Poll: Are indie games today overall better then SNES games?

[Poised Turtoise]

Some of my favorite games this decade have been indies. For me personally they are what have made this console generation despite certain GaaS trends I'm not crazy about, and many days have been enjoyed lazing about, combing through my PSNPlus backlog or exploring eshop and playing some indies. It's been a huge part of why this gen has been probably my favorite of all time.

Now, my other disputable favorite generation was the one that I experienced as a little infant and have revisited time and time again.....I grew up on an SNESwith a pretty well choreographed collection of games thanks to a ( loveable) older brother. Loved playing squares JRPGs, with the help of my brother Yoshis Island was well loved, Mario was cool too even though he hit my Yoshi, Super Metroid, cool licensed titles, Capcom/Konami, so much more. Amazing console.

look how cute the baby mario is

one of the GOATS

But games like Celeste, Hollowknight, Cuphead, Shovelknight, Towerfall, Undertale would have been universally lauded no matter what generation of gaming they'd have been released in. Cuphead has a stronger art direction than was ever possible with genius branding, Celeste is a tighter platformer imo then anything released back then, towerfall would've blown many of the other couch co op alternatives out of the water.

c'mon, gorgeous

wait where'd you come from?

Although it is certainly an unfair comparison in some ways, in other ways it's not. Yes Hollowknight had the conveniences of modern technology, but it also had less then a handful of people working on it as many of these titles have. SNES stands as many of Eras favorite generation from what I can tell so am curious how you guys feel todays indies stack up overall. Have the best indies of the last decade hit a point where together they could compete with the best titles of the Fourth Generation? Against what some consider the prime of Square, Konami, Capcom....Nintendo? What say u Era?

EDIT: really the discussion is more about retro games vs. indie games, but alas the poll has been made

 

[Deleted member 54320]

I didn't grow up with the SNES since I was born in 97. However, I now own a SNES and quite a few games along with it as well.

I've played near enough all of the "classics" but yeah, I would say indie games are overall "better". They're usually more convenient to play as well.

 

[pagrab]

Many of them play and look better, but they lack the obvious factor that made some of the SNES games mindblowing - they do not push the hardware. I think that whether we like this or not, this aspect always contributes to something being considered a classic.

 

[Jonneh]

Good games are good games no matter when they came out. Some indies are better than SNES games, some SNES games are better than indie games

You can broaden the range beyond the term "indie". Are Modern games overall better than A Link to the Past?

 

[Platy]

It is a complex comparsion because SNES lasted way less than the indie window you are taking from. And the already mentioned power difference.... but the main thing is : Most indie games would not have existed back in the snes days. Metroidvania was not a genre. Platform fighter was not a genre. Masocore platforming was not a genre.

And yeah, snes has lots of shit in it's library xD

 

[Deleted member 2254]

Yeah, definitely. There's some SNES games that aged gracefully all around (except maybe for the resolution), but many are hampered by archaic game systems too, something that doesn't happen to today's good indies. Stuff like Cuphead, Rogue Legacy, Ori And The Blind Forest, Hollow Knight, Yoku's Island Express, etc. absolutely blow out of the water nearly anything even remotely comparable from the era thanks to a brilliant artstyle, tight gameplay and modern game design elements that make 'em more enjoyable long-term.

 

[Mbolibombo]

Top indies are better than most AAA games so it's a weird question really.

Top games are top games, no matter how it's developed or published.

 

[JuicyPlayer]

What if SNES developers had the hardware indie developers have now with no cartridge limitations?

 

[Lant_War]

Depends on the games and the genres.

 

[shadowman16]

Some indie games are amazing (like the ones in the OP) so yeah, some are better than Snes games. Some indie games are not as good as Snes games (or not good games full stop). Good games should be timeless, like Yoshi's Island, Zelda 3, Mega Man X etc. Still as great today as the day they were released (or in X's and Yoshi's case, I appreciate them even more now as all sequels to either have never hit those lofty highs the original games managed)

 

[Psamtik]

Not SNES, but Gunstar Heroes is better than Cuphead.

 

[Simon-chan]

Super Metroid is still the GOAT, so no.

 

[Rosebud]

Yes, SNES has some big gems, but we have these in an yearly basis with indies.

I mean, just in 2018: Celeste, Obra Dinn, Inoclasts, Into the Breach, Frostpunk, Moss, Dead Cells, Far: Lone Sails, Guacamelee 2........

 

[Pineconn]

Some SNES games are excellent; some indie games are excellent. Some SNES games are crap; some indie games are crap.

The biggest difference is the change in the gaming landscape over... a quarter century. Design principles have changed. (For example, arcade-like difficulty and hardcore backtracking aren't well received, I'd say.)

 

[Deleted member 51789]

The best indie titles been able to compete with the best SNES games for years now

 

[Fireblend]

This is a weird comparison to make. When something was made has no bearing on how good it is, unless you're very technically-oriented and want to argue for graphics. Indie games have the numbers advantage here, so yeah I don't think it's a fair or logical comparison to make at all.

 

[Duffking]

High Quality Indie games as we know them today have been going a lot longer than the SNES was around for, and are on a wide variety of platforms. So yeah. There's only a small number of SNES titles I'd really want to play today, 15-20. But more indies than that.

 

[Oscarzx n]

Most 2D indie games seem to be roguelikes or Metroidvanias and there are not that many of those games on Snes, so it's hard to compare.

 

[Poised Turtoise]

Good games are good games no matter when they came out. Some indies are better than SNES games, some SNES games are better than indie games

You can broaden the range beyond the term "indie". Are Modern games overall better than A Link to the Past?

Click to shrink...

But are there more quality indies then SNES games or quality SNES games then indies I guess is what I'm wondering how people feel about. I could broaden the terms but like some have said and as I honestly believe, some indie games coming out are some of the best games of all time for me at least...just like some SNES games. So I guess I wanted to focus more in on that discussion

 

[Aaron D.]

Good games are good games no matter when they came out. Some indies are better than SNES games, some SNES games are better than indie games

Click to shrink...

Pretty much this.

Many indies have naturally lapped SNES-era titles in fidelity, depth, size & scope. But that doesn't take anything away or diminish the greatness of 16-bit titles themselves.

Also worth noting is SNES titles are a product of their time. A era when they represented the absolute pinnacle of game tech & design. So while Zelda: LttP may look on the surface like a well-polished modern indie, at the time it was by all intents a fully AAA production representing the best the medium could offer by that point. As such, regardless of comparative tech & design specs between then and now, in the minds and hearts of those around to appreciate the 16-bit era in real time, the classics will always be (perhaps emotionally) 1:1 against big-budget modern AAA productions.

Context is important.

 

[Santar]

What a weird question.
There are both good indie games and good snes games and also bad ones.
I do feel that a lot of pixel style indie games feel like they don't really get what was so great about those snes era games apart from the visual style though. I've lost count of how many poorly playing retro stylized games with beautiful pixel art I've played now.

 

[Cactuar]

For me it's about feel, and that's a no. If you are young, which I suspect many of you are, you see Secret of Mana or something like that as an "indie" game or you compare it to "indie" games. When in reality if you played the game when they actually came out, SoM was top of the line. It's only "indie" in retrospect. Sure a small group of indie devs can make a technically "better" game than a 30 year old Super Metroid, but it will never have the impact Super Metroid had because it was a game of it's actual time, and a high watermark for it's time and a peak experience for 30 years ago. Any Metroid-inspired indie now can be great because it can copy past the formula, but it will not have the innovations that made the originator stand out. I've played many Castlevania, Metroid, and Ninja Gaiden inspired games and I think they're fun, but if you think they're better than the originals you are only looking at them comparing a 2019 game to a 1988 one, when you should be comparing what it was like to play said game for the first time in 1988.

 

[Bjones]

its just harder to make a snes game than it is a game today which i think accounts for alot. you had to have talented and smart people to make a game back in the day compared to today where all you need is a game maker app and know javascript.

 

[Qwark]

I think generally I'd side with SNES, the best SNES games are better than the best modern Indie games, imo. But it's definitely dependent on the game, there's greats in both camps.

Also, that screenshot made me realize, I like Stardew, but I really think it looks kind of ugly.

 

[Fifstar]

Not sure how to measure this. I know that as a teenager I had more fun playing SNES than I had fun playing various indie games in the last 10-15 years.

Now if we try to compare the quality of the snes catalogue with all indie games it gets tougher to answer. Doesn't really make sense in my head.

 

[BossLackey]

Indies today are probably better on the whole. But there are some undeniable classics on the SNES that stand toe to toe with the very best indie games, if not beats them out.

 

['3y Kingdom]

A related, more apropos question would be: Are AAA games today overall better than SNES games?

And then: Are indie games today overall better than AAA games?

 

[D.Lo]

The best 10% of SNES games > The best modern indie games > The average modern indie games > The average SNES game

Like, no indie game has ever been as good as Yoshi's Island, Super Metroid, Chrono Trigger etc. But there was plenty of junk on SNES, and modern indie junk is likely to have better QOL features.

 

[Deleted member 51789]

I've played many Castlevania, Metroid, and Ninja Gaiden inspired games and I think they're fun, but if you think they're better than the originals you are only looking at them comparing a 2019 game to a 1988 one, when you should be comparing what it was like to play said game for the first time in 1988.

Click to shrink...

I kind of disagree with this statement - I don't necessarily think context matters if you're comparing one game to another and saying which you personally think is better, the older games' impact and how it played in 1988 is kind of irrelevant.

 

[Rndom Grenadez]

The best indie titles been able to compete with the best SNES games for years now

Click to shrink...

Super Metroid, Super Mario World, Link to the Past and Yoshi's Island would care to disagree, and this is coming from somone who adores indies.

 

[shadowman16]

Some SNES games are excellent; some indie games are excellent. Some SNES games are crap; some indie games are crap.

The biggest difference is the change in the gaming landscape over... a quarter century. Design principles have changed. (For example, arcade-like difficulty and hardcore backtracking aren't well received, I'd say.)

Click to shrink...

Agree 100% with the first bit. For the difficulty thing, Im glad we still get challenging games, but it does feel they are (for the most part) more fairly designed than some of the arcade games I've been playing recently which definitely don't feel as finely tune difficulty wise (though still possible to 1CC, if your damn good)

 

[Deleted member 51789]

Super Metroid, Super Mario World, Link to the Past and Yoshi's Island would care to disagree, and this is coming from somone who adores indies.

Click to shrink...

I love Nintendo games, but I don;t think any of those titles are untouchable by indie games

 

[PrimeBeef]

SNES. On one hand there were crazy amounts amazing SNES games and crazy amounts of shitty SNES games.

On the other hand there are crazy amounts of amazing indie games and exponentially more shit indie games. Just by sure volume, the current indie scene is overall worse.

 

[Deleted member 17952]

If we're factoring in technical limitations, then the SNES games were better.

 

[tommyv2]

Super Metroid, Super Mario World, Link to the Past and Yoshi's Island would care to disagree, and this is coming from somone who adores indies.

Click to shrink...

Exactly this. Nothing touches these games.

 

[Lothars]

No Indie Games haven't hit the highes of the SNES libraries. There are some fantastic indie games but SNES games are better overall.

 

[Poised Turtoise]

Super Metroid, Super Mario World, Link to the Past and Yoshi's Island would care to disagree, and this is coming from somone who adores indies.

Click to shrink...

Many think Hollowknight stands toe to toe with Super metroid/SoTN on era. Celeste imo can stand up to some of the best 2d mario has to offer too


I do think as far as JRPGs and Zelda likes go indie games have yet to have a stand out replicate, but they do awesome in other places

 

[Segafreak]

Some of my favorite games this decade have been indies. For me personally they are what have made this console generation despite certain GaaS trends I'm not crazy about, and many days have been enjoyed lazing about, combing through my PSNPlus backlog or exploring eshop and playing some indies. It's been a huge part of why this gen has been probably my favorite of all time.

Now, my other disputable favorite generation was the one that I experienced as a little infant and have revisited time and time again.....I grew up on an SNESwith a pretty well choreographed collection of games thanks to a ( loveable) older brother. Loved playing squares JRPGs, with the help of my brother Yoshis Island was well loved, Mario was cool too even though he hit my Yoshi, Super Metroid, cool licensed titles, Capcom/Konami, so much more. Amazing console.

look how cute the baby mario is

one of the GOATS

But games like Celeste, Hollowknight, Cuphead, Shovelknight, Towerfall, Undertale would have been universally lauded no matter what generation of gaming they'd have been released in. Cuphead has a stronger art direction than was ever possible with genius branding, Celeste is a tighter platformer imo then anything released back then, towerfall would've blown many of the other couch co op alternatives out of the water.

c'mon, gorgeous

wait where'd you come from?

Although it is certainly an unfair comparison in some ways, in other ways it's not. Yes Hollowknight had the conveniences of modern technology, but it also had less then a handful of people working on it as many of these titles have. SNES stands as many of Eras favorite generation from what I can tell so am curious how you guys feel todays indies stack up overall. Have the best indies of the last decade hit a point where together they could compete with the best titles of the Fourth Generation? Against what some consider the prime of Square, Konami, Capcom....Nintendo? What say u Era?

Click to shrink...

You posted like the 3 best looking indies, outside a few, most indies don't look good visually and not anywhere close to Snes level sprite art. More like Atari 2600 era fat pixels mixed with modern looking effects and particles.

 

[JudgmentJay]

SNES is probably my favorite console of all time, but I still have to give it to indies. There are an incredible amount of solid 8-10/10 indie games.

 

[Aaron D.]

And then: Are indie games today overall better than AAA games?

Click to shrink...

A subjective question, but for my tastes that's a resounding YES! :p

 

[Dogui]

Thread is kinda confusing, dunno exactly if the discussion is about the visuals of the games or the games being good. Looks like the thread title and the OP implies different things.

Indies are overall better than nowadays AAA games, also. When the game is good, it will be regardless of platform or budget anyway.

 

[The Albatross]

I said I'm not sure. Kinda comparing apples to oranges.

"SNES games" is a very broad spectrum of games, hundreds of them, some of which are really high quality games that have stood ~25 years of comparisons. "Indie Games," the ones in the OP, are like... a handful of games over the last few years which are all excellent by today's standards.

I think when people mention SNES or Genesis (or whatever generation they comprise) as like "Greatest generation of games ever," they're not only thinking of Link to the Past, Super Mario World, Super Metroid, Sonic 2, Earthbound, etc., but there's also a tremendous variety of other games that are easy to skip over because there have been sequels or the genre is less common today ... NHL 95, Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo, NBA Jam, Ken Griffey Jr, etc, and hundreds more games that have largely all been forgotten... Games you'd rent for a weekend or buy used from Funcoland that were odd (Cool Spot is a good example, a game that nobody who wasn't alive in the 90s would even really have heard of unless you're really into discovering classic games ... It was a 7-up licensed videogame that was also great). There was a ton of variety from that generation, and while you could probably pick "the best indie games of the last 5 years" and compare them to games from any generation -- especially this SNES/Genesis generation because so many indie games are now sort of throwbacks to concepts introduced then -- it's tough to compare when you broaden it out to the huge variety of games.

I think games like Hollow Knight, Celeste, Guac, and so on, can all stand up against any of the classics from the SNES era... but a lot of these games stand on the shoulders of games from that era. The recent 'MetroidVania' explosion of the last ~5 years (or w/e) would not exist without concepts introduced by original games in the 16-bit or 32-bit era. Like, you could try to pick the best modern indie platformer ... say ... Celeste, or something, and then compare it to the top platform games from the 16-bit era, maybe Super Mario World or Rocket Knight Adventures (or whatever your faves are), and Celeste does things that no game from that era does... Tight platforming, terrific art, great controls (things all those games had), but also a really compelling grown up storyline interspersed into the game (something that almost no platforming game did in the 90s). So, sure, maybe Celeste is better, but it's a hard comparison because Celeste wouldn't be Celeste without those 1990s games setting the template for how to make great platforming games.

One thing that the modern indies have now is that just about every game has a well developed or at least present story. THat's something that most action platformers really didn't have in the 16-bit era. In the 16-bit era, almost every action platformer was "You are a hero who has to save victims from an evil bad guy." Full stop. The storylines were similar to VVVVV or Super Meat Boy, which is to say, they really didn't exist. Your motivation for wanting to be Sonic the Hedgehog was "You are a RADICAL HEDGEHOG who has to defeat an EVIL SCIENTIST and save ANIMAL FRIENDS." Imagine trying to sell a 1990s audience on Celeste, "You are a socially unsure, anxiety-rattled spelunker who has to climb a mountain." But, Celeste has such a terrific, well written story and with Sonic there is no story other than the premise, but it's just something that action platformer games didn't do 25 years ago.

 

[Herb Alpert]

That is some weird generalization.
Some snes games are better, some indie games are better.

I don't really see the point of such a comparison honestly.

 

[808s & Villainy]

What if SNES developers had the hardware indie developers have now with no cartridge limitations?

Click to shrink...

Lol a lot of those developers are still around in the industry

 

[Clive]

Absolutely but there are some SNES games that hold up incredibly well too. I also feel like the Japanese boss design and music from that era is often amazing. It also varies by genre. Modern indie platformers and metroidvanias are often of exceptional quality while Zelda-likes and JRPGs fall short of the SNES era's. Writing is a mixed bag for both indies and SNES games.

I also hold the controversial(?) opinion that SNES games were often too hard. I can't finish all SNES games without save states while modern indies generally have better accessibility. It's great that you can see everything a game has to offer without practicing for years.

 

[Omegasquash]

The convenience of modern technology made it way easier to create something that can outperform an SNES game in size and scope. Thus, less than a handful of people can do things thanks to the work that's been done by the people that came before them.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Honestly, "better" is just a matter of opinion. I'd submit that Rogue Legacy and Hollow Knight wouldn't even exist without Metroid, Castlevania, and so on.

 

[Poised Turtoise]

You posted like the 3 best looking indies, outside a few, most indies don't look good visually and not anywhere close to Snes level sprite art. More like Atari 2600 era fat pixels mixed with modern looking effects and particles.

Click to shrink...

Not sure what you're talkin about dude, some of the best looking games of today are indie

 

[Deleted member 24540]

When you discovered mirror/dark world in ALttP the first time it was a genuine revelation and when they do something analogous nowadays it's like a cute throwback or something without any weight attached to it, and in some cases you even expect it so how can it possibly be a surprise to you? As such SNES games have the advantage of having done everything first, so that many indie titles are merely variations of things you've already experienced before. If you rearrange the order and let someone play all the indie classics first, and then the SNES games, you might experience a different response altogether.

 

[Slamtastic]

Context matters a lot.

SNES games are more impressive because of the limitations if their development compared to today.

Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.

 

[Dary]

There are certainly some great indie games out there, but I feel like most of the ones I've played have suffered from the same problem: they're drawing their inspiration from other video games.

When he designed Harvest Moon, Yasuhiro Wada drew on his experiences of growing up in rural Japan - while Stardew Valley feels like it's based on growing up playing Harvest Moon.