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Mass shooting at Virginia Beach Municipal Center (UP: 12 dead, 4 injured, see threadmark)

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Triggerhappytel

Triggerhappytel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,159
It's awful, but I'm becoming numb to this. I don't know what to say that hasn't been said before. America isn't going to change and these shootings are just a consistent regular occurrence at this point. If Sandy Hook didn't change anything it'll never change.

THErest said:
THIS!

Your gun is locked the fuck up in a safe. Dudes rush in, you got no time, you're fucked anyway.

Either that, or you are not a responsible gun owner as you, no doubt, claim in denial of statistics and facts.
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Yep, my dad has I think at least one rifle and one shotgun for hunting (UK) and he has to keep the guns locked in one safe and the bullets locked in a separate lockbox. In the event that someone did break into his house his guns would be goddamn useless anyway.
 
Untogether

Untogether

Member
Oct 29, 2017
350
Klyka said:
THAT is actually NUTS
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If you like statistics let's throw out some more. (I've mentioned some of these in another thread but I think they bear repeating.)

It is estimated that American civilians own 393 million firearms (Source: Washington Post). That is three times the estimated number of the stockpiles of the world's militaries (Source: Estimating World Military Firearms Numbers, Aaron Karp). Even if these numbers are inflated that is still an unbelievable statistic. They would have to be inflated by a factor of three just to see even parity between US civilians and every military force on Earth.

American civilians own 400 times more firearms than every law enforcement agency in the US combined.

In April and May 2018, American civilians purchased 4.7 million guns which is more than the entire stockpile of the US military.

In 2017 US citizens purchased 25.2 million guns, which is more than every law enforcement agency in the world combined (Source for all above: Stephen Gutowski freebeacon.com).

You can see the money involved and the pressures that brings when you consider the numbers above. Human lives just aren't worth this much, I'm afraid.
 
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THErest

THErest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,156
Klyka said:
We need to go further
Biometric guns
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This has also been in the works for years. They exist.

It might solve issues like having your gun used by someone who shouldn't be using it. Like a kid trying to kill someone. Or just goofing around.

But it does nothing to solve the aforementioned adrenaline issue. Great, now your gun is under your pillow, no safe required, kid can't shoot it. Now try not to shoot your wife/husband/kid/friend after they spook you awake when getting a glass of water in the dark.


The NRA has opposed legislation in favor of biometric guns, and I imagine the most paranoid gun owners, the ones that really truly believe they need them to defend their homes from invaders, would balk at the idea of introducing yet another point of possible failure.
 
Neithardt

Neithardt

Banned
May 22, 2019
68
It still amazes me how the US is the only country in the world where these guns are so readily available and worshiped at the same time. Where did this brainwashing even come from? Where guns are looked upon as this divine object needed for living?

The results, some total psychopathic monster running up to his workplace and shooting it up like the wild west.
 
RDreamer

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,115
Neithardt said:
It still amazes me how the US is the only country in the world where these guns are so readily available and worshiped at the same time. Where did this brainwashing even come from? Where guns are looked upon as this divine object needed for living?
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NRA propaganda and racism.

When someone wants to "protect their family" it's rooted in racist fear of black men coming to murder them and rape their wives, etc.
 
Unaha-Closp

Unaha-Closp

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,749
Scotland
America's gun fetishism is to blame. If your children, while at school, getting murdered isn't enough to wake you up from your delusions then no amount of Mass Shootings will. It's pointless to even say rip or anything to these as there will be one tomorrow and the next day and....
 
Nif

Nif

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,716
Breaking: Officials on Saturday identified the Virginia Beach gunman as DeWayne Craddock, a longtime municipal employee. Authorities said 11 of the slain victims were city employees and one was a contractor.
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Don't know if he'd been identified yet
 
Deleted member 21339

Deleted member 21339

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
Untogether said:
If you like statistics let's throw out some more. (I've mentioned some of these in another thread but I think they bear repeating.)

It is estimated that American civilians own 393 million firearms (Source: Washington Post). That is three times the estimated number of the stockpiles of the world's militaries (Source: Estimating World Military Firearms Numbers, Aaron Karp). Even if these numbers are inflated that is still an unbelievable statistic. They would have to be inflated by a factor of three just to see even parity between US civilians and every military force on Earth.

American civilians own 400 times more firearms than every law enforcement agency in the US combined.

In April and May 2018, American civilians purchased 4.7 million guns which is more than the entire stockpile of the US military.

In 2017 US citizens purchased 25.2 million guns, which is more than every law enforcement agency in the world combined (Source for all above: Stephen Gutowski freebeacon.com).

You can see the money involved and the pressures that brings when you consider the numbers above. Human lives just aren't worth this much, I'm afraid.
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Don't these stats kinda support the argument that despite the mass number of guns Americans own they actually DON'T use them that much?
 
Untogether

Untogether

Member
Oct 29, 2017
350
JB1981 said:
Don't these stats kinda support the argument that despite the mass number of guns Americans own they actually DON'T use them that much?
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I guess that depends on your definition. One of the metrics used is to look at the deaths per 100,000 population by any given cause as that ignores population numbers (because of course a country of 250m people will own higher pure numbers of firearms than a country of 8m, for instance) but instead look at the causality among equivalent numbers of population.

I went to wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate) so I'm not speaking absolutely to the source here, but the US comes 10th on the list of worldwide deaths per 100,000 at 12.21 per 100,000. So a victory, I guess?

For reference, Canada has a rate of 2.05, South Africa 8.3, UK 0.23, Ireland 0.8, Mexico 7.64 and Hong Kong 0.03.

The higher rate countries are all South American or Carribean with Swaziland (Southern Africa) being the other exception.

I guess you can draw something from that as despite by far the highest number of guns the equivalent death rates don't exactly correlate but I wouldn't necessarily equate the situation in the US to that in some of the countries that see higher death rates per population.
 
JetBlackPanda

JetBlackPanda

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,505
Echo Base
Reading about this earlier this morning and I come to this section.

"You see this on the news all the time, and you pray for the people and hope they're OK. But you never think it's gonna happen to you," said Megan Banton, who was in the building and barricaded with her co-workers. "I have an 11-month-old baby at home, and all I could think about was him and trying to make it home to him."

Never think it's going to happen to me is a HUGE reason why we can't pass any real meaningful legislation.
 
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WedgeX

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,326
Rampage

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,160
Metro Detriot
RIP
I see 12 people died. Horrible.

Is it 4-5 who are still in critical (one being a cop)? How many were physical injured? I am a bit confused from the few reports I've seen- I seem he shot all floors except the basement.
 
Miggytronz

Miggytronz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,642
Virginia Beach, VA
Rampage said:
RIP
I see 12 people died. Horrible.

Is it 4-5 who are still in critical (one being a cop)? How many were physical injured? I am a bit confused from the few reports I've seen- I seem he shot all floors except the basement.
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3 critical. Officer was release either last night or this morning. Officer took a round to his vest.

They have released the names of the victims and shooter.

The shooter used 2 .45 cal pistols with silencers and extended mags. Bought legally. He was a former National Guard Service member, engineering graduate at Old Dominion University. He was a engineering lead for projects here in Virginia Beach.

Motive has yet to be officially released but rumblings are that he had a issue at work. (Initial reports were he got fired but I believe that's been squashed).
 
Wetwork

Wetwork

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,607
Colorado
I don't understand how people ever get to the point of, "I am going to kill people". A single persons, I'm not saying it's right or rational- but at least it could be a crime of passion. But how do you ever get to, "I need to kill random, unassociated, unaffiliated people to my current struggles, and then I need to die as well."

The fuck is wrong with people. Keep the killer out of the media, we shouldn't even know his name
 
Stinkles

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Untogether said:
I guess that depends on your definition. One of the metrics used is to look at the deaths per 100,000 population by any given cause as that ignores population numbers (because of course a country of 250m people will own higher pure numbers of firearms than a country of 8m, for instance) but instead look at the causality among equivalent numbers of population.

I went to wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate) so I'm not speaking absolutely to the source here, but the US comes 10th on the list of worldwide deaths per 100,000 at 12.21 per 100,000. So a victory, I guess?

For reference, Canada has a rate of 2.05, South Africa 8.3, UK 0.23, Ireland 0.8, Mexico 7.64 and Hong Kong 0.03.

The higher rate countries are all South American or Carribean with Swaziland (Southern Africa) being the other exception.

I guess you can draw something from that as despite by far the highest number of guns the equivalent death rates don't exactly correlate but I wouldn't necessarily equate the situation in the US to that in some of the countries that see higher death rates per population.
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US CDC research on gun deaths is deliberately suppressed by nra lobbying so our numbers are woefully inadequate and warped by corruption and politics.


Another fantastic stat: we don't know how many police departments there are in the US.
 
cameron

cameron

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
23,864




Axios @axios

Responding to calls for gun control after Friday's mass shooting in Virginia Beach, Mick Mulvaney told NBC's Chuck Todd: "You're never going to make everything perfectly safe, but we're doing a lot better on enforcement." https://www.axios.com/virginia-beach-shooting-mick-mulvaney-gun-control-feb9da30-7be7-42e0-96c9-cb8447ad7426.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic …

10:49 AM - Jun 2, 2019



NBC News @NBCNews

After the latest mass shooting in the US, acting White House chief of staff cautions against getting "too deep into politics too soon," and asserts "that we are never going to protect everybody against everybody who is deranged." https://nbcnews.to/2WbghDe - @MeetThePress

10:36 AM - Jun 2, 2019
 
Mariolee

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,334
Maya Fey said:
the "too soon to bring politics into it" thing *must* be an NRA soundbyte guideline or something
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Whats wild is that they were called out by the Parkland survivors who wanted to talk about gun control right away and the Republicans STILL said it was too soon to "bring politics into it". TO THE SURVIVORS.
 
Shatty McKracken

Shatty McKracken

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,965
Neithardt said:
It still amazes me how the US is the only country in the world where these guns are so readily available and worshiped at the same time. Where did this brainwashing even come from? Where guns are looked upon as this divine object needed for living?

The results, some total psychopathic monster running up to his workplace and shooting it up like the wild west.
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There are many Americans that believe the gun is a symbol of freedom. Guns are what made the country free from British tyranny and guns are what will keep us free from our own country's tyranny. Thats it. It's that simple. It's ingrained into many young people from the time they first start to learn about American history.

The fallacy in all of that is that if the United States government wants to come for you, they will get you. There is nothing your little pistol or even assault rifle will do if they decide to roll a bunch of tanks up at your front door. The U.S. government has technology that can hit a fucking piss ant from 2000 miles away. They have drones that can hit you at night when your sleeping. Just ask many innocent Afghanis. What's crazy is that the same people who claim they need their guns to protect them from the government allowed that same government to develop the most advanced and destructive military industrial complex ever seen on this planet. They cheered them on as it happened. It's madness really and makes no logical sense. I mean if you really needed your guns to protect you from the government then why did you vote for people who made the government create such a vast arsenal?
 
YMB

YMB

Member
Nov 6, 2017
597
Shatty McKracken said:
There is nothing your little pistol or even assault rifle will do if they decide to roll a bunch of tanks up at your front door.
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That isnt how a fight with the government would go down. Most likely they would get to you quietly through surveillance while you goto work or the store or quietly in the middle of the night. Once things escalate to an all out fight things get messy. The government isnt going to bomb their own cities or their own civilians to get to a few insurgence. This is why insurgency is so dangerous and why we havnt "won" in places that used it. City fighting would come down to mraps and light armored vehicles and troops who can actually search homes and areas which are easy to take out especially when its legal for civilians to buy .50 cal AP Incendiary ammo. The whole NFA also goes out the window as well in that scenario which means explosives, surpressors, machine guns and sub compact auto's that can be covered up under a jacket for ambush tactics. These things are not hard to come by (you even had that 19yo collage student making auto sears for AR15's a few months back just because he could). The whole thing would be a nightmare, more so that the enemy tends to be intermixed with the military and bases surrounded by civilian structures.
 
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Skulldead

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,480
Usualy i saw that kind of news in Canada journals, but nothing on that accident.... This is truly horrifying too see how frequent these thing happen and become travial for international....
 

Deleted member 1086

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Oct 25, 2017
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Boise Area, Idaho
Don't live there anymore but I saw all the Hampton Roads media promoting people to wear blue shirts today in memory of the people lost(something that started with the staff at a school I believe?), so I'm wearing a blue shirt today in solidarity with my VA Beach family.

funnily enough it's a shirt from Cool Stuff out on Holland Road in Virginia Beach.
 
Miggytronz

Miggytronz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,642
Virginia Beach, VA
Dishwalla said:
Don't live there anymore but I saw all the Hampton Roads media promoting people to wear blue shirts today in memory of the people lost(something that started with the staff at a school I believe?), so I'm wearing a blue shirt today in solidarity with my VA Beach family.

funnily enough it's a shirt from Cool Stuff out on Holland Road in Virginia Beach.
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Yeah a school started it and it hit social media. I work at Newport News Shipbuilding and majority of shipbuilders are wearing blue. I live only a few miles from where the shooting occurred and hearing all the sirens heading towards the courthouse was surreal as hell. Knowing and seeing the Nightingale fly towards there and fly out gave me chills.

Yesterday me and my wife took our daughter to the memorial by the Courthouse to drop off flowers. Hard thing to do to tell your child what happened.

Memorial Growing
 
Pomerlaw

Pomerlaw

Erarboreal
Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,629
I remember 10 years ago here in Canada it was still a big thing when there was a shooting in the States. Now it barely makes the news and it doesn't shock people as much. I think the main reason as to why people don't talk about it as much is that we don't believe it will change anything.

How the fuck do you deal with things like this, when you know cowards and corrupt politicians won't change a thing! You deal with it by forgetting about it.

Truly sad!
 

Deleted member 1086

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NSA said:

Still no real motive or anything from the shooter. Wonder if anything will come out down the road.
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Think it was the New York Post that was reporting yesterday that he got into a couple different fights over the past few weeks and was acting hostile to several people recently.

edit: NYT has a little bit about it https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/us/dewayne-craddock-virginia.html
But a person close to Virginia Beach's city government, who was not authorized to speak publicly, said that the suspect had no history of behavioral problems until recently, when he had begun acting strangely and getting into physical "scuffles" with other city workers.

The person said that tensions had escalated in the past week, adding that the man had gotten into a violent altercation on city grounds and was told that disciplinary action would be taken.
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Deleted member 46493

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Neithardt said:
It still amazes me how the US is the only country in the world where these guns are so readily available and worshiped at the same time. Where did this brainwashing even come from? Where guns are looked upon as this divine object needed for living?
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Probably started with families and men going west by themselves around 200-300 years ago, particularly before western states were part of the USA. We inherited the pioneer culture that makes people want to fend for themselves and hate government intervention or think it's useless. Not sure what can be done about that.
 

Deleted member 2533

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YMB said:
That isnt how a fight with the government would go down. Most likely they would get to you quietly through surveillance while you goto work or the store or quietly in the middle of the night. Once things escalate to an all out fight things get messy. The government isnt going to bomb their own cities or their own civilians to get to a few insurgence. This is why insurgency is so dangerous and why we havnt "won" in places that used it. City fighting would come down to mraps and light armored vehicles and troops who can actually search homes and areas which are easy to take out especially when its legal for civilians to buy .50 cal AP Incendiary ammo. The whole NFA also goes out the window as well in that scenario which means explosives, surpressors, machine guns and sub compact auto's that can be covered up under a jacket for ambush tactics. These things are not hard to come by (you even had that 19yo collage student making auto sears for AR15's a few months back just because he could). The whole thing would be a nightmare, more so that the enemy tends to be intermixed with the military and bases surrounded by civilian structures.
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In 1985, Philly police dropped a bomb from a helicopter killing 11 members (including 5 under the age of 13) of the MOVE anarchist commune situated in a dense downtown area.
 
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