yeah and even then worst case may only mean a couple of scenes in the game etc.
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Yup, around that.
And because it isn't exactly linear it takes quite a chunk off power draw.
Predictable and containable.
I'm kind of expecting something like:
90% 2.23
9.9% 2.1
0.1% 2
I expect that it'll happen but it'll be so rare that it's not even worth pointing out.
he said 2% for worst case.
thats 44 mhz. so it would drop from 2,230 mhz to 2,186 mhz.
the only issue i have with this is his statement saying 2 ghz was looking impossible. and that 3.5 ghz was looking impossible. well, xbox has 3.6 ghz and fixed clocks so what did they do that made it so possible with fixed clocks?
for gpu, is he saying that some instructions were hotter than others? so they wont be running those instructions at 2 or 2+ ghz? how would that impact performance?
we need to see the overall TDP budget of this thing. if this thing is a 150w gpu then there is zero cause for concern.
EDIT: I just realized that DF said third party devs were already running the gpu at 2.23 ghz albeit while downclocking the cpu. but cpu power savings are so small, i am pretty sure the ps5 cooling system can handle the gpu running at 2.23 ghz regardless of what instructions are being fed. cerny did tell richard that the final retail unit will handle everything gracefully without needing clock profiles or input from devs to downclock cpu to feed the gpu enough power. it should just work.
I don't recall him saying that was the worst case. Just him giving an example that we don't expect major drops, because frequency drops cause basically near cubic drops in power.
Cerny is kinda weird with his statements sometimes, so maybe he meant when they were originally designing the console 2ghz seemed impossible, but it turned out that wasn't true.
The combination of the two. vs just having to choose one or the other.
yeah, its the only thing thats a bit confusing in his 50 minute talk.
and i just added this as an edit in my original post in case you missed it.
EDIT: I just realized that DF said third party devs were already running the gpu at 2.23 ghz albeit while downclocking the cpu. but cpu power savings are so small, i am pretty sure the ps5 cooling system can handle the gpu running at 2.23 ghz regardless of what instructions are being fed. cerny did tell richard that the final retail unit will handle everything gracefully without needing clock profiles or input from devs to downclock cpu to feed the gpu enough power. it should just work.
yeah he didnt really put a number on what the percentage points would be.
The Road to PS5
PS5 lead system architect Mark Cerny provides a deep dive into PS5’s system architecture and how it will shape the future of games.
youtu.be
i think what you placed as the clocks percentages of the time makes sense at a minimum expectation.
And the point is to bring it to Windows. So no, the point isn't on PC to "bruteforce it" and bringing a narrative that "thanks to secret sauce, those 8 cores Zen 2 CPUs on consoles will perform the same as 16 cores Zen 2 CPUs".
As for your second sentence, nothing indicate that. In fact, in the Microsoft article, both of those aspects (the hardware decompression block and DirectStorage API) were under two different sections.
Yeah, the dev units probably have the profiles built in so that devs can manually trigger "what if" and work around it.
what do you think needs to make use of an API? processor time.
here is the full quote. im not creating this narrative.
its saving a 'ton of cpu' because of this additional hardware. not just because they updated a software API. its basically what Epic did with UE5 when they say they rewrote the entire i/o logic to take advantage of the ps5 i/o. yes its software but its relying on dedicated ps5 i/o hardware to save on the cpu processing time.
otherwise, you could technically have direct storage or ps5's unreal engine 5 i/o logic run on the xbox one and ps4 while taking only a fraction of a jaguar core. hell, why stop there. port direct storage to the switch and have that become a 2.4 gbps ssd.
and they totally missed " The final component in the triumvirate is an extension to DirectX - DirectStorage "
it still will take some CPU time.
I know. The point is to reduce the CPU time.
Yes you are. Hence your previous post. Then again, I guess we'll see in a few months.
1 gift from Transistor
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Again they have a power envelope to reach and I think he means 2Ghz wasn't possible at the power envelope/yield they want to reach. He said the GPU clock is capped maybe if the power envelope was higher they can reach a higher clock. We need to wait for RDNA GPU to be sure of it.
Transistor thanks for putting up with the nonsense and for gifting us ~fun~ avatars, and now this! Your generosity knows no bounds.
???
Dismissing Microsoft's BC HDR technique without even looking into what they are doing is...well, it's your prerogative. But it's pretty closed-minded.
And they're working with 11bit or 16bit source data, not 8 bit, like a TV would have access to.
All Xbox Games May Have HDR on Series X, Select XB1 Games to Get Resolution Enhancements Through BC (No Work Needed From Devs + Testing Unlocked FPS)
I've been speaking to them about it. It's super sophisticated and extends the work done by the Coalition on Gears 5. With Gears they trained an AI to look at SDR and HDR output frames of various games and understand what the difference in colour space transform was: So HDR became the ground...
www.resetera.com
"the advantage with doing it at a source level, is that it is possible to have access to the original 11bit or 16bit data including, rather than have to apply it as a post-process to an 8bit image - which doesn't contain enough data to avoid banding."
Just make a few more posts in here and you'll be good. We do it to discourage people from taking advantage of community giveaways, but since you have an avatar of mine, it's all good :P
Awesome giveaway Transistor. Won't join since I am not in the US but I am hoping one of the best (worst) of you avatars win!
Mine isn't that bad either. Still wish I had gotten the fuck you mars avatar, haha.
You're more likely to hit the 'worst case' at two points in the console's lifespan - right at the start and right at the end. At the start because documentation is spotty, there are kludged-together workarounds to get things to work the way you think they're supposed to - or need to for the rest of the code, and it's the 'whole new world' of figuring out how everything works best. At the end because you've figured out all that stuff - for the most part, there's still a lot of 'that just works, leave it alone' commented blocks - and are just pushing the limits or past the limits of what the hardware can handle.
Or at any time if you're bethesda. I assume engines like theirs or even rdr/gta engine will have issues staying under the power envelope.
Oh, dang. I'm still a junior? Guess I should post more. I signed up when Era opened so I guess it's post count. :(
Great gesture, Transistor! You're so cool, Brewster!
Its the overall power budget in my opinion that makes the difference between Xbox's fixed frequency's. They have to get the whole system within a specific power envelope for the consumer PSU and heat budget etc. All that extra stuff the Tempest engine the specialised IO interfaces must take up a lot of that extra power. CPU's arent generally using all their threads and clocks all the time, it would in general be really difficult to use all the a CPU's threads all of the time. It could be like in a single a millisecond the CPU has finished its jobs so it down clocks and gives over its power to the GPU and they go backwards and forwards several times each one downclocking and upclocking all within the time it takes to create a single frame. But in general the the CPU wont be doing much, threads will be idle and long milliseconds spent doing nothing, and so the GPU will likely be spending that power budget to keep its max clockspeed the majority of the time.
Transistor is more amazing than Cerny's voice.
edit: how much do i have to participate in this thread to enter the raffle?
double edit: reading this page more answered my question :D
edit: how much do i have to participate in this thread to enter the raffle?
double edit: reading this page more answered my question :D
Is it only for those that got an avatar from you? Lol. Ill have to cancel my entry.
I took it to mean that the XSX simply has a larger power/thermal budget, since he mentioned the CPU and the thermals there were probably more of a known quantity early in development. From the context I did get the distinct impression he was talking about the variable clocks making the difference between hitting those speeds and not.
2GHz was impossible because it was a fixed clock, so the console would have to run at 2GHz at high workloads and would probably shutdown.
Thanks for the giveway Transistor, da real MVP
I don't think 2GHz is the base clock, I believe there's no base clock at all. If the code consumes so much power that it needs to run at 1.6GHz (or whatever number) then it will run at 1.6GHz. The catch is that devs will know when that worst case scenario will happen and have the choice to make a better code if they really need the compute power.
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