The defense force for this game is willing to outright pervert the narrative to discredit criticism at this point.
Pokemon Co. says "There is no way we will stray from basic elements" with Pokemon Let's Go
- Thread starter Mcjmetroid
- Start date
I've never seen a worse opinion about a series. Thank god you don't work at GF and thank god 2019 is coming and for sure not abandoning a series basic.
I Love Persona games but removing the Persona battles would be great. just let me effortlessly catch demons. great idea.
Nothing is for everyone.
Let's Go is obviously for the new generation of Pokemon fans, mostly comprised of Pokemon Go fans. It's the reason they knew to say that the core RPG is also coming next year, even though they didn't have a single shred of information to speak about or show.
Why is the go-to assumption that these people are dumb?
Yeah its a propaganda conspiracy. Im making fun of the idea of people expecting Game Freak to cater to hardcore Pokemon fans in this game, they dont even cater to us in the real games lol
They said "we are targeting casual and younger audience that dont usually play video games". Some of you guys are basically expecting the game to be something it clearly isn't, and are rationalizing anger or criticism based on some presumed promise to do these things which doesn't exist. Literally WrenchNinja said Game Freak is lying to people.
This game isnt meant for us. A lot of whats in the mainline games isnt even meant for us...These people made X and Y. Why is it crazy exactly that they think we would enjoy this casual thing for kids that dont even play games?
Nobody is saying the game needs to cater to the hardcore. Literally nobody. We just don't want to be shunned outright while still being expected to purchase the game.
I'm not saying Gamefreak is apart of a conspiracy , but it being targeted to casuals and younger people kinda of makes no sense to me?
One, because why would the orginal 150 appeal to younger audiences, younger audiences are probably watching with not that , and maybe have played other games. And the older audience, I don't think a game that with a bunch of extra crap piled onto it would make them play this, I think a new version of fire read and leaf green would be enough. And if they are that casual, I don't see them leaving go for this .
Who is this game for? I'm not saying it needs to cater to the hardcore, I don't really care about that. I have been confused about this games messaging and its target demo from jump
What do you call saying one thing and saying something that contradicts that thing?
Because difficulty or handholding isn't the only fucking problem. They reduced the mons back down to 150 for no fucking reason. No wild battles. Can't evolve original kanto mons that have new evos just because. Etc. They're just removing content for no reason at all and it's garbage. No other remake did this. Pokemon Go already has more than 150 so why is this one stuck like that? It's shit.
Literally every Pokemon game before this one was aimed at everyone. Its only now that people have been actively excluded, which is why the "BUT ITS FOR THE CHILDREN!" argument is bullshit.
You are mistaking things that aren't for your taste personally to be some sort of affront to you, or being shunned.
I am a hardcore Pokemon fan and I will enjoy this game and am looking forward to it.
Yup.
I actually don't mind them experimenting with new systems and streamlined capture mechanics.
But if they think that's what drew people into go.... Ho boy are they wrong.
The game was successful because it was social, open, play it your way, and tied to a popular IP.
They got the IP part right. They're getting everything else WRONG. Pokemon go had basically ZERO tutorials and ZERO handholding.
It was show don't tell with intuitive design. Instead, they think casual players need restrictions.
To me it's unbelievable how many folks in game development get this completely wrong.
it would be more like fighting low level single shadows on the bottom floor of the big dungeon but forced into them via random encounters. Catching Pokemon, especially on routes was never a challenge and caves just warranted buying lots of repels. Since Persona doesn't use trainer battles and you're going to be fighting 99% standard shadows, that comparison doesn't really make sense.
After handholding and Kanto pandering were already beginning to suffocate the 3DS games, they make a spin-off dressed up like a mainline game that cranks those aspects up to 11, with GO mechanics as icing on the cake, and they expect core fans to just trust them? Nah.
I'm giving them some benefit on the doubt right now because they seem to recognize that they've made something that core fans don't want, but trust is something they're going to have to re-earn.
I'm giving them some benefit on the doubt right now because they seem to recognize that they've made something that core fans don't want, but trust is something they're going to have to re-earn.
The Treehouse showing looked abysmal. Even beyond no wild battles, it's much more simplified and hand-holdy than I originally thought, which is certainly an achievement for a Pokemon game of all things.
I mean, the game is aimed primarily at:
- Pokemon Go (a f2p phone game) players OR people who have never played Pokemon, who are willing to spend $360 on a Switch + the game to play it, but were unwilling to spend less on a 3DS and any number of Pokemon games to play those, because they were too complex.
I have no doubt that the game will sell well, mainly on the backs of people just wanting a new Switch game or some of the core players who want to give it a chance. But I feel the audience the game is actually aiming for is extremely tiny.
I mean, the game is aimed primarily at:
- Pokemon Go (a f2p phone game) players OR people who have never played Pokemon, who are willing to spend $360 on a Switch + the game to play it, but were unwilling to spend less on a 3DS and any number of Pokemon games to play those, because they were too complex.
I have no doubt that the game will sell well, mainly on the backs of people just wanting a new Switch game or some of the core players who want to give it a chance. But I feel the audience the game is actually aiming for is extremely tiny.
Which also makes me wary. If, as they've already said, the 2019 game started design and development before Let's Go and in theory shouldn't be affected much by Let's Go design decisions why don't they show more of it, even if just a small glimpse? Why every reference they make to it reads like desperate preemptive damage control and pretty much fodder for the corporate apologists to try to shut down discussion about Let's Go? What guarantees do we have that one year and a half before release (enough to develop a whole new game from scratch) they're not already reworking and stripping whole chunks out of it due to the apparent success of Let's Go, the pre-order numbers and the "good" reception of holding Mew hostage behind a 50€ toy?
This is a more fair point for sure.
Changes have been made that - lets call it "streamline" - the Pokémon experience to a certain level. Some of them already seem like really cool changes, some raise questions about depth and whatever. Again, I think that's fine and entirely reasonable to question. But lets be honest here, there are some (and again, this thread isn't an exception) who convey disappointment in such changes by just shouting about it because it doesn't meet their expectations, whatever those are, while showing absolutely zero attempt to understand who might benefit.
For context, my excitement for Pokémon Lets Go is twofold. I'm excited to play it because I'm a lapsed fan and a sucker for nostalgia, and it seems like a fun thing to toy around with to tickle my nostalgia for Red/Blue/Yellow. More than that though, I'm mostly excited because I have a child and step child who both really like Pokémon, and who will be 6 and 5 respectively by the time this comes out. This will be their first "proper" Pokémon experience, and I think that's really cool. As far as I can see, most of the changes in Lets Go from the "mainline" games are intended to directly serve that exact purpose. You're right to question how some of this stuff fits in with "good game design", but too many aren't doing enough to understand how and why these changes benefit the wider audience they're going for in this game.
Hey, I emphasize might because I don't really think they are willing to fully balance it out.
One of the biggest drawbacks in the entire series is how much of a cakewalk every single trainer battle turns out to be. Fighting 6v2 battles for dozens of hours is boring. Individual battles never become a challenge until the very end, or specific stuff like Flying battles.
I want to believe that if they are going to cut that core loop out, they plan to make it up somewhere else. Adjusting the challenge so that players spend more time in trainer battles makes the most sense. However, Game Freak never really develop according to logic so who knows...
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I think they're fairly sure the regular Pokemon player will buy this as it's the first true Pokemon game on a new system.
+ They're aiming for the Pokemon Go Audience
+ They're aiming at people that used to play Pokemon 20 years ago and have some nostalgia for it.
It's actually quite a good broad aim I think and I can totally see how it would go down well in a board meeting Doesn't mean I have to like it. Games like this though I can understand what they're going for.
For example a game like that Command and Conquer mobile game EA showed off at E3 I'm absolutely clueless who they're aiming at.
People seem to think the restrictions on Pokemon in place for these titles were done to appeal to a certain crowd, but I'm not so certain.
I think that the decision to only include gen 1 Pokemon and Alolan forms was made first and foremost with workload and time constraints in mind for what should be a relatively small side title.
Appealing to any particular crowd is a secondary concern.
Is there anything in any of the released interviews that contradicts this?
I think that the decision to only include gen 1 Pokemon and Alolan forms was made first and foremost with workload and time constraints in mind for what should be a relatively small side title.
Appealing to any particular crowd is a secondary concern.
Is there anything in any of the released interviews that contradicts this?
Every Pokémon game is for everyone. Every generation of Pokémon creates new fans. So remind me why the kids introduced with Gen 7, a gen that's only a year and a half old, are being told they can't bring their Incineroar into this game.
Nintendo of Europe sent me a huge questionnaire on the game yesterday that just looked like they are kinda worried about the reception of this. I don't understand why, but then again, I am still one of the people that is excited about it.
They had this bizarre question in which they made me read a whole ad to tell them if I liked it. seemed kinda weird, I mean, it's not like Nintendo never marketed a Pokemon game before.
They had this bizarre question in which they made me read a whole ad to tell them if I liked it. seemed kinda weird, I mean, it's not like Nintendo never marketed a Pokemon game before.
As a long time Pokemon fan I'm not worried about not fighting wild pokemons. If they removed battles entirely I would be really pissed of.
But removing only the wild pokemon ones, and maintaining the rest of them seems like a smart decision. Lessens the grind.
Every Pokemon is for the new generation of Pokemon fans. This is because of Pokemon Go popularity and a brilliant idea of someone at Pokemon Go who don't understand that Pokemon Go popularity is because it's unique free social game and a twist of regular gaming with the idea of catching Pokemon in the real world. Pokemon Let's Go is just a regular Pokemon game with stripped features. great job Pokemon Co.
Yeah i trust them.
Neither GF nor Pokemon CO have yet to sell me a game i didnt enjoy.
Besides, with how full of hate this forum is for these games, that just makes me more certain that i will like them, since most of the games i enjoy are hated by this forum.
Neither GF nor Pokemon CO have yet to sell me a game i didnt enjoy.
Besides, with how full of hate this forum is for these games, that just makes me more certain that i will like them, since most of the games i enjoy are hated by this forum.
This pretty much, Masuda outright stated that they were trying to appeal to both party.
Game Freak have said some nonsense statement in the past and them trying to fool everyone by claiming that Let's Go is a core series when it's so clearly a spin off.
Game Freak is trying to have their cake and eat it.
When you say removing Wild battle are you referring to battling wild Pokémon or random wild encounter because there's a big different between the two.
Removing random wild encounter in favour of having them spawn on the field is actually not a that bad of an ideal but removing wild battle in favour of a mini game that's not only time consuming but is going to get old very fast is just downright dumb when wild battle is actually quicker to deal with.
Good one, that actually made me laugh.
I don't think they are seeing this as a bad thing though, if anything this is their dream game.
I wasnt disagreeing. I cant stand jrpg grind and Persona 5 was an absolute chore to finish.
How does it lessen the grind when they just changed the grind to having to do a minigame and catch Pokémon instead?
Just want to chime in, because I see this point being made a lot and it really doesn't make any sense whatsoever: The real games already being announced does not absolve these games of all criticism. Stop saying this like it is reasonable in any way, people can, very, very rightly, dump on these games for what they've been presented to be. If you don't like it, tough, shouting down the negativity doesn't do anything for anyone besides get start pointless arguments over semantics. You don't need to defend Gamefreak and their decisions, shit happens, they're a company, they'll be fine.
Y'all like to pretend that these threads are bad because people aren't happy about the games, well guess what? It takes two to tango. If you can't discuss the games without down playing the things that are wrong with them whenever they're brought up, or without calling people babies for not being as excited as you are, that's 100% a "you" problem.
Y'all like to pretend that these threads are bad because people aren't happy about the games, well guess what? It takes two to tango. If you can't discuss the games without down playing the things that are wrong with them whenever they're brought up, or without calling people babies for not being as excited as you are, that's 100% a "you" problem.
I need to see proof of this. I mean backlash is a strong word but I have seen misgiving and concerns in Japanese communities, they're just not as anal and annoying about it as some English ones.
Well yes, the developers are who decide if a game is main series or not.
I thought the gen 4 games when i was a kid were excessive with the handholding, I don't know what I'd have made of some of the stuff in this one. this is baby's first Pokemon when the games were already easy enough for actual children
I'm not really sure who all the handholding is aimed at honestly. Minecraft is one of the most popular games with kids ever and that definitely didn't have handholding
I'm not really sure who all the handholding is aimed at honestly. Minecraft is one of the most popular games with kids ever and that definitely didn't have handholding
Maybe but imo removing random encounters would be enough. I'm ok though if there's still plenty of trainer fighting and if trainers.
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I'm concerned about the lack of Wild Battles and the Exp Share(Is this optional?)
I mean I'm not sure why they could have still had the Pokemon roaming around the overworld( Which I love) but Keep the wild battles. Instead of simplifying the game they have now created 2 completely different gameplay styles. One where you physically motion your controllers based on a ring on the screen and another where you cycle through menus for attacks without motion. I think this has made it more complicated and fans that are coming back to the series after so long are going to be confused by this.
I mean who doesn't already know you gotta weaken the Pokemon first and then throw your ball?
Pokemon Go fans accepted this because it was a free mobile game but as a full priced console/handheld game I believe people are gonna be weirded out by the changes.
This game is for people who played Pokemon Go, like they said, and an even younger more casual audience than usual...they know the original 150. Ask Serebii. and .... this is a new version of Fire Red and Leaf Green, isnt it?
Well first of all you are completely excluding the very obvious possibility of a misunderstanding, on your part? Where is the contradiction? You think that because you don't like things about the game that its no longer "for everyone"? These people thought you would enjoy X and Y and Sun and Moon too, why not this? Their intent has been stated, if you are expecting this to NOT cater to a younger, more casual audience, then you are outright ignoring what they are saying, they didnt lie to you, they told you what to expect.
Sure, I mean, this is just getting into criticisms about video games, which is fine to have? Lots of pokemon games have lots of shit decisions. This one is for an even younger, more casual audience than usual. We don't really know how future Pokemon integration/interaction with other gens or potential expansions will work. I'm not saying you can't have criticisms, Im making fun of the idea that this is supposed to be a traditional title, or that them saying its for everyone means we should expect Game Freak to make us happy, they arent even good at that on a regular day. The idea that this is a defense force, that im perverting a narrative, or other nonsense, is bullshit. Some people want to ignore what they are saying or say they are lying instead of trying to make sense of it or using their eyes and looking at the games.
Like I said, I was put off personally at reveal. Im now looking forward to it and hoping its a fun diversion and that the 2019 games blow us away....hoping...
I agree completely. Battling Pokemon before catching them, isn't great and just a waste of time. Either busy work trying to find the Pokemon you want, getting the health down, just throw Pokeballs until it works and finally grinding. The only part, which is exciting, is trying to getting the health down and properly accidentally killing the Pokemon.
Game Freak should look into making catching Pokemon more exciting, faster and still keep the tension. Maybe the Pokemon GO mechanic is too simple, but there are could be better and multiple ways in catching them. Some Pokemon you can just catch, some do you need to beat in a battles, others are just hard to find, some need a completely different mini-game to beat, etc. There may be a lot of say of different Pokemons, in the way you need to catch them.
The heart of the game is in the end catching and training them. Not almost beating them into giving up.
Which, from everything we've seen so far, are one-offs with no opportunity to battle them again.
So it's really just replacing one grind for another.
and a mini game of Pokeball throw is a good idea instead of improving the system?
With this logic, battling trainers in routes are a waste of time because they aren't Gym leaders.
How Young
My cousin is 5 and plays pokemon on 3ds, and watches the anime
They want toddlers, they want to stream Pokemon directly into the womb? Pokemon already has the youth market
Also I mena, with out the waggle stuff and the go, stuff and the pokeball thing. Just a 3d version of Fire Red and Leaf Green
Its actually very strange though. Once it was for the casual, then for the kids and now for a new audience.
if only because its entirely optional which and when you engage with, yeah. Its probably going to wear just as thin but this type of player agency is certainly something new here.
In a perfect world, trainers would pose some challenge, give good xp and money. Wild Pokemon have always been less appealing than even the mindlessly easy trainer fights. Going through 50 random encounters to get Pikachu to appear isnt exactly fun either.
I know. My point was that they weren't removing any kind of grind, they just changed it to another kind.
I did enjoy X and Y and Sun and Moon. These games are doing something those games didn't do though. Something that hasn't been done since Gen 3.
They want the idea of your child in your head to already be a Pokemon fan