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L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,111
I'm not gay myself, so my opinion doesn't hold much weight, but there are people in this thread that are gay which don't see this as homophobic.
So by that logic, the only people who should be able to discuss in this thread are gay people. Yes?
OK then, you deluded little moron.
So I just have to say that as a straight dude, while people have disagreed with me in this thread, I feel utterly unoppressed here. Yes, what I say has less weight, but that's okay. It's also not the same as not being able to talk.

I can explain why this, to my understanding, might have been seen as offensive by others. I can explain why I think it could be harmful. I can talk about how you should understand that a fictional world is created by real people and thereby anything that exists or happens within it is understood as a deliberate choice. I don't think anyone's ever gotten upset at me for doing these kinds of things.

But I'm not free to tell gay people that they aren't oppressed when they try to explain to me that they are. It's not up to me to decide what they feel about things. That's not a painful thing for me to have to give up.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
3,726
Germany
Persona 5 R is still chock full of problematic stuff huh? Can you still date your teacher too?
No one bothered to reply so I will. Yes. I stayed up to 3:30 am to finish the stream by Tim Barry and completed the game myself twice. Lala (the barkeeper) now has a voice but Tim fast-forwarded through that part, so others will have to judge. Sae (the mid-20s prosecutor) is now a low key love interest too as she gives you chocolate after Valentine's Day. The most modern Atlus thing ever and a callback to an anime OVA. All the female characters you got to lev. 10 do the same, so it´s fair to call P5 a harem game. Lol.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Like I don't know why you guys expect anything promoting intelligence from Atlus now
dtAq_IdCJHNVyf4kcBniW3USVF0qiONe6wMi-BKC3x0.jpg


045b6ada6589fd98eb216df45dfd0ad6.jpg
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
I keep having to bring this up when these threads happen, I'm gonna bring it up again: this is not an isolated incident even IF you don't mind it.

Every Persona team game since the original Persona 3 has had some sort of homophobic/transphobic element.
Persona 3, a trans panic scene.
Persona 3 fes, where they don't fix the problems in the original.
Persona 4 with Yosuke's attitude towards Kanji, Kanji's arc resolution, and the hot mess that is Naoto and having to force them to conform to their sex to romance them.
Persona 3 Portable, as much as the FeMC route is actually good somehow, the Male MC route remains a problem.
Persona 4 golden, again not fixing problems with the original.
Catherine and its transphobic treatment of its trans character.
Persona 5, the gay predators.
Catherine full body, doubling down on the transphobia.
Persona 5 Royal, not fixing problems with the original.

And then several games outside this team but still from Atlus also feature problems, such as SMT Nocturne.

This is not an accident. This is a trend. Every time I see people go "maybe it will be better with the next game", but this isn't "whoops we didn't do our research properly", this is "homophobia/transphobia sells, we can keep doing this because we don't care about who it hurts". I can't stress enough that this isn't normal!

This

And enough with that "Japanese doesn't care" or "this is just how Japan is" nonsense

Tons of Japanese creators care, and more every day. Atlus doesn't, and it's dumb to conflate Atlus with "all of Japan"
 
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May 13, 2019
1,589
I think it effectively illustrates that despite some of Sega's pro-LGBT actions, they don't do anything to rock the boat if they think they can get away with it. They are content to let Atlus do what they want as long as their business model remains profitable.
This is pretty much the conclusion I arrived to after the last thread where this topic was brought up. Basically Sega doesn't think that Atlus' homophobia/transphobia is going to hurt the company's bottom line and as such doesn't see the point in meddling with them.

Hell, I'd dare to say that Sega's LGBT support is empty lipservice since they do not put the money where their mouths are when it comes to Atlus. You cannot make a big deal of removing offensive material in one of your games while others get to keep theirs with nary a reason.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,222
This

And enough with that "Japanese doesn't care" or "this is just how Japan is" nonsense

Tons of Japanese creators care, and more every day. Atlus doesn't, and it's dumb to conflate Atlus with "all of Japan"

It doesn't seem like a significant enough portion of Japanese consumers of Atlus games care that much, which is all that matters to Atlus really.
 

Liferebooted

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 13, 2017
209
User Banned (1 week): Dismissing concerns of homophobia
Its an amazing game it'll always be known as one of the best JRPGs of the last decade.
 

Neoleo2143

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,463
Its an amazing game it'll always be known as one of the best JRPGs of the last decade.

I'm not sure about that. It feels like there's more of tide against it and it doesn't necessarily execute its greatest ideas the best it could. Plus you, know all the hurtful content Atlus keeps putting in their games inevitably will have people in the future give it the side-eye.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
Its an amazing game it'll always be known as one of the best JRPGs of the last decade.

Pretty sure Atlus managed to piss away a lot of the goodwill they built up in the West during the last 2 gens with hardcore gamers, given how poorly the P5 spinoffs have sold

And goodwill matters when nobody will give them benefit of the doubt. This thread is proof of that. Even people who are passionate about their games <---- won't bother defending them.

It's sad how things turned out
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,635
I think it effectively illustrates that despite some of Sega's pro-LGBT actions, they don't do anything to rock the boat if they think they can get away with it. They are content to let Atlus do what they want as long as their business model remains profitable.
This is pretty much the conclusion I arrived to after the last thread where this topic was brought up. Basically Sega doesn't think that Atlus' homophobia/transphobia is going to hurt the company's bottom line and as such doesn't see the point in meddling with them.

Hell, I'd dare to say that Sega's LGBT support is empty lipservice since they do not put the money where their mouths are when it comes to Atlus. You cannot make a big deal of removing offensive material in one of your games while others get to keep theirs with nary a reason.
Honestly I think it's more that Sega wants to give Atlus complete freedom when they are making their games.

I remember there being some worries that Sega will meddle with Atlus and hurt the quality of their games when Sega first acquired Atlus, and I remember them reassuring people back then that Atlus will continue to work the same way they did without any interruptions from Sega and it seems like they are living up to that promise for better or (in cases like this) for worse.
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,300
REMEMBER THAT THE YAKUZA TEAM REMOVED THE TRANSPHOBIC ELEMENTS FROM YAKUZA 3 DURING THE RE-RELEASE CAUSE THEY KNEW IT WAS GROSS AND OFFENSIVE

AND THEY ALSO GAVE US THIS

47p596aizyq31.png
 

Inugami

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,995
REMEMBER THAT THE YAKUZA TEAM REMOVED THE TRANSPHOBIC ELEMENTS FROM YAKUZA 3 DURING THE RE-RELEASE CAUSE THEY KNEW IT WAS GROSS AND OFFENSIVE

AND THEY ALSO GAVE US THIS

47p596aizyq31.png
As someone just getting into Yakuza due to humble bundle... This is good stuff, and now I want to get more once I finish Kiwari.
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,635
What's the Shiho stuff? Can't find it in this thread
Here:
There's a cognitive version of her in the Kamoshida boss fight who wears a skimpy bunny outfit and is weak to physical attacks.
Isn't this
the same character who wore a long sleeve shirt / turtleneck to hide bruises covered in bandages because she was physically and sexually assaulted to point of attempting to commit suicide?
and she can ONLY be hurt by being physically attacked?

What the fuck Atlus!?
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,635
As someone just getting into Yakuza do to humble bundle... This is good stuff, and now I want to get more once I finish Kiwari.
That's good to hear. Don't forget to play Zero, that's an awesome game (best in the series) and the perfect entry point since it happens before all other games in the series, including Kiwami.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
REMEMBER THAT THE YAKUZA TEAM REMOVED THE TRANSPHOBIC ELEMENTS FROM YAKUZA 3 DURING THE RE-RELEASE CAUSE THEY KNEW IT WAS GROSS AND OFFENSIVE

AND THEY ALSO GAVE US THIS

47p596aizyq31.png

Case in fucking point

Don't let Atlus sucker you into thinking proper LGBT representation in Japan is impossible

Alternatively

Persona: It can't be helped

Yakuza: We will improve
 
OP
OP
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
Banned
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
REMEMBER THAT THE YAKUZA TEAM REMOVED THE TRANSPHOBIC ELEMENTS FROM YAKUZA 3 DURING THE RE-RELEASE CAUSE THEY KNEW IT WAS GROSS AND OFFENSIVE

AND THEY ALSO GAVE US THIS

47p596aizyq31.png
Which Yakuza game is this one?

It's really weird how a game about violent mobsters ends up being one of the most progressive
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,635
Which Yakuza game is this one?

It's really weird how a game about violent mobsters ends up being one of the most progressive
Yakuza 3 if I'm not mistaken. Yakuza have had a good amount of similar stuff in the more recent entries.

I don't know if it was Y0 or Y6, but in one of those games there is a whole side story for one of the hostesses who is lesbian and how she struggles accepting that because how society might see her and Kiryu helps her realize that she shouldn't suppress her true feelings because of that.
 
Jun 11, 2019
6,840
Yakuza 3 if I'm not mistaken. Yakuza have had a good amount of similar stuff in the more recent entries.

I don't know if it was Y0 or Y6, but in one of those games there is a whole side story for one of the hostesses who is lesbian and how she struggles accepting that because how society might see her and Kiryu helps her realize that she shouldn't suppress her true feelings because of that.
I believe it's Yakuza Kiwami
 
May 13, 2019
1,589
Pretty sure Atlus managed to piss away a lot of the goodwill they built up in the West during the last 2 gens with hardcore gamers, given how poorly the P5 spinoffs have sold

And goodwill matters when nobody will give them benefit of the doubt. This thread is proof of that. Even people who are passionate about their games <---- won't bother defending them.

It's sad how things turned out
But the dancing game is the only P5 spinoff so far and let's be honest, it would never be a million seller. Guess you could count PQ2 too and... Well, it's a 3DS game in 2019. It was pretty much DOA.

Which Yakuza game is this one?

It's really weird how a game about violent mobsters ends up being one of the most progressive
The Yakuza games have always been kind of really consistent when it comes to establishing a mood and then swiging to the polar opposite in the next scene. I'm not a fan of the sudden whiplash.
 
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Deleted member 21411

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,907
Which Yakuza game is this one?

It's really weird how a game about violent mobsters ends up being one of the most progressive
Yakuza is weirdly one of the warmest series. Even if story is about the mafia like its more about the love of the random people on the street. Kiryu might be the best main character because his empathy is his biggest strength and i find that inspiring
 

Gabriel Hall

Member
Oct 27, 2017
514
REMEMBER THAT THE YAKUZA TEAM REMOVED THE TRANSPHOBIC ELEMENTS FROM YAKUZA 3 DURING THE RE-RELEASE CAUSE THEY KNEW IT WAS GROSS AND OFFENSIVE

AND THEY ALSO GAVE US THIS

47p596aizyq31.png

Holy shit, I had no idea they added this. Thank you so much for sharing.

Kiryu Kazuma, Dragon of Dojima, is now a trans rights activist confirmed.
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
But the dancing game is the only P5 spinoff so far and let's be honest, it would never be a million seller. Guess you could count PQ2 too and... Well, it's a 3DS game in 2019. It was pretty much DOA.

P5D bombed spectacularly and PW2 didnt so hot. Not sure P5R will particularly do well but we'll see.

The Yakuza games have always been kind of schizophrenic messes, swinging from one mood to another constantly. Basically a never-ending bipolar disorder parade.

You don't need to use serious mental illnesses as a descriptor for an inconsistent series.
 
May 13, 2019
1,589

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,823
Atlus can fuck all the way off with this shit. And honestly, I don't really understand that "I hope this is fixed in the localization" mentality. So it gets slightly changed for you, but your money is still supporting a bunch of LGBT-phobic devs and you can rest easy because you just don't see actual discrimination.
What privilege.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,747
Pretty sure Atlus managed to piss away a lot of the goodwill they built up in the West during the last 2 gens with hardcore gamers, given how poorly the P5 spinoffs have sold
I wouldn't say that, at least not yet as there's no solid evidence it's linked to any ill will towards Atlus themselves.

One spinoff was a dancing game (with middling base content at best) and the other a 3DS game in a year where the 3DS is all but dead. Neither of those were going to set the world on fire.

Now if Royal and especially Strikers are flops in the west, then I would say the goodwill is gone.
 
OP
OP
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
Banned
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
Atlus can fuck all the way off with this shit. And honestly, I don't really understand that "I hope this is fixed in the localization" mentality. So it gets slightly changed for you, but your money is still supporting a bunch of LGBT-phobic devs and you can rest easy because you just don't see actual discrimination.
What privilege.
Them fixing it in localization would mean that at the very least Atlus USA is aware of the issue. You make a good point, though.