I imagine he just keeps a closet full of Jonathon Majorses on ice to transfer his consciousness to.
Marvel Studios' Loki |OT| See You Soon (All of Season 1 is on Disney+)
- Thread starter Neoxon
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- Entertainment Comics OT
Yeah he's either cloning himself or kidnapping Nathaniel Richardses from other universes/timelines
And that tech was built into his helmet - in case you're wondering if this specific Immortus could survive Sylvie, nope
Don't know if he's smug enough to play the jerk that is Iron Man 2022
Right like even if you don't know the comic lore the finale still demonstrates a lot of character stuff that has been built up over the course of the show so it's not like it was an 'only for comic fans" type of episode. Whether it's well executed or not is obviously ymmv.
I disagree that it's bad lore for a Loki episode. He Who Remains built the TVA - explains why he built the TVA, then offers the Loki's a chance to run the TVA. Like everything he says is in service of the Loki series. It affecting the larger MCU is a byproduct, not the main concept.
How are humans not regarded as the most dangerous creatures in the multiverse lol. Just a normal (ok genius) lil human from the 31st century, goes on to destroy most of the multiverse and command control over everything, to the point where infinity stones mean nothing to them. Like, where is galactus during all this? Is this immortus really powerful enough to kill celestials++?
My only complaint about the show's finale is that it wasn't long enough. When I saw the runtime was shorter than episode 5 I let out an audible "Boo".
I could listen to He Who Remains exposition dump for far longer than he did, which was most of the episode. I also didn't care for the multiple cliffhangers. Waiting until the next Dr. Strange movie is waaaay to long to get some answers. With the only tease being that there will be a 2nd season. Coolcoolcool.
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I could listen to He Who Remains exposition dump for far longer than he did, which was most of the episode. I also didn't care for the multiple cliffhangers. Waiting until the next Dr. Strange movie is waaaay to long to get some answers. With the only tease being that there will be a 2nd season. Coolcoolcool.
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Man, I can't wait for the Fantastic Four with all of this going on. With Reed having to deal with the fact that his descendant is wrecking havoc across the multiverse, then you add Franklin into the mix... if we don't get God Emperor Doom within the next 10 years, I riot.
We are on the same wavelength. Imagine a series that kept that same level of character focus as episode 3. Once Loki met his other variants and they all just turned out to be gimmicks with neither really questioning the other outside of Old Loki's lore dump, I knew where things would end.
It's all relative. Kang is crafty, smart, and can travel through time. He's not super powerful, he's just relentless.
You may not have liked it but it was the perfect season finale. It challenged the two protagonists, with one succeeding while the other failed, it established the antagonist for the next season and the MCU as a whole, it left both protagonists on a cliffhanger that sees them separated and on seemingly different paths and we have no idea what direction those paths are in, it answered a lot of questions and left us with many more... It sets up a second season so well that it's difficult to see how it could be seen as crap.
To be totally honest with you, the only people that don't like the finale seem to be the people that insisted for weeks that it had to be a Loki behind everything and aren't happy that they were way off base.
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I got several quotes of people telling me they didnt know anything about Kang and enjoyed it. Thats great, but Im with you. Without next day internet research, most viewers wont even know Kang's name. My wife and daughter were like "that just ended with a giant conversation and then a forced fight".
It seems like watching a whodunnit and finding out the killer was a guy not introduced until the last 15 minutes, which is kind of underwhelming. Im down for season 2, just felt like a fizzle until the shot of the conquerer statue in the library.
From a narrative standpoint, just a weird choice to make the last ep an introduction with large amounts of exposition.
I got several quotes of people telling me they didnt know anything about Kang and enjoyed it. Thats great, but Im with you. Without next day internet research, most viewers wont even know Kang's name. My wife and daughter were like "that just ended with a giant conversation and then a forced fight".
It seems like watching a whodunnit and finding out the killer was a guy not introduced until the last 15 minutes, which is kind of underwhelming. Im down for season 2, just felt like a fizzle until the shot of the conquerer statue in the library.
From a narrative standpoint, just a weird choice to make the last ep an introduction with large amounts of exposition.
Just like Vision said, "Our very strength invites challenge. Challenge incites conflict. And conflict breeds catastrophe."
Also, it's an introduction to a character that can't be defeated in this show. Which is the dumbest thing to do for a TV series that's supposed to keep going after this. What's the point of Season 2 when we already know for a fact Kang has to stick around for a bunch of movies and not get truly defeated in any of them either?
If this was a limited series and the show was just over now, okay. Lead into dumb MCU metaverse bullshit. Fair enough. But why should we keep watching this show when the central conflict by its very nature cannot be resolved within its own confines?
Right, but we're sort of hitting the point where you have to wonder why the TVA matters to Loki at all? It matters to Sylvie, for sure - they're her enemy. But Loki? It's just an obstacle, something for him to try and overthrow, something that puts up a wall for him. It's an excuse for him to be thrown into these situations where he's seeing his life laid out, and seeing other versions of himself that went down different paths. The origins don't matter to him or his character arc, just that final choice. The lore dump is for the audience.
The "TVA stuff" and "Loki character stuff" are essentially two different pillars of the show, and neither really needs the other.
We talked about this quite a bit last night in my house. I don't know what show you guys were watching but Madlaughter and I were watching the same show because we came to the same conclusion about where the characters started and where they finished.
The TVA matters because they spent 6 episodes building up Loki's relationship's with Sylvie - who the TVA matters a ton to, and Mobius who Loki really cares about. The TVA helps Loki grow. They throw him back to an alternate TVA where Mobius doesn't recognize him, and he's crushed by it. Like, this TV series is about Loki being involved with the TVA - all of that is important.
Like, just because the TV show is called Loki, doesn't mean the TVA isn't important.
Don't you see? You have to set your expectations based on casting calls (to know this is the same actor that will play Kang) and executive interviews. That's the real MCU.
No chance of this. The impact of Jane getting Thor powers is completely lost if it's a brand new character, rather than one we first met a decade ago. It throws out the relationship between her and Thor too.
It will 100% be our Jane.
I now feel really confident about I next villian in the MCU since Thanos is gone. Jonathan Majors' debut last night was incredible and I want to see more of him and his acting.
I actually really like that our introduction to Kang in the MCU is an insane version from the end of time. One, his unhinged ranting provided a variety of insights into Kang's motivations and personality. Two, it leaves the viewer not knowing what to expect from a "normal" Kang who is in full command of himself and hasn't given up on his ambitions.
For instance, one might presume it was only this Kang, TOWR, who decided that squatting in a manor in the void forever, was his destiny. Other Kangs might have very different goals in mind.
The One Who Remains is simultaneously a deep look at Kang, yet only a tiny teaser of what is to come.
That said, in the Marvel universe you figure if a time traveler really tried to assassinate a cosmic entity or two, they'd be fucked. Celestial entities would make them a priority target.
Though as for the Infinity Stones, I think the show is following the comic book lore than an Infinity Stone only has power in the universe it is from. Take it to another, or outside of reality (where the TVA is) and it can't connect to the juice. So the TVA isn't really more powerful than an Infinity Stone - their HQ is just safely out of range.
For instance, one might presume it was only this Kang, TOWR, who decided that squatting in a manor in the void forever, was his destiny. Other Kangs might have very different goals in mind.
The One Who Remains is simultaneously a deep look at Kang, yet only a tiny teaser of what is to come.
Time travel technology is always god-tier broken balance. Any loser with a time portal can go back to the right moment, step on a butterfly, and prevent a god from being born.
That said, in the Marvel universe you figure if a time traveler really tried to assassinate a cosmic entity or two, they'd be fucked. Celestial entities would make them a priority target.
Though as for the Infinity Stones, I think the show is following the comic book lore than an Infinity Stone only has power in the universe it is from. Take it to another, or outside of reality (where the TVA is) and it can't connect to the juice. So the TVA isn't really more powerful than an Infinity Stone - their HQ is just safely out of range.
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It's a weird performance. Not everyone likes really eccentric performances like that. I still don't know how I feel about it. It's hard to take the character seriously or believe anything he says when so much of his performance feels like an improv comedy bit gone rogue.
Technically, if someone subscribes to the late 90s-early 00s ideals that "super hero costumes can't work in movies" when the MCU's proven the can (with tweaks here and there, but not "just go grounded, black leather uniforms..."), to hold on to that belief IS being stuck in the past. The late 90s-00s were a LONG time ago (can you believe that now we are talking about the 00s and people from that era holding onto "old ways", nostalgia and looking back with "rose-tinted glasses"? Topical with this show, but time don't stand still, folks. Time moves on even of people refuse to do so.).
I noticed that too.
Each episode of What If...? is going to probably represent a different alternate timeline. Also, all the branches are likely MORE than what we see on that screen. The edges are cut off, meaning there's timelines and the past and the future of that focused part of the timeline.Based on this:
...looks like 10 movies and 15 D+ shows for Phase 4.
Whole bunch of sub-branches growing past the red lines too.
Yeah, it's important to people that are important to Loki, but again, to him, the main character, it's tangential.
Like, Lamentis is also important to Loki - it's an obstacle for him and Sylvie to overcome, a challenge for them to face and grow together. But do we need all the lore about it? Does it matter who is in charge of the place, or what its origins are, or what happens after they leave? No, it's just a random planet.
The TVA as a setting is important, it's the narrative hook. But the details of that setting aren't. Considering the following: it turns out the Time Keepers were really in charge, and the video he watched in Episode 1 was mostly true. They say, hey, if you kill us, it'll unravel time and chaos reigns. Very short, 5 minute conversation. Does that change anything at all about the character arcs for Loki or Sylvie?
Very distant. Nathaniel Richards is a distant distant descendant of one of Reed's dad's OTHER kids. Like great^50 grand-nephew.
The whole mystery of this show is why is the TVA a thing and who did it. That's why it's different than Lamentis. It's not just a setting, it's the driving force behind everything in the show. If you don't want to know the story or reasons behind the TVA, that's fine, but to act as if it doesn't matter to this show is just silly.
dunno what folks who didn't like it were expecting?
It's like if they don't get the most cookie cutter basic hand holding they out
"But but I don't know who this guy is despite the show being about whos been behind the TVA since ep 1. I want it to be about Loki, dangit, it has his name on the tin!!!"
It's like if they don't get the most cookie cutter basic hand holding they out
"But but I don't know who this guy is despite the show being about whos been behind the TVA since ep 1. I want it to be about Loki, dangit, it has his name on the tin!!!"
Fun story, Kang went back in time once to trick a younger, dumber Thor into drunk-fighting Apocalypse and disguised as Loki, he guides Thor to enchanting his axe Jarnbjorn to be able to kill pierce the Celestial Armor that Apocalypse wears. Then steals the axe in the present day and gives it to the children of Apocalypse in the future in order to murder a Celestial. Then the Celestials take revenge by destroying the Earth and Odin blames Thor for it, and he goes to Kang for help to undo the mistake lol
it's a reason to give Loki a reason to give a shit about regular people and become a hero. this is the same Loki who is days removed from murdering innocent humans for fun, and now he is appalled by the idea of a self-serving universal dictator who takes free will away from everyone but himself, and was willing to sacrifice his life to Sylvie in order to stop her from just potentially making things worse
I never said it doesn't matter to the show, or that I don't like it. I said it doesn't matter to Loki - the character - and his narrative arc. That his story of character growth and the story of the mystery of the TVA aren't really integrated together, and that I get how, if you're here for the Loki stuff, spending so much time on Kang would be a bummer.
So timelines are new universes, which is weird cause well Infinity Stones aren't meant to work in other universes but when the Avengers Time Heisted they did it from technically another universe which means the stones shouldn't have worked. I still think MCU cocked up time travel.
Oh yeah I know I meant that it would be more mechanical than just looking like his face was painted blue lol
The secret to time travel is that it's impossible to actually do it well. All time travel plots fall apart under scrutiny.
oh gotcha. it will probably look like some kind of digital filter rather than blue face paint
As a casual MCU fan with no familiarity with the comics and not a particularly deep engagement with this overall storyline, I'm a bit confused about whether this conclusion is setting the groundwork for characters like Deadpool, the X-Men, the F4, and the alleged Spidey "variants" to be introduced via parallel realties - or if the fallout from this is going to be largely background noise and more limited to Loki storyline.
I mean, it seems very big. But I also could be reading too much into it.
I mean, it seems very big. But I also could be reading too much into it.
it means a ton for Doctor Strange In The Multiverse of Madness, we know that much. Since Strange also appears in Spider-Man it stands to reason that it could be the first example of the Multiverse being smashed open that we get to see MCU heroes having to deal with.
But on top of that, Kang is also heavily involved in the early Young Avengers comics so it's highly likely that he'll be the impetus for their formation in the MCU
Yeah but instead of just fucking up time travel they fucked up the multiverse in a sense.
they are 1000 years apart from each other so it doesn't really mean much but I bet it happens if they want to make the connection in the movies
Bad acting and "looks like a TV show" have been the typical go-tos when people who just don't like it want to sound like they have valid criticism. I see where PlanetSmasher is coming from though
I wonder If due to what's happened we'll suddenly see whomever is cast as Wolverine suddenly appear alongside Steve Rogers as a Howling Commando or if Mainline timeline remains the same and Howling Commando Logan would be part of a separate timeline? I wonder if the TVA will be involved with Deadpool crossing to the MCU? 🤔
This is absolutely massive. Your instincts are pretty good here. Spider-Man will be the first movie to explore this stuff most likely.
i don't care what they do to make it work, but I want the prime MCU to now be rewritten so that stuff that couldn't appear before due to rights issues, was there the whole time now thanks to Kang and the multiverse being freed
Immortus would have seen Reed and Doom as threats to his plan, so he removed them from the MCU before it ever even existed. It wasn't about rights all along!
And yes - we see a flashback to Captain America & The Howling Commandos and Logan was one of the men Steve freed alongside them and Bucky!
In the comics, humans are often considered the most dangerous species, despite not being as advanced yet. There's a whole series, Avengers Forever, devoted to it. And Kang is central to it.
I can live with my theories being wrong, but I thought it was too hefty and honestly I didn't find it good.
yep and the Avengers Forever: Destiny Wars comic was where Kang and Immortus were fighting over the timeline to make sure Nathaniel Richards always becomes one of them, and at the time Immortus was a servant of He Who Remains and the Timekeepers until he gathered a team of time-displaced Avengers to help overthrow them. They went from that to having Immortus being behind the Timekeepers/TVA in the MCU which makes him much more threatening.
Yeah, like...actual bad acting is pretty rare in performances of this size and budget. We don't have a Sam Worthington on our hands here. Majors is clearly making a lot of intentional choices, but the weirdly comedic timbre of his delivery doesn't always seem to mesh wth the level of gravitas these scenes seem to want to have.
On one hand, it feels intentional - the director wouldn't let him riff like that the whole time without purpose - but on the other hand it does make the tone of the episode feel very uneven. Some people are gonna love it, some people are gonna hate it. And some people are gonna be like me and just kinda sit in the middle going "I see what they were going for, I just don't know how I feel about it".
Eh. If the entire show didn't screech to a halt to drown itself in MCU metaverse bullshit for literally half an hour, it wouldn't have been as bad. I just don't care about 90% of the movies we're getting moving forward and I wanted this show's season finale to feel like a season finale for this show, not a post-credits scene for a Marvel movie I didn't watch setting up another Marvel movie I don't want to watch.
It feels like we just went into a midseason break.