Oh for fuck's sake. Of course we just have to have the "but where's the proof??" people in here.
Oh for fuck's sake. Of course we just have to have the "but where's the proof??" people in here.
Defending internet personalities is a full-time job.Oh for fuck's sake. Of course we just have to have the "but where's the proof??" people in here.
Post should have "accused" and not "known" in the title. Because neither those who believe Bobdunga or those who believe Alax actually know
Scott is signaling he believes Alax is not a rapist. Well, it's also possible Scott wants to support a person he believes is a rapist, but I find that unlikely.
is there proof of the claims? or is it just word of mouth from the girl making the accusations. I unnfortionatly got put in a situation where a girl lied about me on social media to try to get me 'cancelled' so I only trust these if there are hard evidence now. It's just too easy for people to lie about this stuff.
I wouldn't say Alex got out unscathed, as he lost quite a few working partners (as mentioned in the OP).Don't even think about pulling this shit here, wtf. First off, cancel culture is blatantly not a thing, especially the fact that people such as Projared and Alax can come back unscathed from pretty credible accusations of being horrid people (Jared for cheating on his wife, Alax for assaulting Raven) by posting a lame apology after ghosting their social medias for a few months and continue like nothing happened, and second, there is mountains of proof not only in the OP but from people Raven knows IRL, people who knew Alax like Aurum, etc. Don't even think about acting like you made a good faith reply because it isn't
Yeah that whole intro scene of YTers watching him taking notes on how to he a YT game person was cringe as fuck.Wow, didnt knew about this, unsuscribed yesterday because I was starting to get weird undertones from his videos (overuse of I am a virgin jokes, internet personality saving the world kinda like the nostalgia critic movie, etc.).
No, no, I don't want that circumstantial proof. Where is the hard proof?If only there was... oh I don't know, an original post, perhaps the first one in the very topic they're replying to, with various threads, with various threadmarks with various pieces of evidence.
On a more serious note, every apologist or incredulous person that reads this thread should check at least a couple of the links in first post of this thread before replying to this.
Sucks Scott did this but at this point I don't know how a statement would be able to address this especially after Bobdunga gave her anecdote about warning Scott about this. At best he's an overly loyal person who valued his shitty friend over the victims or someone who just didn't care about the victims in favor of his shitty friend. If nothing else his cameo was only one in literally hundreds so I'm not gonna scorn Scott too harshly over this but hopefully this is a learning experience to not have Alax be involved in his videos anymore.
We don't actually know if that's what happened. It's an assumption OP made. The reaching out could have very well have happened afterwards which changes the entire dynamic and what Scott's being accused of.If Bobdunga hadn't reached out to him personally, I would mostly agree with this stance. But damn, it takes something else to have someone reach out to you to tell you to not include their abuser in your vid, and for you to go through with it anyway
Also, one thing that doesn't appear to be entirely clear here is if Scott was made aware beforehand or afterwards of these accusations. Unfortunately there's no screenshot evidence of the DM exchange, but some people deliberately choose to leave up work they're not proud of anymore, seeing them as their individual artistic piece that they don't want to retouch. Given the way the rest of this appears to have come to all the other creators as a suprise, I suspect it might have been after but I can't say for sure.
(I've had this reasoning more or less explaind to me on the notion that if you have an artist revise small parts of their work, they will inevitably try reworking bigger things they take issue with, which will lead in a very negative downward spiral. This is why art museums don't ask artists to restore damaged paintings themselves; a museum tried it once and the entire painting was just flat out redone because the artist didn't like the old work. A lot of content creators as a result don't want to retouch their old videos because of this risk causing them to fall behind schedule as they basically do all the effort to create another video again.)
Some people are willing to upload revisions to their work, other people leave all their uploaded work as is.
I am not passing judgement on this belief either way; I am not a creator, I'm a software developer, my work is very different (we throw out old code all the time when it's open source or release and never ever look back until someone reports a critical bug 2 years later and you have to hunt down the person who wrote the old code and tell them it sucks and that person is usually yourself.)Anyone who actually feels that their artistic soul can't handle editing an abuser out of their freshly-released YouTube video is suffering from an extreme case of excess privilege and deserves whatever hate they get for it. People deserve to catch shit for being unwilling to be a righteous person.
And let's not act like this is the case of someone like George Lucas changing whether or not Han shot first repeatedly. If the creators of All the Money in the World were willing to move heaven and earth to remove Kevin Spacey from their 50 million dollar film, Scott the Woz can commit to removing this asshole from his YouTube video.
I mean I don't know how to take a message from someone who you know have some drama/beef with a friend you know that seems to be doing okay and all you were intending was just having a cameo then sure I can see why he brushed it off especially when all he really had was Alax's side. Still not excuse but I get it and maybe this will be a turning point to get Scott to cut Alax off for good considering all this cameo did was paint Scott in a bad light. If this was a proper collaboration than yeah this would be much more indefensible and he should've done more research into this.If Bobdunga hadn't reached out to him personally, I would mostly agree with this stance. But damn, it takes something else to have someone reach out to you to tell you to not include their abuser in your vid, and for you to go through with it anyway
That's because cancel culture doesn't exist and never has. If it did Louis CK and Chappelle wouldn't be still making Netflix specials. Actual accountability is extremely rare. More often than not a public flogging is just going to act as a boost in popularity for said person. Its exactly why right wing grifters have really clutched onto the term heavily this year. They can play the oppressed victim and garner more support from people.oh boy, a lot of "canceled" YouTuber just coming back after a few months or years... the bigger their fanbase, the easier for them to come back. We can only make them pay for their action for a moment with "cancel/take-responsibility-for-your-bad-action culture" but the truth is, a lot of people just don't care.
I feel there is an important distinction in scale here. Popular entities with fairly universally appealing audiences who get publicly flogged will often be able to bounce back and use the entire thing as a popularity boost (and frankly, I suspect a certain individual at the moment is deliberately causing as much controversy in the court of public opinion since they know they're big enough to bounce back from it. If you're wondering who, all I'll say is "minecraft speedrunner drama").That's because cancel culture doesn't exist and never has. If it did Louis CK and Chappelle wouldn't be still making Netflix specials. Actual accountability is extremely rare. More often than not a public flogging is just going to act as a boost in popularity for said person. Its exactly why right wing grifters have really clutched onto the term heavily this year. They can play the oppressed victim and garner more support from people.
We don't actually know if that's what happened. It's an assumption OP made. The reaching out could have very well have happened afterwards which changes the entire dynamic and what Scott's being accused of.
Note; this statement could be wrong in the future, but at the time of writing we just don't have evidence on that element either way.
I seriously think that he probably didn't even bother to do any check on it most YouTubers who do those cameos just do so to kind of give each other promotion and all that. I have no opinion further cuz I don't like the dude in the first place.
I am not saying that bobdunga is wrong actually. I am saying that people should look at what is actually written in her statements. All you can conclude from her statement (she just said one thing so permit me a little examination) is well:I appreciate how you're advocating for looking for hard facts through this situation as opposed to relying on hearsay. I think there's some room where you can make inferences that establish a likely narrative that we can work off until more information surfaces. While we don't have hard facts on the exact interchange between Raven and Scott, I don't see a reason to doubt Raven's account, especially given the previous circumstances and threads I engaged in about her story with Alax. Scott's current silence is also disconcerting
bobdunga on twt said:For the record, I dont blame anyone who appeared in that video, a lot of them had no idea that person would be featured. I just blame the person who posted and organized the entire thing. I told him what happened in the dms but he chose to ignore it
Having personally spoken with Bobdunga, I can confirm that she warned Scott about Alex more than a year ago in the hopes that Scott would speak out against him. Scott eventually unfollowed her at some point this year.Finally I want to ask Neoxon to see if he can update his OP to not include this assumption that he was contacted before hand (specifically this line: Bobdunga confirmed that she warned Scott about Alex prior to the video's creation), unless he has direct evidence to back that up, because people here who only read the OP are running wild with it and it could easily result in the entire situation becoming muddled as people will run on assumptions and well... assuming makes an ass of you and me..
This might be why but it still doesn't make up for the fact that the decision to have him was so incredibly stupid. Like there really is no excuse because at this stage he should know how the internet is. It doesn't matter how he feels, it matters what was done.I now have mixed feelings on Scott for a multitude of reasons, where weeks ago I felt like he was easily one of the most well-intentioned and likable gaming personalities in the YouTube stratosphere. Everyone whose judgement that I tend to trust, seemed to have vouched for him over the years as a very kind, charitable and friendly person. I felt even stronger seeing him as the first mainstream YouTuber (that I was aware of) to not only support BLM but to actually get outside and join protests.
I don't know why he did this.
I've been in complicated situations where a friend was in a very challenging spot, but my first instinct is always to listen to accusers first. And if Scott wanted to avoid any of this, the best move would be to just not include this individual.
Not sure what he can do to help the situation now. If RA is truly an old friend of his, he may be personally influenced by his version of events. But that's me speculating on nothing.
I hope he apologizes on some level, even if it won't satisfy most. If not, I hope he never includes that dude again.
No one is perfect but come on, at least demonstrate an ability to listen and to grow.
I see. That is quite damning and disconcerting. Of course, once again I am believing witness testimony here (now from you), but I am assuming good faith that you are speaking the truth here.Having personally spoken with Bobdunga, I can confirm that she warned Scott about Alex more than a year ago in the hopes that he would speak out against him. Scott eventually unfollowed her at some point this year.
A lot of YouTubers seem to get their shit outted in public; so to say he just "doesn't know" is seems more like consciously sticking your fingers in your ears and having your abuser-buddy's back. :/ The OP shows a tweet that says she was ignored despite reaching out. As is a lot of similar complaints about harassment women often face for just bringing up bullshit they deal with. It's ironic and shitty.
I am not actually doing that fwiw. I legitimately was looking for evidence and now I have some that I feel is substantial enough to feel like I can conclude something (cross-referencing Neoxons threads in OP suggests that him having been in contact with bobdunga is a plausible enough reality).I think if you want to do the above the least you can do is stay out of the way of people who have, constantly and repeatedly, seen this situation play out in the exact same way. If the court of law could be trusted to its damn job the court of public opinion wouldn't be so damn angry. Be insistent on information, though. That part's good, but don't use the search for information as a shield. ScottTheWoz isn't going to jail because he's allegedly being a shithead here, you've just got a lot of people mad at him for shit these guys get away with all the time.
Ah, I was not aware of this. I had heard about the accusations against Avidan, but that is a real relief to hear. Means I can finally enjoy Ninja Sex Party/Starbomb again without having that nagging voice at the back of my head.When the news about Game Grumps' Dan Avidan came out that he groomed a teenager and manipulated women for sex, I believed it in full. When it was later elaborated by the actual person involved that he hadn't groomed anyone, that the evidence of his manipulations was sourced from kiwifarms, and that this was mostly being driven by a subreddit where most posts are "bring Jon back the SJWs ruined Grumps", I went back to watching his work. I feel zero shame in this. I would prefer to live in a society that properly condemns sex abusers and not illegal but still scumbag predators, but I can't rely on that to work itself out, so instead all I can do is be supportive of these claims until such a time, hypothetically, it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they're false.
This doesn't really make Scott look worse. Hell under certain contexts it's actually a little more understandable why he did what he did.Having personally spoken with Bobdunga, I can confirm that she warned Scott about Alex more than a year ago in the hopes that Scott would speak out against him. Scott eventually unfollowed her at some point this year.
Ah, I was not aware of this. I had heard about the accusations against Avidan, but that is a real relief to hear. Means I can finally enjoy Ninja Sex Party/Starbomb again without having that nagging voice at the back of my head.
If anything, it's worse. He knew well ahead of time about the allegations, & she wasn't the only one to speak out against Alex. The fact that he ignored all of that to side with Alex is a problem in & of itself. The easy way out would've been to not include Alex in the video at all if Scott was really that conflicted. By including him, not only is he saying that Alex his actions were ok, but he's also ignoring the pleas of his victims (the irony of which was mentioned in the OP).This doesn't really make Scott look worse. Hell under certain contexts it's actually a little more understandable why he did what he did.
If he had an entire year to marinate on it and hear both sides out but having a more personal connection with one then it makes sense why he decided to stick with Alax considering he's more personal with Alax than Bobdunga and it would be a lot easier for him to convince Scott it was just a messy breakup. If anything kind of feel sorry for Scott he got himself tied up with this because of Alax
Maybe I just have a different frame of reference here, but from what I can tell nearly every celebrity from the 80s and 90s has had incidents like that, so ghosting someone doesn't quite concern me that much to have a permanent nagging voice at the back of my mind like "this person has slept with people who may not be legal and/or has engaged in dubious consent" tends to do that makes it impossible to enjoy their content. Granted, I don't actually watch grumps, I just liked Starbomb a lot.It was still a bad look for him and put me off watching the grumps, unless the part about sleeping around and ghosting them after was also fabricated. Everyone makes "mistakes", but that changed how I saw them.
It was still a bad look for him and put me off watching the grumps, unless the part about sleeping around and ghosting them after was also fabricated. Everyone makes "mistakes", but that changed how I saw them.
If anything, it's worse. He knew well ahead of time about the allegations, & she wasn't the only one to speak out against Alex. The fact that he ignored all of that to side with Alex is a problem in & of itself. The easy way out would've been to not include Alex in the video at all if Scott was really that conflicted. By including him, not only is he saying that Alex his actions were ok, but he's also ignoring the pleas of his victims (the irony of which was mentioned in the OP).