Wonder how many indie games will try to reach the 8K checkmark.
"World's first 8K PS5 game" hell of a title for a dev.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread - MY ANACONDA DON'T WANT NONE
- Thread starter Phoenix Splash
- Start date
- Status
Wonder how many indie games will try to reach the 8K checkmark.
"World's first 8K PS5 game" hell of a title for a dev.
Might not be too hard. The Pro can run some PS2-level games at native 4K60, the PS5 should be able to push similar games to checkerboard 8K.
Out of curiosity, what data are you using to work out that 995 of users can't tell the difference?
Rendering techniques don't all scale linearly with resolution, and it's possible to combine different resolution buffers to create a final native 4K image.
Once again, developers will choose what is right for their titles. People are winding themselves up for no reason by stating what developers should or should not do with the potential of next-generation hardware.
It's perfectly feasible to imagine a 4K60or120fps 1vs1 arena shooter happily living alongside a 30fps title that uses 4KCB or dynamic resolution, and there's plenty of other paths for developers to go down.
Checkerboard 4K resolves a native 4K image. That's a fact. The only people who will complain are fanboys who want some kind of "gotcha" notch in their belt.
Besides, it didn't exactly work out for the guy who sued Sony over Killzone's resolution.
Three of the major companies like Ubisoft, capcom and DiCE always use CBR, or sort of, in their engine. No one has trolled about it or downplay their final result, from what I know.
Last edited:
I posted a few pages back but it bears repeating.
https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/8149-2019-tsmc-technology-symposium-review-part-i.html
The process node N5 incorporates additional EUV lithography, to reduce the mask count for layers that would otherwise require extensive multipatterning.
TSMC will be way ahead of Samsung at 5nm (typo in below graph, should say vs. 7nm, not 5nm)
- risk production started in March'19, high volume ramp in 2Q'20 at the recently completed Gigafab 18 in Tainan (phase 1 equipment installation completed in March'19)
- intended to support both mobile and high-performance computing "platform" customers; high-performance applications will want to utilize a new "extra low Vt"(ELVT) device
- 1.5V or 1.2V I/O device support
- an N5P ("plus") offering is planned, with a +7% performance boost at constant power, or ~15% power reduction at constant perf over N5 (one year after N5)
- N5 will utilize a high-mobility (Ge) device channel
With this in mind, it's pretty much a given that we get pro/x models of next gen consoles in 2023. I was not aware that jumps of this calibre were still possible. Maybe they will be at 3nm even.
The jumps from 28nm to 16nm were greater. By 2023 we should be on 5nm+ though.
Edit: to clarify, the claimed numbers are for mobile/ low power gains. HPC gains are always less due to power density and other reasons.
Last edited:
The negative PR that you talk about is console warriors on forums, most people dont care that games on xbox one x have a higher resolution than a ps4 pro, because the exclusive ps4 games look much better than a lot of the multiplatform gamesfor the general public.
I'm still at 1080p with the base PS4.
Native or non-native 4K won't matter since it will be a hefty bump regardless. The same will apply to most since there are more base PS4s out in the wild.
Native or non-native 4K won't matter since it will be a hefty bump regardless. The same will apply to most since there are more base PS4s out in the wild.
It made a difference at the beginning of this gen, there was resgate, 1080pr. You could argue that most ppl didn't care about x1 vs ps4 resolution, but it's the negative PR which is the harmful thing, if people read enough negative press it will effect them even if they dont fully understand what it is.
What is this? Theres nothing to spin about it. Native 4k is better than any form of reconstruction. Period. We can if we want discuss on how much good and close those methods are .
To me PS5 supports 8k as much as PS4 supports 4k. Possible through the output but never actually used. It's a useless point on a spec list.
It's a AMD patent isn't a "PS5" or "Anaconda" customization..it could be in both
It made a difference because:
1) the power gap between ps4 and xbox one was so big that developers had to lower the resolution on xbox one instead of lowering it by choice. And if devs are lowering the resolution by choice then it will be not native 4k on both the ps5 and the anaconda. Unless if the ps5 and anaconda gap will be like the ps4 xbox 1 gap again (which it wont).
2) at lower resolutions the jumps are more noticeable than higher resolutions. Also that doesnt account to the fact checkerboard 4k is still 4k while 900p is not 1080p
Here is a quote from a tech site when looking at the very similar Nvidia DLSS (Deep Learning Super-Sampling) technique: "You could think of it as an advanced upscaling technology similar to checkerboard rendering or temporal rendering, techniques game consoles like the PS4 Pro use to run games at "4K" while actually rendering them at lower resolutions. Theoretically, DLSS fixes a lot of the issues with checkerboard rendering, making it more suitable for PC gaming where the artefacts generated through checkerboarding are much more noticeable."
A lot of the Digital Foundry articles may have said that CBR was done well in many cases, but there were are also clear artifacts of it.
The major thing about this tech if you care about frame rates is that it can allow games to maintain higher performance when being output at higher resolutions, while still maintaining a strong level of quality above even that of current techniques.
4kcb is not native 4k
The pixels are not the same quality, they are an approximation.
The issue will be a marketing contradiction if Sony or ms say "4k 4k 4k" but give 4kcb its going to get some bad press, which is why it would be best for them to explain why they are doing it and why they think its better.
I don't know why you have issue with them explaining things and having an open marketing strategy.
But they already did exactly this when they released the Pro: 4K, checkerboard rendering and HDR.
Cerny won't talk (or barely) about 4K or CBR for PS5. He'll talk about super quick loadings, realistic ray tracing lighting and maybe higher framerates and adaptive framerates.
It could end up being on both, I'm referring to the PS5 secret sauce that Lisa Su mentioned on the interview, maybe she was talking about this.
I'm guessing you don't have a 1X or a high end PC and a Pro? You don't need to sit close to see the detail of a native 4K scene and there certainly is a massive difference between 1440p and 4K.
Play nothing but a native 4K (or 4K CBR even) game for a few weeks straight then load up that same game at 1440p and still tell us there isn't a big difference.
They are specialized cores that will break down a scene into grids to analyze whether or not a ray hits an object. It will then break that object down into more grids and so on until the core determines which pixels are hit with a ray before sending the information to the shader cores. The frame will then be passed to the Turing cores who then clean up the noise introduced by the rays.
Thank you. There is no one size fits all solution and we shouldn't be so focused on whether a developer uses a reconstructed technique or not. What potentially happens then is that people may start questioning the developers if their preferred technique is not used (e.g. "this game would look better if they used CBR" or "this game would look sharper is they went native"). We need to trust the developers to implement the best methods for their games.
SMH it resolves a native 4K image in a static scene but elements can break down once the scene is in motion creating artifacts. The people slamming 4K CBR as some ugly alternative are no different than people like you claiming CBR is the better route to take. So basically playstation gamers versus PC and Xbox gamers. It's no surprise that people's preferred platforms will shape their rendering preferences.
Still what you're saying is silly and missing context. I'm perfectly fine with CBR, games will still use the technique next gen and likely look great. However you're fooling yourself if you think it's the same as a native 4K game. It can be close, and surely AA techniques can further blur that line (no pun intended) but it's not the same. We shouldn't begrudge any developer that chooses a native technique over a reconstructed one, or vice-versa.
Because they already tried explaining it back in the pro conference, and it ended up confusing people more.
If they did it the way I described it would benefit them.
And its different to the pro.
Making PS5 game at 4kcb will allow for greater differences, it won't just be a change in resolution.
Resolution has been a pretty big topic this gen, it will be addressed next gen, good luck if they just try and sweep it under the rug.
I hope you and TheTruthofKayle won't be too "confused", when Microsoft starts using the exact same reconstructed 4K for their next-gen titles.
My thoughts are no different if MS uses 4kcb for there first party games, I even mentioned this in one of my posts lol, but the conversation has been about the ps5.
Huh? Games on Xbox already use reconstruction techniques for games.
My hope is that variable rate shading can be utilized on next gen consoles. It seems like a massive win and goes the same way of a almost non perceivable difference.
I want to remind the Xbone was priced higher and the weaker console aspect compared the ps4, was relatively important in the whole perspective of the things. Surely even at the same price why people should prefer the weaker?
But I bet whatever you want if it was cheaper, probably no one would have cared so much to the performance difference, and at least in uk/us, the sales could have been a quite different story.
Last edited:
Yeah but next gen MS will finally see the CBR light and begin using it because clearly CBR is the best mothod for all games.
...What?
What 5 billion transistors?
So how do I run x86 code on my Radeon? And will this general purpose h/w be better at it than my Ryzen?
No, but it looks like you do.
That's absolutely not what I've said.
Because it's not RT and because current RT (and future RT for that matter, for many years to come if not forever) will always be an "approximation". Hence the denoising and optimizations like BVH and hybrid systems combining RT/SSRs, RT/SMs, etc. All of this exist right now in those games we have which use RT and struggle to keep 30 fps in 4K on a 2080Ti while at it.
Well, good. Because right now anyone expecting wider usage of RT in next gen than what we see with DXR/RTX on PC is likely setting himself up for a disappointment.
This looks more in line with what we knew already about AMD's modifing GCN multiprocessors to be able to execute two waves per cycle in a VLIW2 fashion.
I really wonder how much the extra hardware in the pro is actually for when CBR is clearly something that can be done completely in software, down to weak hardware like the base Xbox One.
IMO, Sony / MS have no business mandating native 4K to any developers (even their own). The best thing they can do is to add a high enough base spec that native 4K60 can be delivered at a respectable IQ (eg current-gen level), and provide a variety of quality APIs that let developers pursue appropriate options for their creative vision.
Give them the best tools you can to work with and let them figure out what works best with their engines. I'd be surprised if this isn't the path they take.
Give them the best tools you can to work with and let them figure out what works best with their engines. I'd be surprised if this isn't the path they take.
...might wanna add "4K Native" & "4Kcb" to your gif.
I'm totally a neophyte in terms of actual technology, I've difficult time to understand what you're saying lol. I know public communication in previous gens was centred on numbers of polygons (aka high numbers = more details blah blah), I wonder if devs are getting close to the limits for this. Actual games are very detailled so is there any improvement we can expect in this area? Or are there others methods to replace polygons?
And what about of collisions? I watched Project Awakening trailer several times and I was very impressed with collisions detection, so could we see games to dwell further into that for next gen?
And what about of collisions? I watched Project Awakening trailer several times and I was very impressed with collisions detection, so could we see games to dwell further into that for next gen?
I don't think no one here to expect to see the same advanced RT of an high end pc on ps5. About the RT chats, you continue to argue about what is real RT and what isn't it. Highly probable Sony will use something which in your vocabulary you refuse to consider RT (my bet) but I doubt they will care about the specific semantic and they will continue to follow their strategies, named it RT support.
Last edited:
The only current gen games I've played are GTA 5, Detroit and Uncharted 4 during the last 4 years. Been busy with school and have a Playstation Pro.
Should I get an xbox one X at this point? Maybe I should save my xbox back log for the new next generation, so I can have a nice catalogue cause of backwards compatibility.
How likely is for next generation xbox to play xbox 360 games?
Should I get an xbox one X at this point? Maybe I should save my xbox back log for the new next generation, so I can have a nice catalogue cause of backwards compatibility.
How likely is for next generation xbox to play xbox 360 games?
My humble opinion is to wait for the next generation. Your Pro will more than tide you over until PS5 and X
The reason I made the comment is that I have no interest in a discussion from a year ago with the same sometimes ill informed arguments again. That discussion is not even worth the effort to create such a gif.
If you like in general the Xbox ecosystem and you care to have the best multiplat version on console, do it (if money are not an issue). Personally I have it and barely touched lately because I'm more comfortable to use the Pro. Sometimes difference are huge but most of the time we are talking of simple pixels counts though I admit in some case it's a notable leap over the Pro. But now which I know ps5 will be backwards I'm even less inclined to use it. But isn't it quite OT?
Last edited:
Well of course. The "simple" polygon counts will increase, there is no doubt. It's to confirm the obvious.
I don't blame you... we're in desperate needs of some fresh leaks / specs / official statements / interviews / policy documents/ E3 or something to add something fresh to this thread to give everyone something new to talk about though.
- Status