrying peak Stalin and being like, "I see good in him, people can change." I'm sorry, if you knowingly marry a mass murderer you are guilty by association.

Hell, it doesn't even seem like Tai Lo inhabitants are immortal so she has less defense. Wen Wu was around when "might makes right" was the global and social policy. I can understand him conquering a city and even putting every inhabitant to the sword because that's just what you did back then. And naturally, while he likely evolved over the years, it is somewhat understandable a 1,000 year old dude adheres to outdated morals.

But if wife was mortal then she must be judged by 21st century standards and by them her actions are HIGHLY questionable.
 
NaDannMaGoGo

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,009
Birdie said:
So am I wrong in feeling that the mother was...morally questionable?

Dude she married was basically an evil warlord for 950 years or so when she met him...so, in the end, he was a chill dude for, like, the ten years or so they were in a relationship. So, like, for him she's more or less a one night stand relatively.

Just seems like maybe not the best husband material and a "I can change him" situation lol.
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Yeah, I also kinda expected the (paraphrased) "he was the last I expected to fall in love with" line to be followed up by a reason that showed us why. Y'know, someone other than dancing up a good fight. But in the end she just couldn't resist his charming warlord bad boy allure.
 
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