Tali'Zorah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
636
Norfolk, UK
The original 2D Mario's, from SMB1 to SMW. They're beautifully designed and clearly fun games. I'm just absolutely diabolical at 2D platformer so I simply cannot enjoy them the way they're meant to be enjoyed, even though I can tell they're fantastic games
 

Sadnarav

Member
Nov 6, 2019
889
There's no such thing as an "objectively good" art

But in games well awarded and beloved that aren't for me:

Every 2D Mario or pure 2D platformer, Persona 5, Sekiro, Hollow Knight, Metal Gear Solid V, REmake, REmake 2, Resident Evil 4... Coming to think about it I believe the only RE I liked was 5... Well anyways, GTA 5, RDR 1, anything from Platinum besides NieR Automata, 3D Fallout and The Other Worlds, fighting games and racing games in general
 

JMY86

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,104
United States
I could not be less interested in Naughty Dog games if I tried. I know tons of people love their games and I have tried many times to play them but they just bore me to tears for some reason...
 

Mgs2master2

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,863
something like red dead redemption 2. Its high metascore and large amount of game of the year awards tell you that despite preferences, its a compitently made game with areas of high quality. But many can also admit its slower gameplay is a turn off despite its other Qualities.
That is still subjective.

Objective only relies on facts that are concrete and backed with evidence. The entire "reviewer" or gaming "journalist" industry is subjective, no matter what they tell you. Games are scored on a subjective score system that is made, and that subjective score goes into metacritic or open critic.


Edit:

Not saying that its a bad thing. I am stressing the fact that there is no such thing as "objectively good" in terms of gaming since gaming is a HUGELY subjective hobby/passion/experience.
 
Last edited:
Dec 16, 2017
2,054
I fundamentally disagree with this and think its a horrible mentality to have. Because this just sounds like "lots of people liked and awarded this thing, therefore its good,if you like it or not". Its not how it works with abstract concepts. If it's good or not depends entirely on you, doesn't matter if the entire rest of the globe thinks otherwise. If you view something as good or bad, then it is good or bad to you, and it is valid. You don't have to recognize anything other than your own feelings about it.

The concept of objectively good isn't perfect, but it's a whole lot better than labeling everything you personally don't like as bad. To make this point, I'm going to use physical attractiveness as an example. Would you call everyone you're not attracted to as ugly? As a straight man, I still recognize which guys are likely to be seen as attractive to most women. Are you able to do this? Objectively good is the same concept.
 

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,661
The concept of objectively good isn't perfect, but it's a whole lot better than labeling everything you personally don't like as bad. To make this point, I'm going to use physical attractiveness as an example. Would you call everyone you're not attracted to as ugly? As a straight man, I still recognize which guys are likely to be seen as attractive to most women. Are you able to do this? Objectively good is the same concept.
That has nothing to do with objectivity
 

Storm1672

Member
Mar 30, 2019
5
The side mission bosses in this game are somewhat difficult. Or at least not easy. The only difficulty spike I encountered till the very end is the "Mold-1" boss. This was definitely a spike and differentiated itself from the difficulty curve. Besides that though, I would say no. Actually, most other games seem to have a lot more inconsistent difficulty than Control.

If you need tips, just read a guide or see a video. Mostly, don't stop moving, shoot with your gun when your energy depletes, shoot with your Launch ability (try to upgrade it to the max). Control's battle system isn't as difficult as say Alan Wake or Quantum Break. It is actually easier because of the mods and abilities (actually Launch is OP and some weapons are quite useless).
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,716
I'm no good with most fighting games since I struggle with the controls/motions, but I realize they're still pretty awesome and wouldn't necessarily become better just if they changed themselves for my sake.
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
6,603
I mean heaps of games from genres I am not a fan of such as racing and sports games.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,833
The Last of Us - Pacing killed it for me. Major bummer as was massively hyped to play it off the back of the unanimous praise. Will be trying again over Christmas and either way will be getting 2.

The Witcher 3 - Combat controls always felt off and the world (insofar as the first 10-12hrs) like a miniature of a world. Everything felt too pocketed. Hard one to articulate and I know the love for the world, just seemed to lack the feel of a world instead of a collection of locations for me. I own it on every platform though and routinely pop back in to see if it clicks.

Any Monster Hunter - I would love to love this as someone that loved PSO but each time I try it just feels awkward and stiff. Even MHW.
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,958
The concept of objectively good isn't perfect, but it's a whole lot better than labeling everything you personally don't like as bad. To make this point, I'm going to use physical attractiveness as an example. Would you call everyone you're not attracted to as ugly? As a straight man, I still recognize which guys are likely to be seen as attractive to most women. Are you able to do this? Objectively good is the same concept.
That is not objectively good tho, this is just recognizing there something has some qualities, even if you don't like it. This is just having common sense. "objectively" is just to be used when the subject in question is a factoid or a quantifiable verified thing. And i don't think there's any problem to label what you dont like as bad, as long as you are not a dick about it with other people. I'm not gonna pretend i don't think something is bad because some people may be upset about it. I'm not going to go out of my way to stop others from enjoying it, of course, but i'm also not making up my thought and feelings.
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,240
I'm not sure about "objectively," but I have no doubt they're amazing games:

- Any Soulsborne/Sekiro game;
- RDR2;
- Skyrim;
- Mario games;
- Zelda games;
- DMC V;
- Any battle royale game;
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,213
There are many, I'll mention the Last of Us since I actually bought it and played it despite being sure it wasn't for me. Turns out I was right. I can absolutely see it's a very good game though.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
Metroid Prime. Clearly it was a well crafted experience, but the focus on exploration over combat in an FPS didn't really gel with me.
 

Schlorgan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,932
Salt Lake City, Utah
Objectivity is a weird concept.

I'll say that I get why people love Red Dead Redemption (and Rockstar games in general) but I've never been able to get into them outside of LA Noire.
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,909
I was trying to explain the philosophy behind objectively good. I know it's not literally objective, but it seems a lot healthier than labelling everything in the world with my personal subjective opinions.
There's nothing wrong with having your subjective opinion on things (we all do anyway), as long as you respect that other people's views are just as valid.

Compare it with music. You don't try to claim some objective quality to your favorite songs, do you? Neither do you argue that the top radio hits are objectively good.
There's just no need for that, and there isn't for games either.
 
Dec 16, 2017
2,054
There's nothing wrong with having your subjective opinion on things (we all do anyway), as long as you respect that other people's views are just as valid.

Compare it with music. You don't try to claim some objective quality to your favorite songs, do you? Neither do you argue that the top radio hits are objectively good.
There's just no need for that, and there isn't for games either.

I think we just philosophically disagree. I'd describe some musicians as objectively good as well. For example, I'd argue that Mozart was a brilliant musician even though I'd prefer to something else.

I believe in the importance of recognizing excellence in others even it's in something that isn't my personal cup of tea. Saying something is objectively good, just means you recognize excellence in something that isn't for you.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,062
USA
Sekiro. Great game and I can see why people love the game. Just didn't click with me. No regrets buying it though.
 

Jirotrom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
394
I bought and best red dead redemption 2, as an art piece I think it's great, as a game I think it's mostly Terri Le , and I'm still kind of disappointed in myself for slogging through it.
 

KernelC

alt account
Banned
Aug 28, 2019
3,561
Zelda BOTW, one of the worst combat mechanics I've endured
RDR2, too slow for me, and I don't mind VNs nor turn based jrpgs
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,926
I think we just philosophically disagree. I'd describe some musicians as objectively good as well. For example, I'd argue that Mozart was a brilliant musician even though I'd prefer to something else.

I believe in the importance of recognizing excellence in others even it's in something that isn't my personal cup of tea. Saying something is objectively good, just means you recognize excellence in something that isn't for you.

But if "objectively good" just means "I see quality in something, it just isn't for me," that's equally subjective unless somehow we've developed objective measures of the quality of a game.

Is a game good if it has quality voice acting? What does "quality" voice acting even mean? I think most people can identify bad voice acting, sure, but sometimes even that is enjoyable to people. Is good voice acting simply something we don't recognize as bad, or are there specific things you point to to say it's good? I think if you start to break it down, you eventually get to subjective measures--this performance made me feel something emotionally, or that performance struck the wrong note, or whatever. Even just saying "I thought the voice acting was too hyperactive for my tastes but I can see why others would like it" is still a subjective measure on some level.

And that's just one aspect among many. Graphics, game mechanics, UI, level design--all of those things eventually boil down to some subjective take. Even "well-crafted" isn't a good dodge because unless we're literally just measuring the amount of time or effort put into making a game, whether a game feels well-crafted or not is still subjective on some level. (And if we ARE just measuring the amount of time or effort put into making a game, Duke Nukem Forever would like to have a word with you.) How do you determine a level of craft? And let's say you did have the archetypal "well-crafted" game, something where all the graphics feel just right (subjective) and the mechanics are so finely tuned that it feels fantastic to play (subjective) and has excellent game balance that challenges the player while not being too difficult (subjective!). Let's say this chimera actually exists, but then when you actually play it, it feels soulless. Is that a game where you'd go "I see the quality in this, but it's not for me" any more than any other game you maybe didn't like?

I dunno. I feel like ultimately this makes a lot more sense as "what are some games whose appeal you understand, but don't like personally." Almost the same, but gets away from this idea of your opinion being subjective, and there being some kind of objective truth others have uncovered.

Anyways, to answer the original question (or some version of it): my answer is Mario. I can see why people love the games, they seem very mechanically sound as platformers and they have a lot of character, but I just can't play them well enough to feel like I'm getting much out of them. I am a terrible Mario player.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,348
Hey it's the monthly Breath of the Wild thread.

Basically hits every single beat I hate and I'm bothered it's the direction the series will take for awhile.
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,909
I think we just philosophically disagree. I'd describe some musicians as objectively good as well. For example, I'd argue that Mozart was a brilliant musician even though I'd prefer to something else.

I believe in the importance of recognizing excellence in others even it's in something that isn't my personal cup of tea. Saying something is objectively good, just means you recognize excellence in something that isn't for you.
I don't think we philosophically disagree on this. It's absolutely important to recognize why things are well-liked even if we don't like it personally.

Using key words incorrectly (as you admitted you did earlier) isn't the way to go though, but maybe THAT is something we philosophically disagree on. ;)
 

Christo750

Member
May 10, 2018
4,263
The Xenoblade games; can't mesh with the combat, at least in X and 2. Never finished the first, but maybe the DE will be the one that sticks.

Horizon Zero Dawn; I recognize the polish there but it has entirely too many AAA tropes and annoyances. Hated the main character monologuing to herself, the combat that wasn't archery was lame, and idk, it was potentially the BOTW excitement but I put 10 hours into it and it did not land with me at all.
 

smash_robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
994
Great - now the thread is full of sophomoric arguments about "objectivity"

We all know that OP meant games that are highly regarded in the general and critical consensus. Is it so hard to reply in good faith?

Anyway, for me it's RDR2, BOTW and most sports / racing games.
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,214
I love how half this thread is people arguing the premise and the other half is people who understand the spirit of OP's question.

For me the most immediate answer is Hitman (2016). I tried the demo because of all the buzz around it (and Giant Bomb) and I can see the appeal of it's open-ended clockwork design, but it's just not the kind of thing I ever want to engage with.
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,650
What if we reverse the question; what are some 'objectively' bad games that you like and are right up your alley? Can they even exist?
 
OP
OP
Secretofmateria

Secretofmateria

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,424
I love how half this thread is people arguing the premise and the other half is people who understand the spirit of OP's question.

For me the most immediate answer is Hitman (2016). I tried the demo because of all the buzz around it (and Giant Bomb) and I can see the appeal of it's open-ended clockwork design, but it's just not the kind of thing I ever want to engage with.

same! I loved watching the giant bomb crew play it, and i could see how smart and well designed it was through that. But playing it myself i found i was more frustrated with the mechanics that i thought were a lot of fun to watch. Still a great game though, just another one i didn't gel with
 

ArmadilloGame

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,070
I could not be less interested in Naughty Dog games if I tried. I know tons of people love their games and I have tried many times to play them but they just bore me to tears for some reason...

Same. They ought to be completely in my wheelhouse, but I just can't find the fun.

It got to the point where if I see that a game has a climbing section that looks death defying but is really just a slow, unloseable minigame, I lose all hype.
 

Altair

Member
Jan 11, 2018
7,901
Should've just said critically acclaimed games because objectively good (or bad) games don't exist.

Anyway, Forza Horizon and BOTW.
 

Bonestorm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
816
All Souls games. I would love to play through those on a super easy difficulty, to see all the atmosphere and bosses.
 

Minilla

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,514
Tokyo
Borderlands, Battle Royales, Ubisoft stuff like Ass Creed and Far Cry (if there even considered good??) and pretty much any Nintendo franchise
 

Doom_Bringer

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,181
The Souls series - I have very limited time for gaming, these games just look frustrating
Destiny and similar games
Resident Evil 2, I liked the demo but not the full game, found it boring
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,672
I didn't care much for Hollow Knight, but I can see how someone else might.