You make it sound like you're not waiting with bated breath for Justice Kamala Harris
On Voting or Not Voting for Biden in Light of the Sexual Assault Allegations |OT| Discussion Guidelines in OP
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You make it sound like you're not waiting with bated breath for Justice Kamala Harris
short memory of Joe Biden's contributions to the Supreme Court there
honestly this whole thread is such a perfect microcosm of neoliberalism: fretting over the votes of a meaninglessly small number of online people who live in 100% red or blue states and won't have the slightest impact on the electoral college in November unlike the same rust belt people who's sole online interaction is, maybe, Facebook you ignored in 2016
it's the newest shiny distraction in a long line of feckless distractions in the vein of impeachment and the mueller report
honestly this whole thread is such a perfect microcosm of neoliberalism: fretting over the votes of a meaninglessly small number of online people who live in 100% red or blue states and won't have the slightest impact on the electoral college in November unlike the same rust belt people who's sole online interaction is, maybe, Facebook you ignored in 2016
it's the newest shiny distraction in a long line of feckless distractions in the vein of impeachment and the mueller report
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Yeah but his supporters and surrogates are mean on twitter though
They're also a 30% minority whose chances were severely damaged the moment the other part of the base stopped splitting their votes across multiple candidates. When it comes to the credibility of his claim that he can turn out the voters necessary to win the White House this November (much less the senate) Sanders is in a much worse place now than he was a month ago. And that's a handicap when the electorate places winning above all other concerns.
It's all perception right now. No one knows how the general is going to play out. The mainstream assumption is that Joe Biden would do better at winning the senate. My take is that Bernie would win more independent voters and inspire more people overall to come out and vote. I don't claim to know that as some sort of fact, but enthusiasm numbers certainly point towards Biden not getting the actual vote out in November. And that's not even getting into all of the shit that Trump and the GOP are going to be able to fling at Biden regarding his piss poor career in the senate and his inability to stay focused in most of his public appearances.
I guess what I'm saying is that the democratic primary voting base are mostly idiots who follow whatever way the wind is blowing and are generally out of touch with the general voting population. This has been true for when they nominated Mondale, Bill Clinton (who only won because of Ross Perot), Al Gore, John Kerry, and 2016 Hillary Clinton. All moderate losers.
I thinl the decision of voting for not for Biden in November is whether to have someone who probably is a rapist as President, or gift the presidency to someone who pretty damn sure is a rapist and is also doing his best do undermine democracy, destroy the institutions and the country's relations with the rest of the world.
Not a hard choice imo. Of course, the bar is very different for the candidate of each party so Trump will be reelected anyway.
Not a hard choice imo. Of course, the bar is very different for the candidate of each party so Trump will be reelected anyway.
Why would I need to wait?? It already happened on Super Tuesday. I really don't want to derail the thread so I'll stay on topic.
Trump's harm will be irreparable if he gets 4 more years. So im going to vote for Biden without a doubt in my mind.
It's always funny to me to watch smug liberals kick the left while they're down like they don't need our vote or something. Well whatever man, I'll be there on November to say I told you so, except I won't because you all aren't worth our time. We'll be busy organizing and regrouping to fix the root problems in our country while you all are crying in your wine glasses yelling obscenities at Susan Sarandon through the computer screen.
Dude I'm a black man with a gay twin brother and we don't have the time to cry over what could have been. We don't have that privilege. Its time to get Trump out of the office. I'm done wasting my energy to try and convince you privileged ass people that Trump needs to go.
You sure are privileged enough to think that Biden was the correct choice since early days of the election. Some of us aren't that privileged. Some of us are fucking dying under the weight of capitalism. Some of us are dying because we can't get the healthcare we need. Some of us are committing suicide because we've lost hope to escape the stress of not being able to afford rent and food with our shitty jobs that kill us for piss poor wages and no opportunity to get a better career or make a living wage. If you took a fucking second to listen to us and our problems then maybe you would understand why we are desperate for Sanders.
To a lot of us, Biden represents more of the same. He represents Obama, the same motherfucker who ignored us for 8 years. You should feel done trying to convince us of anything because you know jack shit about our situations. We on the other hand, can't afford to stop trying to convince you. This is life or death for us.
People have got to stop bringing "privilege" into the equation as a thought terminating cliche.
What's going to happen when you learn the people you're talking to are poc/queer/poor?It's altogether too lazy to go into the "you're privileged!" as an answer to discussions between liberal groups.
It's like...people are here discussing things, you don't need to go make your own faulty conclusions as to why someone decides to do something or not.
What's going to happen when you learn the people you're talking to are poc/queer/poor?It's altogether too lazy to go into the "you're privileged!" as an answer to discussions between liberal groups.
It's like...people are here discussing things, you don't need to go make your own faulty conclusions as to why someone decides to do something or not.
I'm not sure who you're referring as I was a Warren supporter. I get that shit sucks.
But do you realize that if you REALLY believe that 8 years of Biden is the same Trump that you're privileged???? You think black people are being pragmatic for shits and giggles??
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You don't get it. If you did you wouldn't bring up privilege like we're all some goddamn podcasters in Brooklyn. You don't give a shit about us unless it's election time. You only care about yourself. If you cared you wouldn't guilt us into voting for a useless rapist. If you cared you'd fucking listen to what we had to say and you'd fight with us. You'd fight for our goddamn lives. Take a minute and think on it. I'd rather have you on our side than burn the bridge.
I am you. We are all suffering under capitalism. But there are still other things to fight for like the right for women to choose what to do with their bodies, the right for LGBTQ men and women to be able to work without hiding who the are and to get thousands of immigrant children out of cages, to Protect the voting rights of POC, the end of the fucking world!!! You're damn right I'm willing to vote Biden for that.
When that's difference between the two evils it's pretty obvious for me.
I mean you don't think Bernie will campaign for Joe???? Of course he will, because he knows what's at stake.
There's also the fact that not all black people wanted Biden, and one of the most dismissive answers I've heard is "they don't vote!"
And I mean...okay? But they still matter and their voices still matter. The abolitionist circles I frequent sure didn't want Biden at all. And a lot of younger black people didn't, either.
Like...we want have a conversation about saving the nation and caring about "black voters", but then ignore the complexity of how they vote and why.
And I mean...okay? But they still matter and their voices still matter. The abolitionist circles I frequent sure didn't want Biden at all. And a lot of younger black people didn't, either.
Like...we want have a conversation about saving the nation and caring about "black voters", but then ignore the complexity of how they vote and why.
I'll respect your decision on that. Personally I have the luxury to not vote for Biden because I'm in Oregon and this state isn't turning red unless Trump pulls some insane mega-sweep. I won't vote for a rapist or a guy who gleefully trashes the left and our ideals. However I'll always fight for LGBTQ people (being gay myself) and POC because that is core to my ideology. I'll continue to vote people in who'll not only fight fo secure civil rights, but is willing to fight for economic and human rights.
The Democratic party leadership has done the bare minimum to fight for us, for all of us. If they cared about poor POC, Biden would be for legalizing marijuana and releasing non-violent prisoners. If Biden gave a shit about the poor in general, he wouldn't talk about making healthcare "affordable", he'd talk about it being a human right. If Biden cared about women, he wouldn't treat them like objects on a personal level. If he cared about civil rights, he wouldn't buddy up with Israel as they subjugate an entire people to work them for cheap labor and slaughter them for their land. That goes for Pelosi and Schumer and everyone who follows their leadership.
We deserve real representation. If he becomes the nominee, I'll still hope he wins against Trump. But only because he'll be slightly easier to hold his feet to the fire, and goddamn I hope that he doesn't make it past 4 years. I'm tired of seeing horrible people lead our country.
We really running with the narrative that the youth don't turnout for Bernie after the shit they've had to deal with just to get to the poll stations?
I'm getting tired of this narrative, when states are actively trying to disenfranchise black people every day.
We should be looking at why our election systems are so fucked in the first place. Why the system is specifically built to disenfranchise poor, young and/or POC voters every fucking election even in democratically ran states. It's disgusting that only 3 states have a proper mail in voting system.
Literally anything so that people don't have to face the music that Sanders ran a bad campaign with a poor strategy based on wishful thinking.
You are absolutely correct.
ok lol.
It's not a narrative, we've seen it happen literally.
This isn't to say that suppression tactics aren't new, they've been used against the marginalised forever now.
It is what it is.
Yes yes, finger wagging about how the world will get 4 more years of Trump is what'll solve this I'm sure.
Forget everything else, that is all that matters~
Are you for real? How can you even? After all the fucking damage he has done, how can you consider him not being the first priority to take care of? How? How are you going to fix things while Trump is fucking king in the States?
What's the point of this post? Did Obama and the dems try to fix the election system when they had power? Do you honestly think Biden will fight for it? Did you not read the bit where I still hope Biden wins despite him being a disgusting, useless piece of shit? I don't think you though this through.
Let's stop talking like Biden is inevitable as the candidate. It's not that time yet.
All of the arguments for the importance of getting Trump out --the 700k Dreamers, the nightmare 7-2 SC scenario, the sheer fucking horror of the endless list of reasons posters are bringing up in this thread-- they are not reasons to rally behind Biden at this time. They are the best arguments against Biden. If it was the eve of the election and Biden was set in stone as the only option to remove Trump, then they are reasons to vote for him in a last gasp hope Biden is electable, but till then they are reasons to get him the fuck away from the nomination right now!
This is the time to do everything possible to pressure Biden to drop out. To pressure other Dems to pressure him. It is unconscionable that he becomes the nominee from any ethical framework. Still, if you're an implacable pragmatist, you need to get him out too. Because if you rightfully want to defeat Trump no matter what it takes, you do not want a divisive, controversial loser candidate like Biden. He will suppress the hell out of the Dem base. He will give cover to every wavering voter who went with the Republicans last time to stick with their vile party. He will further disenchant every current non-voter. I am utterly convinced he has the lowest chance of almost any potential candidate. Can you imagine how hard it will be to canvass for Biden to a skeptical swinging voter when you can't even stomach the man?
You'll do anything to defeat Trump? I agree. Let's get Biden out and get someone everyone can unify behind. Because that's not Biden and he will most likely lose.
It'll be very hard to get Biden out at this stage, but we're doing whatever it takes to beat Trump, right?
All of the arguments for the importance of getting Trump out --the 700k Dreamers, the nightmare 7-2 SC scenario, the sheer fucking horror of the endless list of reasons posters are bringing up in this thread-- they are not reasons to rally behind Biden at this time. They are the best arguments against Biden. If it was the eve of the election and Biden was set in stone as the only option to remove Trump, then they are reasons to vote for him in a last gasp hope Biden is electable, but till then they are reasons to get him the fuck away from the nomination right now!
This is the time to do everything possible to pressure Biden to drop out. To pressure other Dems to pressure him. It is unconscionable that he becomes the nominee from any ethical framework. Still, if you're an implacable pragmatist, you need to get him out too. Because if you rightfully want to defeat Trump no matter what it takes, you do not want a divisive, controversial loser candidate like Biden. He will suppress the hell out of the Dem base. He will give cover to every wavering voter who went with the Republicans last time to stick with their vile party. He will further disenchant every current non-voter. I am utterly convinced he has the lowest chance of almost any potential candidate. Can you imagine how hard it will be to canvass for Biden to a skeptical swinging voter when you can't even stomach the man?
You'll do anything to defeat Trump? I agree. Let's get Biden out and get someone everyone can unify behind. Because that's not Biden and he will most likely lose.
It'll be very hard to get Biden out at this stage, but we're doing whatever it takes to beat Trump, right?
Lol, you sure as fuck aren't going to fix anything with rapey Biden.
This is completely false. Trump will replace RBG with an alt-right anti-LGBT and anti-woman's right to choose wacko. Biden will replace RBG with a liberal judge.
That *ALONE* will make a massive difference in the future of our country.
Roe v Wade is already dead. There are states you can't get abortions in without driving hundreds of miles.
I haven't popped into the poli threads since the coronavirus became a thing, Did he drop out or something? if not why is everyone acting like Biden is their only option?
Dude's scum. And understandably not someone worth voting for. But you also have to then be willing to live whatever Donald Trump and his administration will do in the next four years. That absolutely has to be weighed against what a bastard Biden is. It's an absolutely gutting situation to find yourself in as a voter.
Edit: Hopefully Bernie pulls a miracle and we won't have to worry about this.
Edit: Hopefully Bernie pulls a miracle and we won't have to worry about this.
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What can I say then, best of luck to ya g'vnor. There's Biden and Trump running for the ticket (unless there's breaking news I haven't heard), so if the first one ain't it, than Donnie gotta be the one to bring ya'll the change you're hoping for.
If you think putting an alt-right judge on the SC whole will be there for 30+ years vs putting a liberal judge for 30+ years who will be there won't make a difference than you haven't paid attention to the Supreme Court. It isn't about decisions just in the next few years, but decisions over the next few DECADES.
Like if Trump replaces RBG the right have a 6-3 majority. If Biden replaces her then the left maintains thee 5-4 state. Which means we are only one judge away from a majority rather than 2. Say Thomas dies if Biden replaces RBG, then we have a majority. But if you allow Trump to replace RBG we are two seats in the hole and a long way from a majority.
The right fully understands just how important getting court seats is and it is why they will come out for their nominees no matter what. I wish those on the left took the time to understand how important the courts are.
It is embarrassing that the right understands the vital important of court appointments while so many on our side are ignorant about it.
As somebody who is following this from the outside of the US, this is completely my sentiment. You should not have to chose between Trump and Biden. There should be others.
The supreme court is a lost cause and people need to get used to that idea even if we get Biden for 4 years. We need to either pack the court or eliminate it.
People aren't bringing this up to say that it's a good thing, people are bringing it up to point out that the plan was bad and didn't work. The entire Bernie plan was winning because of mass voting from groups who don't vote traditionally like young people. Then when people point out that it didn't happen, people like you will point towards voter suppression. Like, yeah, no shit dude. That's one of the many reasons why it was a bad plan. This is obviously still a shitty status quo and needs to change, but voter suppression, especially in red states, didn't just pop up now. This should be prebaked into any electoral plan, and it looks like it wasn't here.
Even at the end of the day though, we don't even know if voter suppression was even a major part in why youth turnout didn't massively go up.
Nothing electorally presents Bernie as the great uniting figure for the party right now.
This is insane. How is it a lost cause? We are only one single seat away from a majority! That is it, only one seat.
If we win and one of the Republican judges dies in the next 4 years we have a majority.
We don't have the luxury to hope that Thomas dies (also thank you Biden for getting that horrible piece of shit through). Don't treat that idea like it's insane, we'll need a lot of people support to make it happen. It's a broken institution and we need to treat it like it's expendable to accomplish the goals that we need to accomplish in the next 10 years.
Considering that less people voted this year than four years ago, that's already happening and it's going to happen at a considerably higher margin this fall with Biden as the nominee. I actually would feel gross voting for Biden
Even if Thomas doesn't die RBG almost certainly won't make it another 4 years.
If you don't think there is any difference between the GOP having a 7-3 majority vs a 5-4 majority (with RBG replaced by a young MAGA alt-righter) then I do not know what to tell you.
Gay marriage would not have been legalized if the GOP had a 7-3 court majority for example. Obamacare would have been dead with a 7-3 court majority.
Huh? What are you talking about? Primary turnout is way up compared to 2016. And all of it has benefited Biden so far.
Like, it's crazy to me that you have to highlight these things. Lol " the Supreme Court is a lost cause"
It's actually a good take and you should take it seriously.
Which is why we need to dump that shit. The SCOTUS is killing our country. If the Democrats were competent enough to win the presidency consistently then maybe but that just isn't the case. Shit one of the Dem picks were fucking stolen. Get rid of the Supreme court or pack the shit out of it, which would have the same effect.
Nope! I think it's a totally fucked situation full of bad choices.
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