I mean it does technically just takes more steps but unless they can escape they would eventually get killed by AliothShe said that because there were Minutemen in the room, and she didn't want to reveal that pruning someone doesn't kill them.
I mean it does technically just takes more steps but unless they can escape they would eventually get killed by AliothShe said that because there were Minutemen in the room, and she didn't want to reveal that pruning someone doesn't kill them.
But something King Loki might use to his advantage in pruning other Loki's. Or could have created as a strategic advantage to begin with since he isn't the only magical being in the universe.Were they? They made it very apparent that magic doesn't work in the TVA pocket universe. Sylvie was even brought to Alabama by C15 so she could use her powers.
The TVA and their pocket universe is all Technology and Science, albeit the timey wimey kind; again not a Loki MO.
True, but I didn't think the poster meant it in that sense.I mean it does technically just takes more steps but unless they can escape they would eventually get killed by Alioth
Revonna still considers it a death sentence
No, just that one part of the branch. The TVA prunes the variants before a new timeline can develop- that's literally their whole mission.
So if you do something that could cause the timeline to diverge into another one, that's a "branch" and you become a "variant." The TVA gets alerted to the event and prunes every variant related to the "branch" before it can develop, and it's dumped into the void. The TVA then resets the timeline and whatever event caused the branch doesn't happen and the timeline restores to normal.
It's explicitly said several times in this episode that the TVA doesn't actually reset the timeline, they transfer the entire reality to the Void for consumption.
Read what i wrote again.
When a variant does something they're not supposed to (a nexus event), this creates a "branch" off of the sacred timeline. A branch isn't an entire reality yet- it's a lot more limited and localized. We can see "branches" arriving in the void during episode 5, they have a radius of a few hundred feet at best.
The white line is the sacred timeline. The orange splinters are branches to be pruned.
When the TVA arrives to prune the variant, they use a reset charge that dumps everything in the vicinity (the branch) into the void. When the branch is removed the timeline is "reset" back to the status quo of the sacred timeline, and the nexus event never happens. The timeline is "reset."
This explanation doesn't work for Sylvie or Old Loki. Their timelines were drastically different and they were allowed to exist up to a point. But we know the TVA isn't to be trusted.
Either their universes have different, parallel sacred timelines as well,
Yes. It's that. There's still hundreds, if not thousands of valid timelines forming the strand of the sacred timeline, some of them potentially being vastly different. As long as no Nexus event is happening causing a huge timeline branch, the TVA has no issues.This explanation doesn't work for Sylvie or Old Loki. Their timelines were drastically different and they were allowed to exist up to a point. But we know the TVA isn't to be trusted.
Either their universes have different, parallel sacred timelines as well, or simply their variations on reality didn't threaten the TVA / guy behind the curtain until something very specific was registered as a "Nexus Event" (An event that specifically threatens the TVA / boss event / prime timeline).
Yes. It's that. There's still hundreds, if not thousands of valid timelines forming the strand of the sacred timeline, some of them potentially being vastly different. As long as no Nexus event is happening causing a huge timeline branch, the TVA has no issues.
Old Loki literally says that he feigned being dead and then lived isolated on a planet. So he didn't create a nexus event because he didn't interfere with the sacred timeline. He got caught when he tried to rejoin civilization.This explanation doesn't work for Sylvie or Old Loki. Their timelines were drastically different and they were allowed to exist up to a point. But we know the TVA isn't to be trusted.
I still don't see any evidence that there's multiple timelines in the MCU (or, I guess, more relevant here, that any of the characters we've seen originated from unique timelines rather than "branches" trimmed off of the Sacred Timeline).
"This universe is only one of an infinite number. Worlds without end. Some benevolent and life-giving. Others filled with malice and hunger. Dark places, where powers older than time lie, ravenous... and waiting. Who are you in this vast multiverse, Mr. Strange?"―Ancient One to Stephen Strange
Yes. It's that. There's still hundreds, if not thousands of valid timelines forming the strand of the sacred timeline, some of them potentially being vastly different. As long as no Nexus event is happening causing a huge timeline branch, the TVA has no issues.
Hypothetically there's a Kang behind every TVA in every universe trying to make sure that Nathaniel Richards always becomes Kang in that universe, and what causes Nathaniel Richards to become Kang could be extremely different from universe to universe, so every "Sacred Timeline" could look very different in each reality but it's the one that's being manipulated into being the only timeline in that reality. So it's THE one Sacred Timeline but there are many different versions of it - that all end in the desired outcome to the person overseeing it.
I think a lot of the issue here is coming from confusion between "universe" and "timeline" they aren't the same thing. A universe is a reality. A timeline is a series of events within that reality.
There are multiple universes in the MCU that make up the "multiverse" and these universes can be VERY different. The Ancient One says this in Dr. Strange, and the TVA says the same thing in episode 1. That's not up for dispute.
Where the TVA comes in is that they only want events to end one specific way within each universe. That's a timeline. Any deviation from a series of events per UNIVERSE results in a branch (that could potentially splinter into a second timeline in that universe) and the TVA immediately comes to prune the branch as soon as it happens. A nexus event can't last "for years" because we see on screen that a branch rapidly grows toward a "danger zone" that the TVA can't stop if it's left alone for too long.
The Ancient One spoke about them like they are one in the same. "Now this may benefit your reality..." 2012 Ancient One speaking to astral Bruce, referring to his timeline/universe as opposed to the one he visited to obtain the time stone.I think a lot of the issue here is coming from confusion between "universe" and "timeline" they aren't the same thing. A universe is a reality. A timeline is a series of events within that reality.
I've interpreted the Ancient One's use of "universe" in the first Doctor Strange to be something more akin to "dimension" - which includes things like, say, the Dark Dimension, the Quantum Realm, the weird trippy realms that Strange visits when he gets knocked into his Astral form.
Meanwhile, the spiel in episode one refers to TIMELINES - I don't think the multiversal war they're referring to includes things such as the Dark Dimension. It implies specifically that there were once many unique timelines, and there is now one single timeline, which does include multiple dimensions (naturally, the TVA itself is in one separate from our own) but doesn't include multiple parallel worlds caused by butterfly effects.
There's no one visiting the Lamentis from Universe 73, there's no one saying "Loki from Reality X,"
there's no evidence that Sylvie was hiding in apocalypses from her home universe as opposed to the mainstream MCU
I think it just lines up that she's... our Loki, just born a girl and part of an unusually long nexus event, the circumstances of which haven't really been explained.
The Ancient One spoke about them like they are one in the same. "Now this may benefit your reality..." 2012 Ancient One speaking to astral Bruce, referring to his timeline/universe as opposed to the one he visited to obtain the time stone.
In Avengers: Endgame, the Ancient One explains to Banner that each of the Infinity Stones help keep the core timeline in place. But if the Avengers remove them, they'll create splinter timelines that would hypothetically each continue alongside the original one.
I think you meant Endgame in your first sentences and she didn't say timeline, she said reality. She never refers to her hypothesized branched difference in events as a timeline. Bruce used 'timeline' and 'reality' interchangeably. If 'reality' and 'timeline' mean the same thing in this context, I don't see why 'universe' also doesn't.In Infinity War she spoke of "timelines" like the TVA does, not universes. The Avengers in Endgame were moving through time via the Quantum Realm, but not across universes. If Bruce took the gem, HIS timeline would benefit (because you can't change your own past through time travel that way, it's fixed) but taking the gems would create a splinter timeline in which disaster occurs because the infinity stone wasn't present. In essence, She's explaining that allowing Bruce to take the time stone would cause a Nexus Event, which are the things the TVA does not want.
Bruce promising to bring the stones back at the point he took them after they get used would prevent the Nexus event since the stones never left, and no splinter timeline gets created.
This seems the likeliest conclusion. Can Loki change? He will be offered the chance to become a ruler, the thing he has always wanted, his glorious purpose, his greatest vice.The scene of Loki on the golden throne looks like a variation of Asgard. We already know Loki with his new dagger is fighting inside the dark halls of a purple-ish place at the end.
Personally I think the throne scene might be a vision. Perhaps Loki is offered a timeline in which he gets everything he wanted to try and make him turn on Sylvie at the end. I mean they've set up a final moment of temptation for him to do just that - Sylvie is concerned about it. Loki tried to reassure himself as much as her that he wouldn't do it.
The quantum realm is not a universe, it's an area where all time and space break down and the rules no longer apply. The "dark dimension" is where Dormammu happens to be, and in the first Dr. Strange film they clarify that Dormammu has been taking over dimensions LIKE the one the MCU is in, which spreads the Dark Dimension further.
Don't know what to say here except I disagree. The narrative in both series makes it clear that multiple universes exist.
Watch episode 1 again:
MCU Loki is identified as Variant L1130 from Sector 1900-2099. "Sector 1900-2099" being the reality he's from.
Sylvie had a datapad and could have gone anywhere in reality the TVA can go.
and you would be wrong. Episode 2 explains that EVERY Loki is distinct. There's nothing special about MCU Loki.
There's been plenty of foreshadowing that a Loki would want to overthrow the TVA and take it over and rule. It's conceivable that one of them would be successful.
I mean, a lot of this is drawing the bullseye around the arrow.
- "Sector 1900-2099" is clearly the sector of time he's from; i.e. between 1900AD and 2099AD. (Why they're using Earth dates, who knows; same reason they look like a 70s office building.)
and she didn't say timeline, she said reality. She never refers to her hypothesized branched difference in events as a timeline. Bruce used 'timeline' and 'reality' interchangeably. If 'reality' and 'timeline' mean the same thing in this context, I don't see why 'universe' also doesn't.
I don't know if a timelord Loki is necessarily a villain. If maintaining the Sacred Timeline prevents an evil like Kang or something worse happening as a result of a multiversal war this could be an altruistic but flawed motivation. As you put it, the ones most fit to rule are often the ones who don't want to.Here's where I would disagree. It's shown that every Loki inevitably self-sabotages and fails because they do not trust anyone. Getting past that (as MCU Loki and Sylvie do, and Classic Loki probably does) requires a certain level of emotional growth that takes Loki out of villain territory.
Or to put it another way, a loki that was competent enough to conquer all of time and space by definition wouldn't want to.
No it isn't, because both Thor is 1500 years old and Loki is 1000 years old. Loki was born in 1000AD, not 1900 AD. And he "dies" in Infinity War which is a LONG time before the year 2099. "Sector" isn't meant to refer to a sector of time.
Everything else you've written is off base and ignores what's already established.
I mean that was pretty much confirmed in episode 1 or 2 since Loki specifically pointed out that the TVA should be going after the Avengers rather than him since they're the ones who changed things. They simply replied something to the effect that it was the intended path of the Sacred Timeline.Essentially they are preventing "alternate" timelines that go against their plan to exist.In a way there isnt one unique Sacred Timeline, and more like, One Unique sacred plan for a timeline
I don't know if a timelord Loki is necessarily a villain. If maintaining the Sacred Timeline prevents an evil like Kang or something worse happening as a result of a multiversal war this could be an altruistic but flawed motivation. As you put it, the ones most fit to rule are often the ones who don't want to.
But that might require more exposition than the show would be able to give it. I'm still convinced it's a loki with a Kang like figure after it mostly because a lot of the Kang imagery is in the void where things go to die.
What? He's "from" Sector 1900-2099 because he was taken "from" the year 2012, when the events of Avengers take place. There's literally no reason to assume they're grouping universes by sector - it's pure conjecture. Neither of us have anything to backup that assertion, but at least mine follows logically.
You're stating a lot of things as objective fact without providing any evidence beyond "trust me, I'm right." Why should I trust your interpretation? Give me quotes, written documents, word of god, some hard stuff.
are you saying that in this franchise, sometimes when a character says reality they mean timeline, and sometimes when they say reality they mean universe? that makes things a little too convoluted. in my opinion it just makes more sense to believe the Avengers created alternate universes just by time traveling. I think of it this way:"reality" in those instances means "timeline" by default, because the Quantum realm only allowed movement through time, not between different universes. If they're talking about splinter realities (which was mentioned) then those are by definition splinter timelines, not totally different universes.
I'm really not sure this is true. If he's a Variant at all, which I don't think he is, the TVA left him alone for thousands of years. Why would they do that unless the act of surviving Thanos isn't what made him a Variant, but choosing to leave self-imposed exile was?
Protag Loki has legitimate beef no arguments there and I think that sets up an interesting conflict. I don't think a theoretical timelord loki is controlled by Kang, I think that loki would be preventing Kang's rise to power. So the conflict is then Protag Loki/Sylvie want to break free of this pre-determined fate as dictated by Timelord Loki, but in so doing would cause incalculable suffering by ensuring a Kang comes to power. I think it would be more interesting to have the real final conflict of the series be a philosophical argument than fisticuffs (because the fights haven't been the best while the writing's been really good).Whoever is running the TVA is assumed to be villainous (at least by Loki's standards) because any time a Loki attempts to change himself into something other than a villain, that Loki is pruned because the "sacred timeline" has dictated that Loki must be a failure in order to inspire other, better people. That's his beef there.
Seems unnecessarily complicated to have a loki controlled by Kang instead of just having Kang. I mean- where would Kang be hiding? You're already at the end of all spacetime.
the TVA is actively preventing Kang/Immortus/whatever from existing or at least coming to power, hence all the Kang imagery floating around the void.
Loki explains it:
"Reset charges prune the affected radius of a branched timeline, allowing time to heal all its wounds. Which sounds like a nice way of saying disintegrate everything in its vicinity."
Reset charges "prune the branch" dumping everything in the immediate radius into the void.
This is debatable based on what we see of things arriving after pruning. The largest thing we saw arrive was a battleship. If entire universes were being dumped into the void, it'd be pretty much entirely covered in freshly pruned matter all the time.This is how the TVA told Loki it works.
That was revealed as a lie. In this most recent episode Selvie, Boastful Loki, and Ravonna all confirmed that what really happens is the entire branch reality is sent to void.
And Selvie has been saying this all along.
Part of why I really don't like this show is that too much of it is expositional and calls into question the events of previous installments in this franchise. Endgame is arguably the most important installment, and the newest storytelling concept (time travel) is a major factor of this tv show. Some of the questions I had from episode 2 onward are still muddy in the waters with both what we have seen, and what we have been told (through dialogue).This is debatable based on what we see of things arriving after pruning. The largest thing we saw arrive was a battleship. If entire universes were being dumped into the void, it'd be pretty much entirely covered in freshly pruned matter all the time.
I think between the explanations and what we've actually seen, the pruning only extends as far as the timeline changes. We've seen the pruning charges go off and it destroys things involved in the timeline branch, but the ground and things like that are not pruned, so it's clearly picky about what it prunes.