Nintendo First Party Thread |OT3| Internal x External x Publishing - What's cooking?

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Time so far spent on making their next game

Retro Studios: 18+ months (now working from home probably for a year plus)
EPD Tokyo: 30 months (probably had to throw a month away due to COVID-19)
BotW2 team: 40 months (probably had to throw a month away due to COVID-19)

When are these three launching.

 

[laziboi]

It is interesting that two back to back Production Group No.01 games are now being listed under "Akira Kinashi" instead of "Hitoshi Yamagami". It looks like Nonaka and Production Group No.02 were co-producing during this transition of management.

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Nonaka has been gaining more responsibilities lately. Do you think Nintendo is eyeing him as new EPD GM?

 

[Astrogamer]

Nonaka has been gaining more responsibilities lately. Do you think Nintendo is eyeing him as new EPD GM?

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I was thinking he's working under Terasaki's division (Development Administration and Support Division) especially since Izuno supposed to be the Manager of the group that Nonaka was in.

 

[laziboi]

I was thinking he's working under Terasaki's division (Development Administration and Support Division) especially since Izuno supposed to be the Manager of the group that Nonaka was in.

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Nonaka does work under Izuno though. From what we know, EPD focuses on the creative and production side, while Developer Support focuses on things like assisting with development tools, finances, and how to use engines and such.

Nonoka was also Nintendo's producer on the new indie games from Europe like Snipperclips, The Stretchers, and Good Job! It wouldn't surprise me if this is something he's personally pushing for.

 

[Astrogamer]

Nonaka does work under Izuno though. From what we know, EPD focuses on the creative and production side, while Developer Support focuses on things like assisting with development tools, finances, and how to use engines and such.

Nonoka was also Nintendo's producer on the new indie games from Europe like Snipperclips, The Stretchers, and Good Job! It wouldn't surprise me if this is something he's personally pushing for.

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The last we got of a hard confirm of Nonaka's position was in 2011 with an Iwata Asks for Wii Play Motion if I remember correctly and his role expanded greater post 2015. The Development Administration and Support Division was formed in September 2015 and we only know that Shinya Takahashi is the GM of it with Keisuke Terasaki as the Deputy GM (don't think this changed since then since Terasaki is not an Executive Officer) and because of this role, Terasaki is a Director at Monolith Soft and NDCube. That gives me the feel that this division manages Nintendo's work with outside studios in general. That is Nonaka's forte as he was producer on Wii Play Motion and the Streetpass Plaza games. Additionally, Terasaki is credited on many of the same games as Nonaka.

 

[laziboi]

The last we got of a hard confirm of Nonaka's position was in 2011 with an Iwata Asks for Wii Play Motion if I remember correctly and his role expanded greater post 2015. The Development Administration and Support Division was formed in September 2015 and we only know that Shinya Takahashi is the GM of it with Keisuke Terasaki as the Deputy GM (don't think this changed since then since Terasaki is not an Executive Officer) and because of this role, Terasaki is a Director at Monolith Soft and NDCube. That gives me the feel that this division manages Nintendo's work with outside studios in general. That is Nonaka's forte as he was producer on Wii Play Motion and the Streetpass Plaza games. Additionally, Terasaki is credited on many of the same games as Nonaka.

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Shinya Takahashi is GM of EPD, he's only supervisor of Developer Support. EPD manages all software titles produced by Nintendo, but DAS can still be involved with things like finance management or technical support, which is why Terasaki is sometimes credited as Project Manager on some Nintendo titles.

Nintendo is structured in a way where divisions are regularly encouraged to communicate with each other at any and all Opportunities, so multiple divisions can be involved with a single project. Like How Ring Fit Adventure and Nintendo Labo were both worked on by PTD in addition to EPD in-house.

 

[laziboi]

With Snipperclips, Stretchers, and now Good Job!, I think Nintendo should expand EPD Group 2's budget for indie developed games, as well as try to do more "artsy" titles in this field in a similar style to Ori.

 

[Astrogamer]

With Snipperclips, Stretchers, and now Good Job!, I think Nintendo should expand EPD Group 2's budget for indie developed games, as well as try to do more "artsy" titles in this field in a similar style to Ori.

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EPD 2 is only supervising. It's an effort by a production group in NOA

 

[laziboi]

EPD 2 is only supervising. It's an effort by a production group in NOA

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I'd like to assume that it's a joint effort between them.

 

[Comrade Grogu]

With Snipperclips, Stretchers, and now Good Job!, I think Nintendo should expand EPD Group 2's budget for indie developed games, as well as try to do more "artsy" titles in this field in a similar style to Ori.

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Basically this, though I feel that sometimes Nintendo lags behind AAA games compared to their competition. We haven't really had a "big" game like Breath of the Wild for a while now. I feel that that's selling themselves short and selling even less units than they could have already. Granted, AAA games are hard to make, but it seems that they have issues pumping them out as much as Sony and Microsoft can.

 

[laziboi]

Basically this, though I feel that sometimes Nintendo lags behind AAA games compared to their competition. We haven't really had a "big" game like Breath of the Wild for a while now. I feel that that's selling themselves short and selling even less units than they could have already. Granted, AAA games are hard to make, but it seems that they have issues pumping them out as much as Sony and Microsoft can.

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Nintendo's never been a fan of the "Western" approach to AAA development. They prefer to keep budgets and team sizes as efficient as possible, while still maintaining a high level of quality. I think people should give up on the idea of them competing with Sony and Microsoft in this space.

 

[Comrade Grogu]

Nintendo's never been a fan of the "Western" approach to AAA development. They prefer to keep budgets and team sizes as efficient as possible, while still maintaining a high level of quality. I think people should give up on the idea of them competing with Sony and Microsoft in this space.

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That's fair, I suppose, and I think that's how they've survived for this long. I hear every year that Sony and Microsoft are losing money in the gaming department. Don't know if that's true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Glio]

Splatoon 2, Mario Odyssey, Smash Bros, Animal Crossing etc. are as big as BOTW

 

[laziboi]

Splatoon 2, Mario Odyssey, Smash Bros, Animal Crossing etc. are as big as BOTW

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BotW was Nintendo's biggest though. The Budget and team size of that game probably eclipses most of Nintendo's other titles. Splatoon 2 for instance, probably looks like peanuts in comparison.

 

[Comrade Grogu]

BotW was Nintendo's biggest though. The Budget and team size of that game probably eclipses most of Nintendo's other titles. Splatoon 2 for instance, probably looks like peanuts in comparison.

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Honestly, this right here is partly why I'm interested in BOTW 2, or whatever it'll be called. Nintendo rarely embarks on such projects with such a huge size. I doubt that we'll ever see anything like this for a while after it's done unless they plan to make the BOTW duology into a trilogy (which I'd be all for).

 

[MisterSpo]

I don't think people should underestimate the resources that go into 3D Mario, Smash Bros or even Animal Crossing. They're the games that are guaranteed to return a big investment. Here in the UK, Smash Ultimate is the only Nintendo title other than Breath of the Wild to command a £59.99 price point (£10 more than Odyssey etc).

 

[Deleted member 18161]

Basically this, though I feel that sometimes Nintendo lags behind AAA games compared to their competition. We haven't really had a "big" game like Breath of the Wild for a while now. I feel that that's selling themselves short and selling even less units than they could have already. Granted, AAA games are hard to make, but it seems that they have issues pumping them out as much as Sony and Microsoft can.

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To me Super Mario Odyssey, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Luigi's Mansion 3 are also AAA Switch games (on top of BotW which is more than likely the most expensive game Nintendo have ever developed by far).

Metroid Prime 4, Bayonetta 3 and BotW 2 are also AAA imo. The next Mario Kart and Monolithsoft adventure game too.

I suppose it all comes down to what budget you consider "AAA" represents. To me personally any game that costs over $20 million dollars to develop is a AAA game because it takes roughly 500 000 copies sold to break even.

I personally believe that most Switch games are "AA" games that cost between $10 and $20 million to develop. This is good because it means you can release many exclusive games per year which further pushes hardware on top of your big one a year AAA games.

 

[Comrade Grogu]

To me Super Mario Odyssey, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Luigi's Mansion 3 are also AAA Switch games (on top of BotW which is more than likely the most expensive game Nintendo have ever developed by far).

Metroid Prime 4, Bayonetta 3 and BotW 2 are also AAA imo. The next Mario Kart and Monolithsoft adventure game too.

I suppose it all comes down to what budget you consider "AAA" represents. To me personally any game that costs over $20 million dollars to develop is a AAA game because it takes roughly 500 000 copies sold to break even.

I personally believe that most Switch games are "AA" games that cost between $10 and $20 million to develop. This is good because it means you can release many exclusive games per year which further pushes hardware on top of your big one a year AAA games.

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Actually, I agree. I suppose I wanted more projects like BOTW, but this is good all the same. I just wish we got something from Nintendo with all this silence. I hate to make another "complain about a lack of a future Direct" post, but the fact that Nintendo tells us nothing in the end makes me want to play their games even less if I feel that they're not supporting the Switch as much as they could be. So I guess my problem isn't the games that are coming out from Nintendo, but the fact that I don't feel the excitement like I used to. I know, I know, it's a silly problem, but there you go...

 

[laziboi]

Actually, I agree. I suppose I wanted more projects like BOTW, but this is good all the same. I just wish we got something from Nintendo with all this silence. I hate to make another "complain about a lack of a future Direct" post, but the fact that Nintendo tells us nothing in the end makes me want to play their games even less if I feel that they're not supporting the Switch as much as they could be. So I guess my problem isn't the games that are coming out from Nintendo, but the fact that I don't feel the excitement like I used to. I know, I know, it's a silly problem, but there you go...

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The lack of news is largely due to forces beyond Nintendo's control. Covid-19 and Japan's WFH orders really screwed them and the rest of the Japanese development scene over this year, and they're only now loosening up. Things would've been business as usual for Nintendo this year had the pandemic not happen.

 

[Comrade Grogu]

The lack of news is largely due to forces beyond Nintendo's control. Covid-19 and Japan's WFH orders really screwed them and the rest of the Japanese development scene over this year, and they're only now loosening up. Things would've been business as usual for Nintendo this year had the pandemic not happen.

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Fair enough.

Also, Japan's WFH orders? What is WFH?

 

[laziboi]

Fair enough.

Also, Japan's WFH orders? What is WFH?

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Work From Home.

 

[Comrade Grogu]

Work From Home.

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Oh, gotcha.

 

[Glio]

BotW was Nintendo's biggest though. The Budget and team size of that game probably eclipses most of Nintendo's other titles. Splatoon 2 for instance, probably looks like peanuts in comparison.

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But that happens in all companies.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

Actually, I agree. I suppose I wanted more projects like BOTW, but this is good all the same. I just wish we got something from Nintendo with all this silence. I hate to make another "complain about a lack of a future Direct" post, but the fact that Nintendo tells us nothing in the end makes me want to play their games even less if I feel that they're not supporting the Switch as much as they could be. So I guess my problem isn't the games that are coming out from Nintendo, but the fact that I don't feel the excitement like I used to. I know, I know, it's a silly problem, but there you go...

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Our tastes align mate and that is why I have a PS4 Pro for more AAA action / adventure games. For me I can't live without Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Smash, DK, Pikmin and Yoshi but little of the rest of Nintendo's first party output interests me. I've tried several times to get into Pokémon and Animal Crossing but I just can't. I'm happy to buy their systems for a game per year and have another console as my main. Just the way it is.

 

[Comrade Grogu]

Our tastes align mate and that is why I have a PS4 Pro for more AAA action / adventure games. For me I can't live without Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Smash, DK, Pikmin and Yoshi but little of the rest of Nintendo's first party output interests me. I've tried several times to get into Pokémon and Animal Crossing but I just can't. I'm happy to buy their systems for a game per year and have another console as my main. Just the way it is.

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Yeah, I just feel like there's a lot more going on with the games you'll get on Itch, Steam, or EGS. Granted, I was like you in that PlayStation 4 was my main. Now, it's PC > PS4 > Switch. Don't get me wrong: I'm a huge Nintendo fan as far as video games go (and video games only occupy a small part of my life) but there's just not enough there there to be all that interested. They don't give us really any news (in general, I don't mean to exaggerate) compared to the other devs out there.

 

[TheMoon]

nintendo fan rule #1: do not hold your breath for them to ever align their game output with traditional big budget mainstream games

that only leads to frustration and disappointment. they'll never go down that route, as they've made quite clear repeatedly over the many many years.

 

[EAD Ninja]

Basically this, though I feel that sometimes Nintendo lags behind AAA games compared to their competition. We haven't really had a "big" game like Breath of the Wild for a while now. I feel that that's selling themselves short and selling even less units than they could have already. Granted, AAA games are hard to make, but it seems that they have issues pumping them out as much as Sony and Microsoft can.

Click to shrink...

Nintendo's development culture hasn't exactly embraced the direction that most of the AA/AAA game industry has moved towards. I think you notice that specifically in the presentation of several games where it sometimes felt like we were stuck in the N64 era. Breath of the Wild is a good example of positive change because you can see how the investment into the game (including the presentation) - bolstered its overall appeal to the wide enthusiasts. I also think that RFA is a good example.

We can only hope that as the newer generation of development staff at Nintendo branches out from previous constraints, we see some of those gaps addressed. Nintendo is enjoying fantastic sales from several of their classic and new IPs, so it will be interesting to see how they reinvest that back into their R&D, affiliates, and software production.

 

[Comrade Grogu]

Nintendo's development culture hasn't exactly embraced the direction that most of the AA/AAA game industry has moving towards. I think you notice that specifically in the presentation of several games where it sometimes felt like we were stuck in the N64 era. Breath of the Wild is a good example because you can see how the investment into the game (including the presentation) - bolstered its overall appeal to the wide enthusiasts. I also think that RFA is a good example.

We can only hope that as the newer generation of development staff at Nintendo branches out from previous constraints, we see some of those gaps addressed. Nintendo is enjoying fantastic sales from several of their classic and new IPs, so it will be interesting to see how they reinvest that back into their R&D, affiliates, and software production.

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Oh God, I hope they invest, but as pointed out earlier, they like to be as efficient as possible and I have a feeling that that translates to them being as stingy as possible.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

nintendo fan rule #1: do not hold your breath for them to ever align their game output with traditional big budget mainstream games

that only leads to frustration and disappointment. they'll never go down that route, as they've made quite clear repeatedly over the many many years.

Click to shrink...

They release far more exclusive games than Sony or MS it's just the games are smaller projects which leads to many people "not counting" them in list wars.

I like the way Nintendo operates. More games means more choice for Switch owners and expands the potential market for their system.

People need to realise that not every game is aimed at them specifically. For every BotW or Smash there's a Mario Party or Yoshi so that all customer bases are covered. Some people actually prefer the latter and that's the point. This is the reason that I go into owning their systems with the rule that if I get an exclusive per year that interests me them it's worth owning.

Now where's my Super Mario Galaxy HD!! 😝

 

[EAD Ninja]

Splatoon 2, Mario Odyssey, Smash Bros, Animal Crossing etc. are as big as BOTW

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What we really have to be curious about - is how does Nintendo respond to BOTW, Odyssey, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Smash Bros. and RFA moving forward. Basically their line of 20-10 million world wide (and 1 million + in Japan which Nintendo has traditionally regarded above much else). Essentially their biggest IPs at the moment (excluding Nintendo/TPC Pokemon games).

How does Nintendo invest those sales back into the development teams and following sequels?

 

[Dark Cloud]

People need to realise that not every game is aimed at them specifically. For every BotW or Smash there's a Mario Party or Yoshi

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No there's not.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

Nintendo's development culture hasn't exactly embraced the direction that most of the AA/AAA game industry has moved towards. I think you notice that specifically in the presentation of several games where it sometimes felt like we were stuck in the N64 era. Breath of the Wild is a good example of positive change because you can see how the investment into the game (including the presentation) - bolstered its overall appeal to the wide enthusiasts. I also think that RFA is a good example.

We can only hope that as the newer generation of development staff at Nintendo branches out from previous constraints, we see some of those gaps addressed. Nintendo is enjoying fantastic sales from several of their classic and new IPs, so it will be interesting to see how they reinvest that back into their R&D, affiliates, and software production.

Click to shrink...

The real issue Nintendo will face in the near future imo is developing software for the next generation of hardware power. Going from a PS360 ballpark level machine (Switch) to an XB1/PS4 ballpark level machine, the push towards 4k (and the level of asset quality needed for incredibly high resolutions) as well as market trends for larger, more content rich Worlds means a large leap in development budgets (I think the PlayStation guy said development budgets we're doubling every gen recently) so a possible next gen exclusive open World Zelda could easily cost $100+ million and require a staff of over 500 developers.

This is not only an overall budget issue but also an issue of Nintendo eventually needing many, many times the number of development staff that they currently have. They're already having to pull developers away from Monolithsoft's projects to help with Zelda games. I also realise they can't go on a mass hiring spree all at once because as they've said in the past that could lead to lower quality across the board.

I do wonder if at some point (heading towards Switch 3) Nintendo will be forced to acquire a full development house to keep up the software output on future platforms. If they do then my money would be on Namco because of the good relationship they already have and the trust their developers now have from Nintendo higher ups. They basically develop Smash under Sakurai's leadership don't they?

Nintendo are doing a very good job with Switch in terms of regular high quality software output but at the same time the picture would look very different if they didn't have the two or three WiiU ports per year to fill out the possible software gaps.

It will be very interesting to see how they pivot as a business to prepare for the next hardware leap and the harsh realities regular $100 million budgets bring.

 

[beansontoast]

The real issue Nintendo will face in the near future imo is developing software for the next generation of hardware power. Going from a PS360 ballpark level machine (Switch) to an XB1/PS4 ballpark level machine, the push towards 4k (and the level of asset quality needed for incredibly high resolutions) as well as market trends for larger, more content rich Worlds means a large leap in development budgets (I think the PlayStation guy said development budgets we're doubling every gen recently) so a possible next gen exclusive open World Zelda could easily cost $100+ million and require a staff of over 500 developers.

This is not only an overall budget issue but also an issue of Nintendo eventually needing many, many times the number of development staff that they currently have. They're already having to pull developers away from Monolithsoft's projects to help with Zelda games. I also realise they can't go on a mass hiring spree all at once because as they've said in the past that could lead to lower quality across the board.

I do wonder if at some point (heading towards Switch 3) Nintendo will be forced to acquire a full development house to keep up the software output on future platforms. If they do then my money would be on Namco because of the good relationship they already have and the trust their developers now have from Nintendo higher ups. They basically develop Smash under Sakurai's leadership don't they?

Nintendo are doing a very good job with Switch in terms of regular high quality software output but at the same time the picture would look very different if they didn't have the two or three WiiU ports per year to fill out the possible software gaps.

It will be very interesting to see how they pivot as a business to prepare for the next hardware leap and the harsh realities regular $100 million budgets bring.

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On a similar note, it feels like now is the best time to experiment with new IPs. The financial risk with a new IP is only going to increase as time goes on, but the company has to do it to some degree in order to keep everything fresh.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

No there's not.

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What do you mean?

beansontoast

Totally agree. They're already doing a decent job on Switch. Now is the time to make more.

 

[SiG]

They release far more exclusive games than Sony or MS it's just the games are smaller projects which leads to many people "not counting" them in list wars.

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Speaking of list wars, people don't even seem to count the latest Paper Mario game. Are people here really that negative towards Nintendo's offering outside of the usual AAA space?

Then again, there was that other thread regarding appreciation for Ring Fit Adventure, so maybe it has more to do with their expectations for the franchise itself and not wanting to rely on "gimmicks".

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

What we really have to be curious about - is how does Nintendo respond to BOTW, Odyssey, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Splatoon, Smash Bros. and RFA moving forward. Basically their line of 20-10 million world wide (and 1 million + in Japan which Nintendo has traditionally regarded above much else). Essentially their biggest IPs at the moment (excluding Nintendo/TPC Pokemon games).

How does Nintendo invest those sales back into the development teams and following sequels?

Click to shrink...

Do you see EPD Tokyo doing a non-Mario game next?

Because if Nintendo releases a ROM collection of the early 3D Marios and then ports over 3D World this year, that's a lot of Mario for one year. If EPD Tokyo was releasing a new 3D Mario game... you would kind of expect it to be almost finished by now but Nintendo's two biggest games of the rest of this year are 3D Mario ports instead...

 

[nenned]

Do you see EPD Tokyo doing a non-Mario game next?

Because if Nintendo releases a ROM collection of the early 3D Marios and then ports over 3D World this year, that's a lot of Mario for one year. If EPD Tokyo was releasing a new 3D Mario game... you would kind of expect it to be almost finished by now but Nintendo's two biggest games of the rest of this year are 3D Mario ports instead...

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And I'm sure there is 2D Mario being worked on a well.

Maybe we're looking at:

2020- 3D Word Deluxe, Super Mario All-Stars 2
2021- New 3D Mario, Mario Golf
2022- 2D Mario, Super Mario Party 2

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

And I'm sure there is 2D Mario being worked on a well.

Maybe we're looking at:

2020- 3D Word Deluxe, Super Mario All-Stars 2
2021- New 3D Mario, Mario Tennis
2022- 2D Mario, Super Mario Party 2

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I'm just saying that I can't see a new 3D Mario launching in the first half of next year as that's way too many Mario platformers.

But the next 3D Mario launching late 2021 gives a full four year dev cycle which seems way longer than usual for this team.

 

[EAD Ninja]

This is not only an overall budget issue but also an issue of Nintendo eventually needing many, many times the number of development staff that they currently have. They're already having to pull developers away from Monolithsoft's projects to help with Zelda games. I also realise they can't go on a mass hiring spree all at once because as they've said in the past that could lead to lower quality across the board.

Click to shrink...

The development landscape of BOTW doesn't drastically change going to 4K, as much as Nintendo needing to follow the industry standard of doubling down on outsourcing assets. They involved Monolithsoft - probably for two reasons.
1. Nintendo doesn't seem interested in multiple expensive Monolith games happening at the same time. Especially when the returns aren't there. It probably made most sense for them to concentrate on trying to grow the Xenoblade brand, and using their other resources to assist on a money making Nintendo development project.
2. Monolith was also experienced with managing and leveraging contract developers from the myriad of Tokyo outsource and temp agencies.

With the shift to 4K, the asset work becomes a bigger expense. I think it's going to be crucial for Nintendo to invest or secure long-term contracts with East and South-East Asia firms (China, India, Malaysia, Singapore, etc.). That's part of the reason why Namco-Bandai and Koei-Tecmo have been good partners for the meanwhile.

This is something they need to address for all their AA/AAA IPs moving to 4K and beyond.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

Speaking of list wars, people don't even seem to count the latest Paper Mario game. Are people here really that negative towards Nintendo's offering outside of the usual AAA space?

Then again, there was that other thread regarding appreciation for Ring Fit Adventure, so maybe it has more to do with their expectations for the franchise itself and not wanting to rely on "gimmicks".

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I've never played a Paper Mario game and I'm looking forward to trying the new one.

EAD Ninja

Good points especially about outsourcing making more sense. Thanks for the input.

 

[laziboi]

The real issue Nintendo will face in the near future imo is developing software for the next generation of hardware power. Going from a PS360 ballpark level machine (Switch) to an XB1/PS4 ballpark level machine, the push towards 4k (and the level of asset quality needed for incredibly high resolutions) as well as market trends for larger, more content rich Worlds means a large leap in development budgets (I think the PlayStation guy said development budgets we're doubling every gen recently) so a possible next gen exclusive open World Zelda could easily cost $100+ million and require a staff of over 500 developers.

Click to shrink...

Switch actually has more in common GPU wise with the PS4 and Xbox One than PS360. The power gap is more similar to the PSP and PS Vita were in relation to their console counterparts. The Switch 2 will be the same in relation to the PS5 and Series X.

As for the increase in development budgets. It's true that AAA games get more expensive to make every year. But there isn't some unwritten rule that all games must cost $100 million each gen. Game budgets depend entirely on project scope and team sizes. Nintendo prefers working with more restricted budgets under a "Less is more" philosophy. Zelda is the only real exception to that rule because its a special occasion.

Remember, as game consoles get more powerful, they also get easier to develop for, so there's room for games of all scopes and sizes.

 

[TheMoon]

Switch actually has more in common GPU wise with the PS4 and Xbox One than PS360. The power gap is more similar to the PSP and PS Vita were in relation to their console counterparts. The Switch 2 will be the same in relation to the PS5 and Series X.

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we'll never get out of this whole where people stick to the raw numbers, dumping Switch into the 360 bucket.

 

[laziboi]

we'll never get out of this whole where people stick to the raw numbers, dumping Switch into the 360 bucket.

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And like I said, people conveniently ignore the fact that the PS Vita wasn't nearly as powerful as the PS3 in terms of raw numbers. But it's GPU and Screen size did a good job at disguising that fact, along with Sony's marketing. Nintendo's refusal to brag about specs cause many to assume the Switch is weaker than it actually is.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

we'll never get out of this whole where people stick to the raw numbers, dumping Switch into the 360 bucket.

Click to shrink...

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm in almost every Switch tech thread. I have friends who've worked on AAA ports for the console. I know the tech pretty well. In raw compute terms the console is much closer to last gen than even a standard XB1 and that's while completely ignoring the Pro, the X and the fact there's about to be two new consoles another order of magnitude more powerful than the base current gen machines released in a few months time.

Yes it's GPU is modern but the GPU is still 6x less powerful compute wise compared to a base XB1's GPU while also having less than half the CPU performance and half the RAM (at much, much slower speeds) of the base current gen consoles.

My point was once Nintendo take their next tech leap, development costs and staff needs are going to skyrocket compared to the sub $20 million games they mostly create for Switch. This is one of the main reasons I believe they went with the hybrid console meaning they were essentially staying in the WiiU development ballpark while also offering a unique selling point versus their competition.

laziboi

BotW was already around $100 million to develop (Miyamoto said it needed to sell 2 million to break even and first party sales generate between $40-$50 for the publisher at full price depending on if it's physical or digital).

Game development tools are definitely always improving but the sheer amount of high quality art assets you need for especially larger game Worlds are where most of the costs come from even ignoring the huge marketing costs at launch.

 

[laziboi]

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm in almost every Switch tech thread. I have friends who've worked on AAA ports for the console. I know the tech pretty well. In raw compute terms the console is much closer to last gen than even a standard XB1 and that's while completely ignoring the Pro, the X and the fact there's about to be two new consoles another order of magnitude more powerful than the base current gen machines released in a few months time.

Yes it's GPU is modern but the GPU is still 6x less powerful compute wise compared to a base XB1's GPU while also having less than half the CPU performance and half the RAM (at much, much slower speeds) of the base current gen consoles.

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The CPU is nothing special, obviously. But saying the Switch is only on the level of the 360 is a bit naïve. Again, the Switch power gap between Xbox One is closer to what the PS Vita was in relation to the PS3. Nobody called the Vita last gen, because Sony's PR made the system look more powerful than it actually was. Nintendo doesn't brag about the Switch's graphics, so the Switch just looks weaker than it actually is.

BotW was already around $100 million to develop (Miyamoto said it needed to sell 2 million to break even and first party sales generate between $40-$50 for the publisher at full price depending on if it's physical or digital).

Game development tools are definitely always improving but the sheer amount of high quality art assets you need for especially larger game Worlds are where most of the costs come from even ignoring the huge marketing costs at launch.

Click to shrink...

Not denying that. I'm just saying that not every game needs to be on the scale of BotW.

 

[Deleted member 18161]

laziboi

I didn't say Switch was on the power level of a 360. I said the Switch GPU in compute power (153 or 192gflops when handheld / 384gflops when docked) is much closer to the 360 (240gflops) and PS3 (200gflops) than the XB1 (1.3tflop) or PS4 (1.8tflop). It's obviously a much more advanced GPU in terms of feature set and engine compatibility.

Overall Switch is definitely inbetween generations mainly due to the massive increase it has over PS360 in RAM amount. RAM from what I've been told is the most important component in a console and it's large pool of RAM (in comparison to PS360) is the main reason Switch has ports of current gen games like DOOM, Dragon Quest XI and The Witcher 3.

Anyway this has gotten way off topic. Apologies.

 

[laziboi]

I didn't say Switch was on the power level of a 360. I said the Switch GPU in compute power (153 or 192gflops when handheld / 384gflops when docked) is much closer to the 360 (240gflops) and PS3 (200gflops) than the XB1 (1.3tflop) or PS4 (1.8tflop). It's obviously a much more advanced GPU in terms of feature set and engine compatibility.

Overall Switch is definitely inbetween generations mainly due to the massive increase it has over PS360 in RAM size. RAM from what I've been told is the most important component in a console and it's large pool of RAM is the reason Switch has ports of things like DOOM and The Witcher 3.

Click to shrink...

I do agree with that. I'm just pointing out that it has more in common with 8th gen graphics than 7th gen, even if its performance is closer to 7th gen. Again, the difference between the Switch and PS4/Xbox One is more like the difference between the PS Vita and PS3. Vita wasn't nearly as powerful as the PS3, but it's GPU, screen size, and marketing helped disguise that fact.

 

[SiG]

laziboi

I didn't say Switch was on the power level of a 360. I said the Switch GPU in compute power (153 or 192gflops when handheld / 384gflops when docked) is much closer to the 360 (240gflops) and PS3 (200gflops) than the XB1 (1.3tflop) or PS4 (1.8tflop). It's obviously a much more advanced GPU in terms of feature set and engine compatibility.

Overall Switch is definitely inbetween generations mainly due to the massive increase it has over PS360 in RAM amount. RAM from what I've been told is the most important component in a console and it's large pool of RAM (in comparison to PS360) is the main reason Switch has ports of current gen games like DOOM, Dragon Quest XI and The Witcher 3.

Anyway this has gotten way off topic. Apologies.

Click to shrink...

You might want to move discussion to the "Switch Pro in Early 2021" discussion thread:

Based on how tech has progressed since the Switch, how powerful could a Switch Pro in early 2021 actually be?

In regards to new hardware? Yes, absolutely they will be silent for the rest of the year. I could see a new revision being announced next summer at the earliest probably.

www.resetera.com

Meanwhile, we also haven't taken into account that one of their internal "garage" studios could be creating a new IP in the likes of Splatoon and ARMS. There's really no telling what they could come up next.

It's also very likely Nintendo might leverage on 3rd party connections a la Bandai Namco/Koei Temco aiding in some development of their own 1st party lineups. I am not sure if they're willing to make another $100 million blockbuster like BotW as it felt like a risky but innovative investment.

 

[TheMoon]

Nintendo and Paladin Studios reveal how they ended up working together on Good Job!

The Nintendo Direct Mini back in March treated fans to a surprise announcement and release. The office-themed puzzler Good Job! was revealed for Switch during the presentation, and then launched on the eShop immediately after. Good Job! wasn’t actually a project made entirely by Nintendo as...

nintendoeverything.com

"As part of an interview with Nintendo Everything, the two companies spoke about how they ended up coming together.

Paladin Studios lead producer Robert Abercrombie and Nintendo of America producer Takao Nakano told us

Abercrombie: The founder of Paladin (Derk de Geus) had been trying to get his foot in the door for around 10 years, and fortunately Nintendo wanted to proceed with one of our pitches and that was the start of Good Job! development.
Nakano: It's been a long time since we first met Paladin. I think it was one of those game events somewhere. I've played some of their smart device games before, and all of them have a very cheerful atmosphere, and I got the impression that they make their games with great care.
Also, I heard that Paladin had experience working with Japanese game publishers previously, so from that standpoint as well, I may have been more interested in Paladin as a game studio. Since then, we had been looking for an opportunity to work together.
In 2017, our Nintendo team had an opportunity to visit Paladin Studios and at that time we discussed further about working on a project together. Nintendo requested Paladin to work on an experimental game idea, and from that experiment project the base of Good Job! was born. After discussions between the two companies, we agreed to polish this "raw stone" into a product, and the full game development started.​

We'll have more from our interview with Nintendo and Paladin Studios regarding Good Job! very soon."

 

[laziboi]

Nintendo and Paladin Studios reveal how they ended up working together on Good Job!

The Nintendo Direct Mini back in March treated fans to a surprise announcement and release. The office-themed puzzler Good Job! was revealed for Switch during the presentation, and then launched on the eShop immediately after. Good Job! wasn’t actually a project made entirely by Nintendo as...

nintendoeverything.com

"As part of an interview with Nintendo Everything, the two companies spoke about how they ended up coming together.

Paladin Studios lead producer Robert Abercrombie and Nintendo of America producer Takao Nakano told us

Abercrombie: The founder of Paladin (Derk de Geus) had been trying to get his foot in the door for around 10 years, and fortunately Nintendo wanted to proceed with one of our pitches and that was the start of Good Job! development.​

Nakano: It's been a long time since we first met Paladin. I think it was one of those game events somewhere. I've played some of their smart device games before, and all of them have a very cheerful atmosphere, and I got the impression that they make their games with great care.​

Also, I heard that Paladin had experience working with Japanese game publishers previously, so from that standpoint as well, I may have been more interested in Paladin as a game studio. Since then, we had been looking for an opportunity to work together.​

In 2017, our Nintendo team had an opportunity to visit Paladin Studios and at that time we discussed further about working on a project together. Nintendo requested Paladin to work on an experimental game idea, and from that experiment project the base of Good Job! was born. After discussions between the two companies, we agreed to polish this "raw stone" into a product, and the full game development started.​

We'll have more from our interview with Nintendo and Paladin Studios regarding Good Job! very soon."

Click to shrink...

Nice insight. I'm interested in seeing what other western indies Nintendo will work with in the future.